Naturally Nocturnal Humans

reply to post by Nightflower


Pretty light sensitive yes! I find myself squinting a hell of a lot in the day, and never really have lights bright, candles are great! I even have some electronic blue light ones, because I find the white light a little more distracting!

I block all light into my bedroom with a blackout blind and always tend to shut the blinds downstairs in the daytime!

This...is totally me. I can't even usually remember the first few hours of the day when I wake up in the morning. I go to morning classes at college and then I get home around noon and I literally fall asleep. The sun even hurts my eyes so I wear sunglasses all the time. I am wide awake at night and the doctor keep giving me Ambien to force me asleep at night. The crazy thing is that I can take 2 ambien and even chase it down with alcohol and I will still be wide awake. I just can't ever sleep at night and I know that it's not good for my health to keep drugging myself to sleep just so I can have a "normal" schedule. :-(

Originally posted by sleepingiskey

 

Our sleep lab is close to 28 years of focusing mainly on researching this problem and I myself worked there the last 16 years.

I have a major problem with this sentence and line of thinking. Your sleep research looked at people staying awake at night as a problem. Your team of researchers tackled the entire issue as a problem, and probablly never once thought could this actually be natural for some people to be awake at night.

Many horrible things have been done to people all through out history, because they supposedly had a problem when they never did, or they were just misunderstood. It is also clumping the entire human race into one little hole, and allowing for no differences. The thing is that there are differences and will always be differences.

What I wonder in your 16 years of research is if you ever tackled the issue as not a problem? If you tackled the issue asking why are their sleeping patterns actually different and seem to be normal for these people? How can you be 100% sure that they felt better, when more than likely you were pumping them with ideas that their sleeping during the day is a problem and not natural. That they will feel better after their sleep pattern changes. If you tell a person something for long enough, they will actually start to believe it, whether it is true or not. Did you actually take care to not do this?

You can't tell me I'm BSing on this point. Many battered women actually believe they are worth nothing after being told time and time again. If your spouse keeps saying you are lazy and do nothing, eventually you believe that even though you do everything and more that you are suppose to. Garbage in, garbage out. I've been there at one point in my life.

Really how one sided was your research?

[edit on 22-3-2010 by Mystery_Lady]

reply to post by Nightflower


Actually I love the light, well at least indirect. I love being outside in the daylight taking a walk. I can't stay out for very long though, because I get sun burnt easy. I have a very bad stigmatismin my eyes, so I don't know if or how that affects sensitivity to light. I can't see without glasses. I can't see well in the dark. I can't read well in very dim light.

When I was trained as a security guard at one location where I walked around outside at night, the person training me needed no other light source. I needed a flashlight in the darkest areas.

[edit on 22-3-2010 by Mystery_Lady]

[edit on 22-3-2010 by Mystery_Lady]

reply to post by Nightflower


First of all let me apologize if my posts came across as rude or belittling.
If you have seen how happy some people were after one month you get carried away easily.
I’ll try to watch for that in my posts from now on.

I hope my posts made it clear that I do acknowledge the existence of nocturnal people.

Originally posted by sleepingiskey
A fifth of the population can be called "Highly sensitive persons".
(en.wikipedia.org...)

These people perceive light, sounds and a variety of others things in a different way than other people.

Maybe some of you out here are highly sensitive people too, who knows.

reply to post by Mystery_Lady

Originally posted by Mystery_Lady
Your sleep research looked at people staying awake at night as a problem. Your team of researchers tackled the entire issue as a problem, and probablly never once thought could this actually be natural for some people to be awake at night.

I am not quite sure where or how you got that idea from, but that is definitely not the case.

People came to our lab for a variety of reasons.
The wanted to change their sleep schedule, they haven’t found the right one yet, they had two or more schedules that worked equally well, …

To keep it brief: At first we analyze the person’s life and health. After that we monitor them over an extended period of time during their regular days. After that we experiment with different techniques including moving the sleep schedule around. But we do not move it simply to a “night sleeper” schedule, we move it around 24 hours to check for the person’s response (mental, physical, …)
It takes a very long time to finally figure out where a person really stands.

Originally posted by Mystery_Lady
What I wonder in your 16 years of research is if you ever tackled the issue as not a problem?

Our research focuses on finding the right sleep schedule for that person (as described above).
Since they all vary from one another there is no “problem” as you call it.
However the majority of cases we had ended up on the “night sleeper” side, because that is where their bodies and minds were at their full potential.
As mentioned several times before: There were some cases that fell into the “day sleeper” category, but there were very, very few ones.

Originally posted by Mystery_Lady
If you tackled the issue asking why are their sleeping patterns actually different and seem to be normal for these people? How can you be 100% sure that they felt better, when more than likely you were pumping them with ideas that their sleeping during the day is a problem and not natural. That they will feel better after their sleep pattern changes. If you tell a person something for long enough, they will actually start to believe it, whether it is true or not. Did you actually take care to not do this?

As described above we checked the person as a whole.
A person can say that they are happy, but their bodies can tell a different story.
Just look at how a psychiatrist helps the people who come to them.
They are not giving you the answers you are looking for, they are helping you to find them yourself.
We never promised the people coming to us that we could do anything to help them nor did we tell them that “this solution” or “that solution” will be the ultimate fix. We examined the preconditions and our test results and tried several things before we hit the target or came at least close to it.

Originally posted by Mystery_Lady
Really how one sided was your research?

Hopefully I was able to show that our research is not one sided as you described it in your post.
I thank for raising that concern in your post, because that way I was able to clarify what we do.

Have a great day/night everyone.

reply to post by sleepingiskey


you base your ideas of „only very few real nocturnals“ on your experience in a sleep lab. Even if every human that exists came to your lab, you still couldn't be sure. The truth is we do not know how many nocturnals are there, nor do we know why they are that way. Despite of how much credit science always want's to give themselves, we simply don't have the puzzle 'human' completed. Today the world of doctor's threats the population on their ideas. Many of these ideas are outtdated, but the industry doesn't like change. They like sick people, it's their income. They are fast to try to conform people to their ideas and are fast to prescribe medicine. Medicine today is in many areas a big money scam. Now i don't say you are like that, but you should be careful with jumping to conclusions only because you think you did help a few people. They might seem many to you, but based on the whole population it might only be a slim percent.

How i've said, we do not know, in every area, why our body functions the way it does. Let's assume for a moment, that with the right program you could change everyones internal clock and that they would even feel good that way. Does that make it right? Do we want to play god and act as we know what is right for us or others, better than nature(god), or the person itself, does? Can we really say thats better for the person in the long run? Do we know for sure what else it will or could affect? People aren't stupid. And even if it's only their choice to stay up all night, they should have the freedom to do so.

The thing is this, if we can be sure of anything, than that there is alot of variation in nature, in every species. People have different likes and dislikes, what feels good for one person can be bad for another person.

Everyone, no matter what race, color, gender, rythm, whatever, should have the same freedoms, rights and oppurtunities as everyone else. This whole rasissm has to stop.

I believe that you don't have bad intentions and not everything i said here goes at you, i also give you credit for wanting to help people, but once in a while we get stuck in our believes and should check them. I'm no different in that department.

Originally posted by sleepingiskey
reply to post by Nightflower

 

Originally posted by sleepingiskey
A fifth of the population can be called "Highly sensitive persons".
(en.wikipedia.org...)

These people perceive light, sounds and a variety of others things in a different way than other people.

Maybe some of you out here are highly sensitive people too, who knows.

Yeah i'm def. very sensitive, i have parts on my body, when i get touched there, i get shocked, like from electro shocks, freaks me out alot hehe.

Just wanted to chime in as one of The Nocturnal. I had to fight to get my job to let me come in at 11 AM, but they lowered it to 10 AM (so much for "flex time") over a year ago. I can never get to sleep before 3 AM, either, meaning I never get more than about 6.5 hours of sleep on weekdays. I never sleep less than 12 hours on Saturdays, just to make up for the previous five days. Last night, I *started* trying to fall asleep at 2:30. I was still awake at 5:00 (that is, admittedly, fairly unusual), and that was *after* taking some kind of "PM" "Drowsy" cold medicine (got a cold too). I got to work at 10:00 (they apparently prefer that I spread my illness to everyone at work, because they can't WATCH ME when I'm working from home and I could be SLACKING OFF while sneezing and puking and coughing and typing). So, about 4 hours, 20 minutes of sleep.

And they wonder why I always look like I'm stoned...

I do have one interesting story to add, here. I was in the Army (which nobody who knows me can believe), and while attending one particular school, they suddenly split the classes into morning and night classes. We actually got to sleep until noon, do our exercising and stuff before "breakfast" (lunch), then go learn stuff while we were better able to handle learning. There were lots of us who fit that schedule much better, and none of us could believe they were permitting it. So if the Army can learn this lesson, why can't everyone else in power? How would Morning Persons feel if they were forced to work from 10 PM to 6 AM every single workday, huh? (And why does it always have to be "Us vs. Them" on every front?)

You know what we need? What every other "special interest" group has: LOBBYISTS! There HAS to be SOME way to FORCE those evil Morning Persons to stop destroying our health. Everything in the morning takes me about 1.5 times as long to do, too, so letting me be a programmer at night would even improve my productivity. It's not like the Internet goes down when the sun does. I can even attend meetings at, say, 2 PM, so I don't know what their problem is. I think they're just control freaks. "Do what I say or get out, and I don't care if you die from it!" seems to be the attitude. Can't we all just get along? Why do The Powerful always force us into doing things we don't want to do, or even can't do? Is it just because they can? Is it a megalomania thing? Are they corrupted absolutely, or simply evil at heart? Do they literally hate us because we're "different" (which so many other hatreds are based on)? "I refuse to compromise because I'm in charge!" perhaps? SCREAM!

If it weren't for humans, I'd be proud to be one.

reply to post by Thought Provoker


Thanks for sharing!

I think the biggest problem is that most still believe we are making this all up and can change if we really wanted to. Before anything can be down about schools and work places ect. people need to acknowledge that we exist, and that we are here to stay and that we won't change.

Of course they do not want to accept this, it would mean rearranging many things in society. Wich costs money and might involve thinking .

On the other hand it could create more work places, new schools for nocturnal childrens, nocturnal teachers, ect.

I think it might take a long time till we get the same right's as everyone else. As long as money is involved and people cling to their narrowminded ideas, people that don't fit the norm will always be outcasts.

While a lobby might be a good idea, we can help by telling others that its natural, spreeding the seed of truth, printing artikels and showing to them, ect..

Parent's can try to homeschool their kids at evening or tell their teachers that its not their kids fault and that something should be done.

We need to make more noise instead of acting like victims!

Originally posted by sleepingiskey
(en.wikipedia.org...)

Well, that explains the way i am, heh, never thought i would figure out thanks to ATS.

[edit on 23-3-2010 by Rizaun]

i am a night person i have always every since i can remember did everything at night i had alot of the same problems you had and now work night shift i have an 8 month old son and he is alot like his father lol when i get home i put him to bed and his mother is also a nigh walker and i can understand being thought of as a criminal but the truth is that you meet some of the most intresting people at night and honestly most of you are jus like me an average hard working american who is tired of being judged just because i dont do things like"normal people" who is to say what is normal and what isnt the important thing iss just to remember your not alone and there are others just like you

reply to post by Nightflower
like this world. night and day. then I thought, no harm we choose to be more alive in one of them. many things in this world, many sides, most important, how we can live side of life that we choose. all choices have consequences even own.

as well as the nocturnal life. there is nothing wrong with a more vibrant at night, more able to think at night, more confident on the night. as long as we could go through it and not disturb other people, why not?

I was someone from the east, who believe that the night always provides the best light than any light.

I wake up at 9 pm. Need a graveyard shift

Naturally nocturnal for life, night skies are a thing of beauty.

A lot of what is discussed here can be explained by a mutated endogenous retrovirus. People with that are what I consider the future of mankind. The evolution of people, if you believe in that sort of thing. They are faster, stronger, smarter etc than normal people.
They usually get blood diseases though, or a lack of blood. They're nails are typically stronger and clearer and they can hear very high frequencies. They are very sensitive to sunlight and typically get headaches or migranes from it.
They always stay up at night and sleep during the day.
I typically get up at 6:30pm and sleep at 11:00am.

A retro virus? Where do you get that idea from?

reply to post by Nightflower


It's not an idea, it's science.


Video can be found here:
www.youtube.com...

Well, I hate waking up in the morning, I guess I'm most active at 13-23. I have heard a lot of people I know say they don't like the sunlight and would just like it to be dark all the time. I myself am totally dependant on the sun, it does miracles on me, so I can't understand how someone feels different. Note that I live in Finland, where there is a period of some 8 months every year when you technically don't see the sun (there's a thick layer of cloud covering the sun almost every day) and it's totally dark from as early as 4pm till 10am.

[edit on 23-4-2010 by Jonas86]

reply to post by Nightflower


I'm the exact same way,energized at night,a sluggish zombie in the day,I'm never quite myself even if i manage to sleep at night when necessary on occasion,my nocturnal nature cause me to drop out of school in high school,I did my equivalency in about 3 years by forcing myself into a diurnal(daytime) routine which was hellish,much like the few times i took day jobs,I used to be able to force myself to be diurnal for long periods even though it was hell,I lasted a full year at a day job once,till I couldn't take it anymore and told my boss if he didn't put me on night shifts i was leaving effective immediately,he did switch me,and I stayed working there for several years,it was my first taste of a truly nocturnal life,my natural life,since then I never took a day job again,being single all my life surely made this all easier in some ways.I may miss out on certain things,job opportunities,etc.. but i also miss out on the destruction of my health by forcing myself into a sleep pattern that isn't natural for my body,my family thinks nocturnal = abnormal and they argue I could adjust to a "normal" sleep pattern if I wanted to,God only knows I've tried,life at night is great,I'm energized,ready for anything,fewer people and distractions,a lot less idiots on the roads when i drive,it's quiet and peaceful most everywhere,it's a joy.

Spot on! My mom tells me that I have always been a night owl since DAY ONE! I too have tried numerous of times to have a "normal" sleep cycle, but fail after a few days. When the sun goes down, that is when I feel myself becoming more aware and active. Then when the sun comes up, I get so tired. I sleep better during the day. Yes, and people do pick on me for being nocturnal. They do think that because I sleep during the day that I am a lazy slob who avoids all responsibilities. The joke "Are you a vampire?" is getting old too.


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