When was Venus first seen?

Cometary tails are full of charged particles. Thus, they are a plasma, prone to the behavior that lies therein. You could imagine that to an ancient mind, seeing the cometary tail from the inside might give rise to visions of a feathered serpent.

The expanding Earth theory was not abandoned by anyone other than the "toe the line" folks in academia. Of course, with every new breakthrough we see that academia is wrong, too. Only when it is them, it is acceptable. Go figure.

This is not to say i buy into that theory...only that there are some interesting notions that seem to support it in several ways.

I am going to sleep right now, however if you follow the link to the thread called "Was Venus A Comet", there is an article from ESA discussing the composition of the ionic tail of Venus, and how it is the same proportions as water. It is also proven that the tail reaches earth. Therefore, without questioning quantity we have proof that the components of water, in the exact ratios as water, are making it from Venus to Earth. It is indisputable as long as those two pieces of information are correct. Their veracity is not something I am prepared to argue. That will need to be taken up with the ESA.

reply to post by BeastMaster2012

Originally posted by BeastMaster2012
That date, August 11, 3114 BC is the "Birth of Venus". Why would they start their calendar and call it the "Birth of Venus"?! AT the end of each period, the world is destroyed. Each Period lasts around 5000 years...

From what I know about the Maya myths there are 4 great global cataclysms out of which a new Sun begins afterward. We are at the end of the fifth Sun which means the 4 cataclysmic events have already come to pass. I am under the impression that these global destructive periods were within this long-count calendar (5000 yr period) and therefore the worst is over. If you have some information that shows otherwise I would be interested in reading about it.


reply to post by BeastMaster2012

As the story goes the Earth was not "hit" by Venus but there was rather a close fly by.

[edit on 5/10/2010 by Devino]

Originally posted by stereologist
No. The refinement of the calendars has nothing to do with the planets. It has to do with the people taking the measurements.

All calendars have to do with people on Earth measuring planetary/Lunar alignments. Ancient calendars such as the Maya's also used the measurements of Venus, Mercury and Mars alignments as well as Earth's precession of the equinoxes. So my question is why did the ancients have a calendar year of 360 days? And furthermore what was the cause for the need to refine it or add 5 1/4 days?

The scenario created by V. [Velikovsky] fails to conserve momentum, conserve energy, or both. V. suggested that Venus somehow was ejected by Jupiter. He does not claim it was a comet.

I don't recall Velikovsky making any claim as to exactly how Venus was supposed to have been shot out of Jupiter (or even that it was) and end up where it is now. So how can this be in violation of the conservation of energy? As far as we know Venus was a Moon of Jupiter or something entirely different, his claims are based on ancient myths as you have pointed out.

It is from these myths that the claim is made that Venus came from Jupiter. If Venus was ejected out of Jupiter, or one of the other gas giants, and observed by ancient peoples they most certainly would have written about it and in fact they did (ADD: or should I say writing in corroboration to this is evident). The question is, How could this have happened? It is a logistical error to claim that it is impossible therefore it did not happen.

I think any claim about Venus coming out of the planet Jupiter is ambiguous at best but claims that Venus was at one time a comet is very clear and Velikovsky points this out extensively. Again all of this is based upon his study of ancient myths and cultures.

The ability to determine longitude was not really possible in ancient times.

You should read "Secrets of the Great Pyramids" and "Mysteries of the Mexican Pyramids" by Peter Tompkins. Not only did the ancients measure longitude and latitude by they also measured the circumference of the Earth at the equator. There is much we do not know about these ancient people.

[edit on 5/10/2010 by Devino]

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by BeastMaster2012

 

Hancock is the pole shift guy. Guess what detailed geological research shows no pole shifts have occurred in the last 200 million years.

It has been clearly demonstrated that no pole shift was have occurred in the last 200 million years. That is not to say that a pole shift has not occurred. There is a study showing a pole shift at 800 million years ago.

By pole shift do you mean magnetic pole or axial? There is quite a lot of evidence for a Magnetic pole reversal but as for a change in the Earth's axis (to its present 23.44°) or even an axial pole reversal I don't know.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

- cometary tails are known to spiral

Can you tell us more about this? I don't believe that comet tails form spirals.

I think bigfatfurrytexan is referring to Birkeland Currents in association with ion tails.

Here is a link to an image.

It seems that there is a lot of circumstantial evidence supporting a large transit of water/water vapor being attributed to Venus, and supported by ESA data.

I don't see that any of this data suggests a transfer of water to the Earth from Venus.

I have read many theories based upon myths but as far as actual evidence, I don't know. I would be interested in reading any evidence in favor of this.

Venus has an ion tail similar to that of comets.
Thunderbolts info.
New Scientist.

Originally posted by Lisa12
Immanuel Velikovsky wrote a book called "Worlds in Collision" which focused on the origins of Venus as "having shot from the head of Jupiter". I have posted a secondary source which refers to Immanuel Velikovsky and actually provides some support for his theory. His book is fascinating and does give the possibility that it was Venus, and not Nibiru, Planet X, Wormwood, that caused the cataclysmic activity on our planet.
Is Venus a new planet?

I found this site very interesting. Venus not only does have a tail like that of a comet (ion) but this ion tail comes in contact with Earth during Venus transits. There are also many myths associated with the appearance of this celestial object (possible Venus as a comet) and the infestation of insects and diseases upon the Earth. Could it be possible that living bugs (or larvae), bacteria and viruses survive within the tail of a large comet and be deposited onto Earth during a transit of the Sun? See Panspermia theory.

So my question is why did the ancients have a calendar year of 360 days? And furthermore what was the cause for the need to refine it or add 5 1/4 days?

The Sumerians created the 12 divisions of the day, then 24. They also subdivided the hour into 60 parts. The use of 60 was the basis for their math. The Sumerian calendar was based on the moon, not the sun. This calendar was fully developed by 3000BC. They had a 12 month calendar. The moon repeats itself in a 29 1/2 day cycle. Instead of a fractional month it is easiest to use alternating months of 29 and 30 days. If this is done, then after 12 months you get a calendar of 354 days. This misses the solar year by 11 days. Missing by 11 days is bad, because the solar cycle tells you when to plant and harvest and important issues like that. The solution was to add a month of 30 days every 3 years. This is still 3 days shorter than a solar year.

Let's review the math.

1 year = 12 months
1 year = 6*29+6*40 = 354 days

1 year = 365-354 = 11 days short
2 years = 2*11 = 22 days short
3 years = 3*11-30 = 3 days short

So on the third year the Sumerians are 3 days short of the solar cycle.

Let's continue this process.

4 years = 3+11 = 14 days short
5 years = 14+11 = 25 days short
6 years = 25+11-30 = 6 days short
7 years = 6+11 = 17 days short

8 years = 17+11 = 29 days short

but during this time there have been 2 leap years. ALso, another month is added on the 8th year. It turns out that the moon's 29 1/2 is a little different

So the math at 8 years is really

8 years = 17+11-30+moon fudge = 0

So in 8 years the calendars match up. It took some adjustments with adding months on years 3, 6, and 8.

The Sumerian calendar was used in many places of the world until ROman times. It has become the Jewish calendar. The Egyptian calendar was adopted by Roman.

See the lectures of Dr David Neiman in YouTube for more information.

The oldest calendar was not a 360 day calendar. It was a lunar calendar adjusted to match the solar calendar.

reply to post by Devino


Velikovsky is very clear on Venus being ejected from Jupiter. He bases that claim on some myth. It was not a moon. V. does describe what he believes happens to this ejected body. The problem is that you can't make the path work out mathematically. There are rules that have to be followed such as conservation of energy, and conservation of momentum. The claims don't work because if you want to conserve momentum you have to magically toss in energy there. The claims don't hold up to the laws of physics. That's all.

V.'s claim is that the myths are history. So he creates a cosmology to match the myths. The physics don't work out. So we are left to decide if we should abandon physics or should be abandon the notion that myths are history. Since physics is so well established in these basic laws it seems unrealistic to continue to believe that myths are history.

Measuring latitude is simple. It has been done for a long time. Longitude is harder. The Earth rotates. Knowing your longitude is the same as knowing time differences between 2 points on the Earth. The problem of longitude measurements was a long running problem. Measuring the circumference of the earth is a simpler problem.

Holy crap i didn't know that Venus' tail almost reaches Earth.. that is insane! Man.. Venus is the ultimate planet. There are endless amazing things regarding Venus. I am beginning to think we came from Venus.

reply to post by Devino


A pole shift is a physical change of location of the land masses on the Earth. It is not a magnetic reversal, or a magnetic north wandering issue.

Cataclysmic pole shift hypothesis
This is the claim that has been put forward. It is a failure on a number of fronts, but mainly there are means of tracking the pole orientation over millions of years and there is no evidence for these events. Again, this is a failed effort to use myth as history.

reply to post by stereologist


Hapgood said that a 15 degree polar shift probably happened 10,000+ years ago which would have had parts of Antarctica out of the south Pole zone.

Just because most scientists agree on something doesn't make it right. It's obvious they are covering up things and lying to us. Most scientists and archaeologists think that the underwater city in Japan is not man made.. they think it's naturally formed. I have almost completely lost faith in anything that scientists/archaeologist tell us.

www.lightnet.co.uk...

Could that really be naturally formed? I mean really? REALLY?

Cometary tails point away from the sun as they approach the sun and as the comets head away form the sun. The tails do not form spirals. They form arcs due to the movement of the comets and the forces acting on the gasses of the tail.

It is known that gasses can escape from a planet. It is known that the gasses can be ionized in space. These ion tails from planets are not visible to the eye. Therefore, they can't apply to ancient astronomical observations. The amount of material involved is small.

Here is an article on Venus which I am using as a reference for information on the tail.
On the possibility of microbiota transfer from Venus to Earth

1. They point out that the tail was not detected beyond 10 Venusian radii till 1996.
   
2. They point out that the material is not in ratio for water, but contains the waters for water.
   
3. The calculated mass transfer is in units of grams.
   

The tail is sparse. It really does not reach out to earth. The ions from Venus may make it here, but a transfer in the terms of grams is really small.

reply to post by stereologist


Wait, wait, wait....you are telling me that the math behind the Sumerian calendar was mean to match up and balance every 8 years? Isn't 8 years the amount of time it takes Venus to complete 1 cycle of the pentacle?

Now, i suppose this would be considered just a coincidence, if you believed in such things. When it comes to humans and numbers, i don't.

Any idea why the Sumerians chose a base 60 math system when it contradicts all intuition and wiring of the human brain because of the 10 fingers we have (a base 10 system is, seemingly, natural for the human brain to contemplate).

reply to post by stereologist


I would posit that if Venus trails water ions, then that would mean our immediate area would have a higher than normal amount of them. Yes, it is really small,but after orbiting for presumably millions of years, one would expect that we have accumulated quite a bit by accretion.

That is, if you believe in accretion.

reply to post by BeastMaster2012


Hapgood's work was done in the 1950s in which he made up this pole shift to put parts of Antarctica in a place where he could place an advanced civilization. Hapgood's idea was found to be lacking in many ways. You have to think about the context in which Hapgood came up with the idea. In the 1950s very little was known about the ocean floors. That means 2/3 of the world was unknown. Sure we knew about the land, but the oceans were basically unexplored. Since that time we have learned a lot about the ocean floors, the 2/3 of the planet that is difficult to explore. The shape and structure of plates has been determined. Seismological data is being processed in ever increasing detail providing information about the Earth right down to the core. The upshot is that the evidence is very clearly against pole shifts. It was an idea. It was tested and it does not match the world we see.

Just because most scientists agree on something doesn't make it right. It's obvious they are covering up things and lying to us.

I agree with the first part, but not the second part. If there is agreement on a point it becomes a fact. As we know 3 times the winners of Nobel prizes in a science have been shown to be wrong. That tells us that facts are not truth, and more importantly that science rechecks its facts no matter how stable they appear to be.

And yes the site off one of the islands in Japan is a natural formation.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


The 8 years of the lunar-solar calendar is dependent on the Earth' travels around the sun and the Moon's travels around the Earth. This is independent of the ratio of the orbital times of the planets.

Base 60 is good. It is not a contradiction of intuition. It makes math easier. That's good.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by BeastMaster2012

 

Hancock is the pole shift guy. Guess what detailed geological research shows no pole shifts have occurred in the last 200 million years.

I apologize, he could have been influenced by the Polar Shift. I admit that i have Finger prints of the Gods but have not read all of it. I read the first part of the book and became stuck on researching the South American and Mesoamerican sites.

I wouldn't really consider him the Pole shift guy, i would consider Hapgood that or Rand Flem-ath. I would think of Hancock as the Ancient sites are way older than we think guy.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Let's do some simple math. Let's suppose that 1kg of water comes to earth from Venus every single year. OK, let's make it 10kg every year. Let's just use bigger numbers than occur to err on the side of caution.

In 12,000 billion years enough water goes from Venus to fill Lake Superior. That's 2609 times the age of the solar system you get the amount of water in Lake Superior.

Originally posted by stereologist

So my question is why did the ancients have a calendar year of 360 days? And furthermore what was the cause for the need to refine it or add 5 1/4 days?

The Sumerians created the 12 divisions of the day, then 24. They also subdivided the hour into 60 parts. The use of 60 was the basis for their math. The Sumerian calendar was based on the moon, not the sun. This calendar was fully developed by 3000BC. They had a 12 month calendar. The moon repeats itself in a 29 1/2 day cycle. Instead of a fractional month it is easiest to use alternating months of 29 and 30 days. If this is done, then after 12 months you get a calendar of 354 days. This misses the solar year by 11 days. Missing by 11 days is bad, because the solar cycle tells you when to plant and harvest and important issues like that. The solution was to add a month of 30 days every 3 years. This is still 3 days shorter than a solar year.

Let's review the math.

1 year = 12 months
1 year = 6*29+6*40 = 354 days

1 year = 365-354 = 11 days short
2 years = 2*11 = 22 days short
3 years = 3*11-30 = 3 days short

So on the third year the Sumerians are 3 days short of the solar cycle.

Let's continue this process.

4 years = 3+11 = 14 days short
5 years = 14+11 = 25 days short
6 years = 25+11-30 = 6 days short
7 years = 6+11 = 17 days short

8 years = 17+11 = 29 days short

but during this time there have been 2 leap years. ALso, another month is added on the 8th year. It turns out that the moon's 29 1/2 is a little different

So the math at 8 years is really

8 years = 17+11-30+moon fudge = 0

So in 8 years the calendars match up. It took some adjustments with adding months on years 3, 6, and 8.

The Sumerian calendar was used in many places of the world until ROman times. It has become the Jewish calendar. The Egyptian calendar was adopted by Roman.

See the lectures of Dr David Neiman in YouTube for more information.

The oldest calendar was not a 360 day calendar. It was a lunar calendar adjusted to match the solar calendar.

Wow. Okay, is this a coincidence than? Newgrange, which was built around 3000BC, was built to calculate the Sun, Moon and Venus. This is getting crazy...

www.mythicalireland.com...

Let me explain this 19-year thing: The problem of the calendar makers is to reconcile the apparent motion of the sun and moon. Seen from the earth, the sun goes around every 24 hours. The seasons are caused by the tilt of the earth in its orbit, and this orbit takes 365.25 days. We know this fact so well that we tend to forget that the length of the year is completely unrelated to the length of the day. As for month, the word comes from the word "moon". The moon in fact goes around anti-clockwise – only the spin of the earth makes it look clockwise. The month lasts 29.5 days from new moon to new moon. The year is twelve moon months and 10.9 days left over. So some years have thirteen new moons.

By a pure coincidence of the solar system, 19 sun years are almost exactly equal to 235 moon months. So if the moon and the sun are in a particular configuration on a particular day of the year, they will be in the same configuration with the moon at the same phase, on the same day, 19 years later. This 19 year cycle is an astronomical one, but it is used in the Christian calendar to determine the day on which Easter occurs.

Now what i found interesting about the above quote is that in 19 sun years equals 235 moon months. Now this is a coincidence, i suppose, but 235 are consecutive numbers in the fibonacci series.

0 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377

It is 2 numbers off from the 233 number. As some may know the Fibonacci series is built into Venus/Earth relationship. I will make a post on this in a second.

Now I want you to imagine a coming together of the winter sun, the new moon, and the planet Venus. The calendar maker has to decide what day to chose for day one. We chose January 1st and anno domini 1 (1 A.D.) as our starting points. But the winter solstice is a natural starting point for the sun; for the moon the new or darkened moon; and for Venus the inferior conjunction when it passes across the face of the sun and can be visible as a black dot under certain conditions.

Newgrange plan

I am saying that Newgrange may be designed to look out for a day which is day one of the suns year, day one of the moon's nineteen year cycle and day one of the planet Venus' eight year cycle. The lowest common denominator of the one year sun cycle, nineteen year moon coincidence and eight year Venus coincidence is 1 x 19 x 8 = 152. 152 fits Newgrange in the following way: Newgrange has 97 kerb stones. Make the entrance stone K1 and the highly decorated stone K52 represent the days of triple conjunction. There are 95 kerb stones remaining. Each kerb stone = one 584 day cycle of Venus. Thus each five stones = 8 years. Thus the stones make 19 x 8 years or 152 years. This represents a "great year" of sun, moon, and Venus.

as i mentioned in another post, i think Newgrange was also built to track Venus.

There is something special here. We have 3 civilizations 1000's of miles away from each other in around the year 3000BC calculating and creating calendars using the sun, moon and Venus. Within probably 100 years these three civilizations were doing almost the exact same thing. WTF happened. Could this easily be explained by a great flood destroying most people around 3000BC and the few survivors had to recalculate their calenders?

Something strange happened in 3000BC.

reply to post by BeastMaster2012


The mechanism Hancock invokes is pole shift through what he refers to as ECD, Earth Crust Displacement.

Hancock claims that crust of the Earth slips like a skin over the interior because of asymmetrical ice build up.

much as the skin of an orange, if it were loose, might shift over the inner part of the orange all in one piece.

Hancock claims the origins of mammoths frozen in the Arctic to be due to a pole shift

huge numbers of warm-blooded, temperate adapted mammal species were instantly frozen, and then their bodies preserved in the permafrost

These are quotes from Fingerprints of the Gods. He uses ECD to support his claim that in recent times Antarctica was ice free. He is a supporter of pole shifts and a strong proponent of something that did not happen.

I posted this in my Lucifer thread which surprisingly took off like a ROCKET.

From the wonderful book "VENUS, Her cycles, Symbols & Myths", here is some info on the sacred dance:

The sacred geometry of proportions, visible in patterns and designs of organic life, is the natural rhythm of planetary cycles. The dance of Venus with the Sun and Earth has a tempo not unlike the waltz - eight to thirteen, which is known as the golden or divine proportion; that is eight years and thirteen stations or conjunctions.

Now i have not mentioned this yet, but there is something extra special about Venus/Earth relationship. The Golden Ratio, or Fibonacci series numbers are involved with Venus/Earth. Explained more in a bit.

Rose Pattern
A picture is worth a thousand words. Over a period of eight years, Venus traes the rose pattern in her dance with the Sun. Figure 4 is an illustration of the astronomical plate from James Ferguson's Astronomy Explained upon Sir Isaac Newton's Principles, 1799 edition, Plate III. The little circle in the center represents the Earth; the pattersn represent the motion of Venus. (the below image is basically the same thing, the image from the book is in black and white.)

en.wikipedia.org...:Venus_pentagram.png

The Symmetry of Venus's cycles within cycles is breathtakingly beautiful. The five consecutive synodic cycles of Venus completes the rose shape. The word synod means "to come together." The loops are formed by her retrograde periods, which takes place at approximately 584-day intervals. The tip of the petals represents the Full Venus, and 584 days later she is painting another tip.

So every 584 earth days, Venus becomes as close to earth and than starts to move away. As you can see in the above image, these points make a petal in the rose shape, or if you like one of the 5 points in the pentagram/pentacle/pentagon.

Divine Proportion
The golden mean or rectangle is encountered when taking the ratios of geometric figures, such as the pentagon (five angles), decagon (10 angles) and dodecagon (12 angles). Plato and Pythagoras, in their mystery schools, considered the divine proportion, or golden mean (1.618) sacred. There are five cycles of Venus every eight years. Eight divided by five equals 1.625. The numerical value of the golden ratio is unending and usually rounded off to three decimal places. Italian mathematician Fibonacci, who lived around 1175-1250 CE, gave us the Latin numbers, the Fibonacci series, and the decimal system as opposed to the Roman numbers in use until the Thirteenth century. The Fibonacci series of numbers is 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144 . . . The addition of any two consecutive numbers results in the next number in the sequence. The ratio of two consecutive numbers in the series is the golden mean. As the numbers in the Fibonacci series increase, the decimal representation grows higher.

Ok that is a little background in the Golden Mean, Golden Ratio and Fibonacci series. Now let's put it all together with Venus. The author continues to talk about how people in our past have used the golden ratio to built works of art, sacred buildings and many aspects of life.

The Golden Mean of the Motion of Venus
That geometric ratio present in a beautiful body and face is also present in the motion of Venus. Venus orbits the Sun in 224.695 days, and the Earth orbits the Sun in 365.242 days, creating a ratio of 8/13. The ratio of the orbit of Venus in her dance with the SUn and the Earth equals the golden mean of 1.625 - 13 divided by 8. Five conjunctions of Earth and Venus take place every eight orbits of the Earth around the Sun and every thirteen orbits of Venus.

Quick Cycle Review
There are two main cycles. The first is the waxing and waning 584-day synodic cycle, which equates to about 18 months and is split into two 9 month periods. There are five phase cycles, which create the five eight-year cycles. Five phase cycles equate to 2,920 days, which equal eight solar rotations (8 x 365 = 2,920 days). Thus, each one of the five synodic periods within the complete cycle repeats at 2,920-day intervals, which is eight Earth years. The numbers five, eight, and thirteen are intrinsically connected to the Venus cycles and repated in the pentagram shape used to illustrate her cycle.

Now if you do not find this fascinating, i urge you to step away from the bible and marvel at what the universe has to offer, no offense.

What i find interesting is that the Conjunctions are split between 18 months, half of it being the morning star and the other half being the evening star. Is it a coincidence that the it takes 9 months for women to give birth? Also, you can find a connection between the moon and women's periods.