According to the CBO, this bill will cut the debt by 138 billion in 10 years, and the following 10, it will cut the debt by over a trillion. 95% of people covered under the bill, and nothing mandated (else it would have been 99%, but people dont like being told what to do.

I see this as a positive fiscally conservative fix to health care...most experts do..the only ones really complaining now are far left and far right..one demanding more socialism aspects be installed, the other demanding more principled survival of the fittest philosophy.

Never listen to the fringe of either party.

I have been saying it for the past year.
It is trying to create a new bubble to fix the economy as alot of the other bubbles created have burst.

When you think of how many years healthcare reform has been talked about and look at the fact that once we had the crash of Sept 30 08 and NOW they want to do something about healthcare,does the timing of it all not peak your suspician??

They could have reformed healthcare years ago if they REALLY wanted to.
The fact the economy is in the crapper and the fact that now they are actually serious about it tells me something smells funny.

I don't think it is really a bailout so much as i think it is a new bubble they need to create to help the economy stay afloat.

Originally posted by KRISKALI777
It makes me sick; the lie that is called democracy.

Democracy? Neither the AU nor the US is a Democracy.

sorry to nitpick here, but if either country was a democracy, corporate insterests would have one hell of a time putting their agenda forward.

America is a constitutional republic, and Australia is a federal constitutional monarchy under a parliamentary democracy(parliamentary democracy is a fancy way of saying a selective republic). Both versions are easily purchased, corruptable, and fairly inefficient.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
According to the CBO, this bill will cut the debt by 138 billion in 10 years, and the following 10, it will cut the debt by over a trillion. 95% of people covered under the bill, and nothing mandated (else it would have been 99%, but people dont like being told what to do.

I see this as a positive fiscally conservative fix to health care...most experts do..the only ones really complaining now are far left and far right..one demanding more socialism aspects be installed, the other demanding more principled survival of the fittest philosophy.

Never listen to the fringe of either party.

Come on Saturn!!! You are being completely intellectually disingenuous!!! Healthcare could be fixed in a 4 page bill. Number 1 - tort reform. Number 2 - Allow interstate policy sales based on universal standards. Number 3 - Place controls on the "For profit" entities, just as they have done with other industries. Number 4 - development of state-wide exchanges. That's it - that is all that would've needed to be done.

Instead, the IRS get's new powers, healthcare is rationed, taxes SOAR, penalties, fines and fees are evident. Heck, Walgreens in WA just announced that they can no longer afford to accept new Medicare patients as they are LOSING money! You people who support this are living in fantasy land!

Originally posted by SaturnFX
According to the CBO, this bill will cut the debt by 138 billion in 10 years, and the following 10, it will cut the debt by over a trillion. 95% of people covered under the bill, and nothing mandated (else it would have been 99%, but people dont like being told what to do.

I see this as a positive fiscally conservative fix to health care...most experts do..the only ones really complaining now are far left and far right..one demanding more socialism aspects be installed, the other demanding more principled survival of the fittest philosophy.

Never listen to the fringe of either party.

How can a bill that will cost the tax payers almost a trillion dollars cut the deficit?

Originally posted by kozmo

Originally posted by SaturnFX
According to the CBO, this bill will cut the debt by 138 billion in 10 years, and the following 10, it will cut the debt by over a trillion. 95% of people covered under the bill, and nothing mandated (else it would have been 99%, but people dont like being told what to do.

I see this as a positive fiscally conservative fix to health care...most experts do..the only ones really complaining now are far left and far right..one demanding more socialism aspects be installed, the other demanding more principled survival of the fittest philosophy.

Never listen to the fringe of either party.

Come on Saturn!!! You are being completely intellectually disingenuous!!! Healthcare could be fixed in a 4 page bill. Number 1 - tort reform. Number 2 - Allow interstate policy sales based on universal standards. Number 3 - Place controls on the "For profit" entities, just as they have done with other industries. Number 4 - development of state-wide exchanges. That's it - that is all that would've needed to be done.

Instead, the IRS get's new powers, healthcare is rationed, taxes SOAR, penalties, fines and fees are evident. Heck, Walgreens in WA just announced that they can no longer afford to accept new Medicare patients as they are LOSING money! You people who support this are living in fantasy land!

I really dont want to start this nonsense where you talk the rights talking points with half truths, I respond with the lefts talking points with half truths, we both make points, we both refuse to see the others points, then some idiots elect us both into congress so we can annoy people nationally.

My post stands. CBO said the numbers, its a fiscally conservative bill, case closed. I like fiscally conservative things that makes things work better...so should you..but you dont have to of course.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777

Originally posted by SaturnFX
According to the CBO, this bill will cut the debt by 138 billion in 10 years, and the following 10, it will cut the debt by over a trillion. 95% of people covered under the bill, and nothing mandated (else it would have been 99%, but people dont like being told what to do.

I see this as a positive fiscally conservative fix to health care...most experts do..the only ones really complaining now are far left and far right..one demanding more socialism aspects be installed, the other demanding more principled survival of the fittest philosophy.

Never listen to the fringe of either party.

How can a bill that will cost the tax payers almost a trillion dollars cut the deficit?

How many reference sites would you like to start reading?

The money is the part used to institute the changes that will bring about the federal savings. It will cost X amount, but bring in Y amount...Y-X = z

Pretty basic math really a penny saved is a penny earned. spend 99 pennys on a penny a day saver and on day 100, you start turning a profit. Surely you know someone whom owns a business...they dont start off profitable..you need to invest a ton of money initially and then work your way back out of the red.

BS! Saturn, if you "Like[d] truly conservative things" then you would be spending your time campaigning for a SMALLER federal government. Sorry, I see right through your ruse!

Oh, and to add... Did you happen to notice the press release from the IRS that stated that they would need almost 100,000 more employees and a budget increase of $10 BILLION dollars a year just to "police" this bill???

Scope creep already - less than 24 hours later. By my estimates, that is a $100 BILLION dollar cost increase in the first 10 years for only 6 years of benefits!

Hmmm... I wonder what other hidden costs will come to light over the next year???

Originally posted by kozmo
BS! Saturn, if you "Like[d] truly conservative things" then you would be spending your time campaigning for a SMALLER federal government. Sorry, I see right through your ruse!

Oh, and to add... Did you happen to notice the press release from the IRS that stated that they would need almost 100,000 more employees and a budget increase of $10 BILLION dollars a year just to "police" this bill???

Scope creep already - less than 24 hours later. By my estimates, that is a $100 BILLION dollar cost increase in the first 10 years for only 6 years of benefits!

Hmmm... I wonder what other hidden costs will come to light over the next year???

Did you see the CBO report?

Fiscal conservatism is not about government size...the so called "real fiscal conservatives" have proven time and time again that when they call the shots, we get a massive increase in government spending and programs...typically in the name of defense.
Since Reagen, we have seen only expanding government and massive debt in actions...the only exception to this rule was Bill Clinton.
Thats the flat out facts.

You can argue the talking points all you want, but facts remain pretty clear. the far right neocons are for pro debt, pro expansion. This health care bill will in fact reduce the debt...the biggest debt reduction measure since Bill Clinton.

Researchable by independent firms, and the only arguement against it are by neocons.

if it takes 10k people to save 138 billion over 10 years, or 1 trillion over 20, then great...sounds like a deal. more employment and savings, whoot.

I want as Obama mentioned in his campaign...I want smarter government...responsible government. Size means jack...if I truely wanted a tiny government, I would move to Nigeria or the Congo.

The hidden cost statement is a reflex reaction from the Bush administration when they truely were hiding the costs of war, of their medicare disaster, etc.

and finally as far as the 6 year thing...right, these plans will be instituted over time and will really start kicking in in about 4 years. This has been another talking point from the right...omg, even if it works, it will be 4 years from now...so lets not do it, because 4 years is too far ahead and will never come.

get over it. Time the country starts looking at more than 6 month intervals...do we want cake and ice cream today or the longevity of our country as a whole?

There is a good arguement that democracy/republics are not able to be stable for long because the people in general do not consider the future...only what is happening at the very moment..which makes politicians cater to them

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
three forths of Americans don't believe it,

3/4ths of the people in the US have a IQ of under 120 and believe in a magical sky ghost watching their every move and listening to their thoughts for naughty words.