Satan come and reveal thyself for us!

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/d68de3aa2297258d.gif[/atsimg] Pic source.



Humour aside, it is after all a serious issue, so wrongly understood and misused.

Satan is knowledge. Satan is creative mind. Satan is something real, yet it is merely an concept, not anything alike what was presented in above picture.

Brief(ish) explanation: According to the bible, there was an tree of knowledge in paradise. It was this so called seducer that made Eve eat out of that tree. Probably you all are aware of the story, so I won't repeat it here. I'd rather give an explanation.

So the seducer said that whoever eats from that tree wouldn't die, but instead become like god, understanding the good and evil and so on. Means knowledge right? Knowledge of opposites to be more precise. Lucifer, when translated from latin means lightbringer, illumination i.e understanding, knowledge indirectly. If you submit yourself to it, you'd be like good ol' doctor Faust who made pact with Mephistopheles. If you submit yourself to knowledge, it'll have your soul and becomes the master of your activities.

Why is knowledge such a bad character, often portrayed in similar manner as above picture? Could it be because it has also caused all the suffering that humans has been able to produce through knowledge? You know, weapons, cruelty, ideologies which had caused unspeakable terror and all that. Truly it is kind of knowledge that rules the world.

I don't believe in personified Satan, but I understand the conception. For this thread, I expect to receive flames, perhaps also praises, but I shall dismiss all that. It is just an opinion, and you can decide yourself how to react.

-v

The scriptures say that satan transforms himself to appear as an angel of light. He is an imposter. Satan is alive and well and his bidding is done through organized religion.

Corporate religion "appears" to be holy and good with their outward manifestation of charities and feigned benevolence. But the dark side is that they used twisted scripture to manipulate their followers into agendas of hatred for others who will not come under their subjection. They use guilt to extort money from their followers. It's still the same idea as "indulgences" just a modern format.

Under the guise of religion, religious leaders make themselves above the law while at the same time using their power and influence to make the laws and rules for the masses. Knowing they are above the law and claiming they answer to no one but their invisible god, they are able to get away with a lot of greed and abominations. Who absolves the Pope when he shares a responsibility of those who sexually feast on little children?

As far as what happened in the garden of eden, if we were originally created as goodness and hard-wired for truth, then why would we have needed to know darkness and sorrow? Maybe that's why so many of us have been gullable and too trusting. We were created for truth and goodness.

We are not from here; we were not originally created in these clay bodies. These bodies of dust were created by satan. This is his world. What is inside of us, the part that holds our emotions, ideas, etc. is our spirit.
We are here to learn how to overcome evil and to do so with using our hearts and intellect, not weapons.

The light Satan brings is like the light from a genie's lamp. And we all know the genie, or djinn, is a trickster. Have we not all been tricked by lack of disclosure in this system? The Genie lamp is an icon used in many stained glass windows in churches as well as on published literature. It is a logo of corporate religion and is very revealing once you know what it means.

reply to post by Alethea


Your post is very interesting and insightful. Would you care to elaborate? Your last two paragraphs were especially appealing to me.

[edit on 19/3/2010 by Dark Ghost]

reply to post by Alethea


no this is not the world of satan since satan did not create earth... satan has no power to create and these bodies were not created by him.

however i do agree with all the other stuff you said

satan is evil, sure he has valuable knowledge but its all used for evil... so you sell youre soul, he gives you secret knowledge and tells you how and when to use it, in return he gives you power/money etc... nothing good comes out of him, just oppression

reply to post by v01i0

Why is knowledge such a bad character, often
portrayed in similar manner as above picture?

This thread may interest you.

reply to post by v01i0


If Satan were paying attention; I am sure threads like this would make Satan so sick that the dark angel would segregate himself for another 1000 years.

Lots of opinions can be formed from the bible characters to which are just copied legends and myths, that originated in ancient times from the personification of the sun, planets etc seen above in the heavens. The OP states nonbeleif in the personfication of the satan character and provides an opinion which is outside the box from conventional beleif. Both traits of sensible thinking, and make much more sense than that which has been taught to the brainwashed masses.

Many have fallen victim of the Satan character being an actual supernatural being who spends his existence tricking folks in attempt to capture their soul for all eternity. That nonsense has been planted into the minds of the fearful religious individuals for as long as the crooked religious authorities existed.

With the invention of computers and internet, there is no excuse for those that still beleive that there is a satan bogeyman after us and fooling us. Study the original words and discover the true transulations of the words and you the superstitious among us will see that there is NO satan bogeyman fooling us, but it is their PASTORS and PRIESTS that are doing the tricking, and you are the fools.

is that why a large portion of students pursue math with such tenacity? is that THE DEVIL inside of them working towards greater knowledge in mathematics to secure a job with places such as NASA or some other high tech government corporation? say son, the power towards self discipline and striving for good is within all, but aspartame has killed our brains. or maybeee technology is satan, absorbing our knowledge so we don't have to read books and store long term memory anymore? singularity resulting in an inverse proportion of machines doing their own thing vs the renaissance era of hard earned knowledge and new philosophy.

Yes, indeed Satan, reveal yourself.

I will have great pleasure in seeing God deal with you and your little helpers swiftly. ( No, I am not referring to human beings here)

Anyone that follows you, is a fool.

Satan is a powerful being yes, I admit that. However, he is not as powerful as people think. He has a vast majority of humanity on his side only because he's great at deception. He is very tricky.

Satan is in fact the ruler of this world. Believe me, he does not care about human beings, not one. He has led humanity astray. The only thing he cares about is taking over in heaven. And that is not going to happen. Once he realizes all is lost, he's not going be very happy. Guess who he's going to take it out on. Yes, his own people. The ones that have chosen to give up their place in heaven to live well in this world. That's just sad.

You can thank him (Satan) for all of the problems in this world, you can thank him for what's about to happen too.

When things get bad, and they will, no matter what sins you have committed, God will forgive you. He will protect you. God is the only way.

God is life.

Satan is death.

The temple is thy body. The temple must be prepared for God a third time. I, with God's help, have prepared the temple for him twice.

I believe with God's help, I can do this a third time.

I will endure anything for the God that I believe in. I belong to him, that's the way it is, and that's the way it will always be.

To all, do yourself a huge favor. Turn away from him, (Satan) you owe it to yourself.

~ Zeus







[edit on 19-3-2010 by Zeus2573]

If i remember correctly, Satan does not exist in mythology. The cloven-hoof image was stolen from a pagan god and demonized in efforts to further drive out pagans if they would not convert. Lucifer exists as a fallen angel, but not Satan.

reply to post by Alethea


I really like your post. Very, meaningful and very true. The fact your post doesn't have many stars (at the moment) is clear indication of what kind of world we are living in.

Star from me.

~ Zeus

reply to post by v01i0


Your beliefs are not based on the facts. Lucifer was a thief from the very beginning. Have you read that? Which should tell you that he stole his powers in heaven before this earth was created. This earth was created by God to defeat Lucifer aka Satan. The Lord Jesus Christ did defeat Satan it was a plan. Now you should know that the dead can not kill the dead as you must have read about the great war that took place in heaven mentioned in the book of Revelations. You would not be able to understad the concept of why a divine plan would work. You do know that the book of Revelations is not written in order of events or your history right?

Satan is bound and changed in the Lake of Fire with the rest of the angels aka demons that turned againest God this took place because of the great judgement. Which is when all that died before salvation was given had to be judged that includes Satan and the rest of those idiot demons.

You do not need Satan in this world for evil to exist because Man will always be evil. Didn't the story of the Flood teach you anything?

reply to post by v01i0



www.sacred-texts.com...

This link is about the great judgement. The last paragraph is for all that were given salvation that would include you.

Lucifer is not in this world and hasn't been for thousands of years and will never be again.

i find religian so funny.
in the begining there was nothing GEt that noting
then god said ladeda and so on
now people god the almity himself CREATED his own enemy
then even though he KNOW what was going to happen next he gave him power.
then even though god know what was going to happen next (god knows all)]
your book says this. he created man then put the tree in KNOWING that man was weak and would eat of it knowing the devil would get man to eat of it.
KNOWING the begining and end results of all his endervers would be destroyed by the very enemys he him self created.
GOD CREATED the devil gave him power knowing all this ?
and your worrryed about the devil?
gods nuts knowing all this and doing it all anyway comdeming man to a million years of misery man the devil would make a better offer.
you keep your god who creats devils and then destroys you because you cant tell wich is wich this is the god you follow lololol

The thing is yes knowledge is a form of evil for it does influence the lives of many on planet Earth but we were told directly by our creator DO NOT EAT THAT FRUIT THERE WAS A TREE OF LIFE PRESENT, IMAGINE IF THAT WAS THE FRUIT THEY HAD EATEN FIRST (AUTOMATIC ETERNAL LIFE)...

I do believe that the knowledge can be a form of evil but THERE IS A REAL DRAGON/SERPENT DEPENDING ON YOUR VIEW OF IT that can materialize in flesh form and interact directly with humanity, its not just a from of knowledge its a Beast that decieved GOD the creator and tricked humanity into eating from that tree which may have been put there for future reasons...

Satan possess INTELLIGENCE WHICH IS NOT THE SAME AS KNOWLEDGE-ANGELS ARE INTELLIGENT ENERGY FORMS.
NICE THREAD OP S&F FOR ATLEAST ACKNOWLEDGING THERE IS A EVIL PRESENCE WITHIN THIS LIL UNIVERSE......

Originally posted by RizeorDie
reply to post by Alethea

 

no this is not the world of satan since satan did not create earth... satan has no power to create and these bodies were not created by him.

And you know this how? I mean, I wasn't present when the Earth was created, and I highly suspect you were not there either. Please think about those wild statements before you make them.

satan is evil, sure he has valuable knowledge but its all used for evil... so you sell youre soul, he gives you secret knowledge and tells you how and when to use it, in return he gives you power/money etc... nothing good comes out of him, just oppression

Evil? I wouldn't say that. There is a thing called BALANCE. In everything there must be this balance. I will explain that later, for now, let's take a look at Satan....

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Satan (Hebrew: הַשָׂטָן ha-Satan ("the accuser"); Persian "sheytân"; Arabic: الشيطان al-Shaitan ("the adversary") - both from the Semitic root: Ś-Ṭ-N) is an embodiment of antagonism that originates from the Abrahamic religions, being traditionally considered an angel in Judeo-Christian belief, and a Jinn in Islamic belief. Originally, the term was used as a title for various entities that challenged the religious faith of humans in the Hebrew Bible.[citation needed] Since then, the Abrahamic religions have used "Satan" as a name for the Devil.[1]

en.wikipedia.org...

Early history: 300 BCE to 100 CE

Development of the Concept of Satan prior to 300 BCE in Israel:

Traditionally, Christians have believed that the Pentateuch [the first 5 books of the Hebrew Scriptures or Old Testament] were written by Moses under the inspiration of God circa 1450 BCE during the nation's exodus from Egypt. The book of Daniel was seen as having been written by Daniel himself, in the 6th century CE, etc. Conservative Christians still believe this today, largely because the Bible mentions the identity of its authors in many locations, and conservatives believe the Bible to be inerrant. However, analysis of the Bible as a historical document since the late 19th century has convinced essentially all non-Evangelical Old Testament scholars that most of the Pentateuch was not written by Moses. It is rather made up of a mixture of writings and editing by three individuals or groups: in 950 BCE by "J", 750 BCE for "E" and 539 BCE for "P". Deuteronomy was written in the 7th century BCE, and Daniel was written in the 2nd century BCE. In the following material, we will assume that the liberal interpretation is correct.

Among those books of the Hebrew Scriptures written before 300 BCE, the term "satan" (root word "s'tn") appears often. The word is derived from the original Hebrew verb "satan" which means "to oppose." The Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek was widely used in the early Christian church. They translated "satan" as "diaboloc" from which we derive our English term "devil" and "diabolic."

The word is used to refer to:
bullet Any person acting as an accuser or enemy. For example:
bullet 1 Samuel 29:4: The Philistines were distrustful of David, fearing that he would be a satan. (translated "adversary" or "someone who will turn against us").
bullet 2 Samuel 19:22: Shime-i apologizes to King David. The King rejects the apology, saying that they should not be a satan to each other (translated "adversary" or "opponent").
bullet 1 Kings 5:4: King Solomon is talking to Hiram, the King of Tyre. He says that now that there is neither satan nor bad luck to stop him, he can build the Temple. (translated as "adversary", "enemy", or "one who opposes").
bullet 1 Kings 11:14: God raised up Hadad the Edomite as a satan against Solomon. (translated as "adversary," or "opponent").
bullet A divine messenger sent by God as an adversary:
bullet Numbers 22:22 & 32: God appears in a dream, telling Balaam to go with the princes of Moab to meet Balak. But when Balaam sets out the next morning on his donkey, God is angry with him for some reason, and sent an angel/messenger to kill him. The donkey saw the angel and took evasive actions. The angel was invisible to Balaam, who beat the animal. The donkey asked Balaam why he had beat her three times. Balaam, who doesn't seem to realize that a talking donkey is an unusual occurrence, replies. The angel then appears and explains that he has come as a satan to kill him. (translated as "one who opposes, "withstand," "adversary")
bullet a member of God's inner council; a type of chief prosecutor of Heaven:
bullet 1 Chronicles 21:1: Satan, "a supernatural evil emissary," acting on God's behalf, has influenced David to hold a census. The census is taken, and God is angry for an unknown reason. Perhaps God does not want humans to be aware of the strength of the army. God then offers David his choice of one of three punishments: a 3 year famine, 3 months of fleeing before his enemies' armies, or a plague throughout Israel. David selects the plague and God killed 70,000 men (and presumably a similar number of women and many tens of thousands of children). In 2 Samuel 24, the identical event is described. However, this time, the text states that God influenced David to hold the census. Even though God had incited David to enumerate the men of Israel and Judah, he was still angry that it was done and punished the Israelites with a plague. The writings in 2 Samuel are believed to be the original account; 1 Chronicles came later. It is believed that when Samuel was finally edited (circa 560 BCE), the editors thought that all supernatural actions (good and bad) came from God. When Chronicles was written over a century later, (circa 400 BCE) the author viewed God as operating indirectly through his helpers.
bullet Job 1 and 2: Satan is described as one of the members of the court of heaven. God mentions that he is impressed at the behavior of Job, a blameless man who has lived an upright life. Satan attributes Job's commendable behavior to his good fortune and says that Job would soon curse God if he had a string of really bad luck. God decides to conduct an experiment with Job; he instructs Satan to destroy all that Job has: kill his animals, murder his employees, and murder his innocent children. But, even after these disasters, Job still does not curse God. So God instructs Satan to up the ante by returning to earth and destroying Job's health. Here, Satan is portrayed as a servant of God whose task it is to dutifully carry out evil deeds at God's instruction.
bullet Zechariah 3:1-7: Satan is again portrayed as a member of God's council. Here he objects to the selection of Joshua as the high priest.

There are no passages within the older parts of the Hebrew Scriptures where Satan is portrayed as an evil devil - the arch enemy of God and of humanity. At most, he is described as a henchman who carries out God's evil instructions. There is no dualism here between two powerful supernatural entities: an all-good God and an all-evil Satan. God is portrayed as performing, directly and indirectly, both kind and evil deeds.

www.religioustolerance.org...

As you can clearly see, Satan/Lucifer is not evil, in the true sense of the word. He is both opposer, and prosecutor of Heaven.

Follow me here. Black is defined by White, and White is defined by Black. Light is defined by Darkness, and Darkness is defined by Light. One cannot exist without the other to define it. Everything in the universe holds a balance, when a thing get out of balance, it tends to destroy itself.

God, by definition, must be a Duality. Both Light, and Dark....Both Male, and Female...... Both Good, and Evil. Christians will argue me here, but that is the way it is. If God is Omnipotent, Beginning and End, Alpha and Omega, then God is everything....no denial there, and then what I said is true. You cannot have it both ways.

I laugh at all these Satan threads. If you really do your research "Lucifer" is a mistranslation of "Light Bearer" and also the planet "Venus" which is the "Morning Star". the real "Satan" or "Adversary" will not be known until the time in which its just too late. but thanks for the laugh by your definition I just revelead "Satan" to you

and as for "Lucifer" bearing light or "Knowledge" its both such as the yin yang the light in the dark and the dark in the light some would say its an inverted 9 the numer of completion to reveal 6, an imperfect number because completion is imperfect. but thats a lucerferian doctorine. My own knowledge is "Lucifer" to exalt himself above "God Himself" or "Jesus" for the Christians to be the true second coming of "Christ" or "The Holy Spirit" who is "Lord of Lords" exalted above even "God himself" but still requires your worship of "God" which is still a mystery because "the mystery of God" still has not been "completed"

(Satan revealing little by little)

[edit on 19-3-2010 by clever024]

Thanks for all the replies and thoughts. I'd like to respond many, but my time is limited so I unfortunately cannot reply all the post - and those I've replied here, are not responded in the depth that would deserve.

Alethea, I think that mind and knowledge can indeed trick us, but this doesn't mean I agree with your views otherwise.

Thanks for LordBucket for a link, it was interesting. Indeed we do label many things as evil without better understanding.

SunIsSon, I concur. With the immense resources of knowledge (and also misinformation, lies and other inaccuracies) people could and should research the matters more.

Katie, I regard my observations not to be based on beliefs or assumptions, but rather individual experiences and conclusions. I don't believe in stories.

autowrench, yes, both good and evil - that is what God is. I wish that more people whom believe in Bible would read and comprehend the book of Job.


All in all, our mind and it's assumed intelligence, that include all the prejudices, assumptions, misconceptions and so on, can be pretty deceiving. Satan is within us, as is God, but they are both mere conceptions and allegories of human psychology.

When people project these things on outward reality, I think that they go astray. I maintain that these are only metaphoras of value-loaded qualities. They are real in the sense, but nothing physical.

Thanks for your thoughts, everyone equally!

-v

I thought in the 'bible' (at least in the last book of the so-called Greek New Testament) that LUCIFER ('bearer of the Light') was supposed to mean R. Yehoshua bar Yosef / aka Iesous / aka Jesus-- not a serpent/devil/belial or other evil being?

See Rev. 22:16

I, Iesous, hereby send my Messenger
to bear witness of these things to you

Amen, I am the Taproot and Spawn of David,
Yea, even Lucifer, the Bright & Morning Star !


Which of course is a Midrash on the Aramaic targum of Proto-Isaiah 14:12

How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer,
Son of the Morning Star !

How you are cut down to the ground,
you who would lay goyim low!

Did not you say in your heart,

‘I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of EL I will set my throne on high !

I will sit on the mount of assembly
even in the far North--

I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will make even as El Shaddai

But look now how you are dragged down to the Pit
Even to the depths of She'ol

Those who see you wag their heads
pondering at your affliction, saying

Aha, isn't this the man who made the land of Israel tremble,
even he would shake the Kingdoms,

Yea, he who made the land like a desert
and overthrew its cities,

Who captured so many prisoners
Then refusing to release them?

The idea being that (in the eyes of the non-believers watching the execution of this Daviddic Pretender) even though he had thought to lift himself up to heaven like some kind of Messiah god man (so say his detractors), look how he is laid low (i.e. the crucifixion--no picnic).

Presumably these same kinds of Midrashim were used by the earliest Christians (horrified about the kingdom not coming as advertised and moreover in the horribly shameful hideous execution of their fearless leader) in forming all those apologetic gospel traditions e.g. use of Psalm 22 or Isaiah 53 or Psalm 69 (the socalled Suffering Servant passages)

Psalm 22: Unclean Dogs surround me,
yea the band of evildoers encircle me:
All they that see me put me to shame
Yea, they hurl insults at me,
wagging their heads, saying

Since he trusts in YHWH so much
let YHWH save him now !

Yea, the strong Bulls of Bashan encircle me
like roaring lions, yelping over their prey
the people stare and gloat over my situation
they open their mouths wide, saying

Yea, let YHWH deliver him
since he delights in him so much !


The concept and label of LUCIFER was supposed originally in ancient cultures to be THE BRINGER OF THE LIGHT (i.e. a good god or goddess) and usually referred to the planet VENUS which is the brightest star in the sky at early morning as it 'draws up the Dawn' (hence 'star of the morn') ; you can see it in the eastern sky at daybreak.

Presumably the earliest Messianic Christians believed LUCIFER to be their Jesus who was going to bring them the Dawn on the New Age in the Kingdom of Heaven - even The Spawn and Taproot of David, the Bright Morning Star -

I suppose the myth that the once good divine angel Bringer of the Light (LUCIFER = from the Latin words: LUX, LUCIS = light, & FERO, FERRERE = I bring, carry) has 'fallen from his original light place' in heaven and knocked from his perch in his previously glorious place morphed over time into the idea that LUCIFER (once brilliant) lost his title and now was relegated to the 'darkness' (with such epithets as belial, beliar, the olde serpent, dragon, father of lies, shaitan-satan, baal-zevuv &tc.) but The Lucifer's position (which is neutral term to be filled be whomever) was eventually filled (according to the Christians) by the messiah (the 'sun of righteousness with healing in his wings' as in Malachi chapter 4) as a result of his martyrdom in 36 CE.

At least that it what the earliest christian communities (which was made up of originally Galilean and Judaean 1st century peasants) seemed to have believed about the name, to judge from the importance given to LUCIFER in the comparatively early (albeit muddled, mis-shapen and badly translated) Greek text copies of The Apocalypse (=Book of Revelation).

reply to post by v01i0


This guy...
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/233ff97d83e2.jpg[/atsimg]

Isn't Satan.

Isn't Lucifer, which is a Roman god.

Of course its not really a Nachash from Eden, but its a good representation of the Nachash.

For this thread, I expect to receive flames, perhaps also praises, but I shall dismiss all that.

I have to ask why did you make the thread then? To get stars and flags, or what?

Why dismiss reactions? This is a forum, a place for a discussion. I wanted to bring into the debate how Lucifer, Satan and the Serpent are different beings. Its pretty interesting when you get to the bottom of it.