Why most ATS members will never fight the NWO: you are all talk

It's been said many times that anyone who has a place to sleep --- anyone who will eat today -- anyone who has access to medical assistance and to education

anyone who has electricity and running water

THAT person is amongst the top 8%

the lucky top 8%


Then we look at those in what is termed the Third World

We look at where and how they live (we'd call it 'mere existence')

we look at what they earn per hour (when they can get someone to pay them for their time)

we look at those who dig through mountainous rubbish dumps to earn a few cents

we look at those who live under dictatorships




and we learn what people will do and will tolerate, in order to survive


and ask ourselves if we're any different


When all the talk is done --- are we any different ?

Interesting hypothesis, one that I do not completely disagree with. However, I find the premise extremely narrow and limited. Different people have different "Trigger points" and will exhibit different reactions based on where on the scale the event falls versus their trigger point.

Human beings are some of the most quick witted animals on the planet and our "Fight or Flight" response is not simply conditioned, but is also innate and genetic. This is controlled by our Adrenal system and comes in multitudes of responses based on multitudes of factors.

Some people freeze up in combat, others find mental acuity and clarity that they've never experienced before. And, to be honest, there are no good previous indicators to determine what one's response will be save for previous experience in combat. Beyond that, continual operant conditioning can alter one's reponse over time - be it controlled, like basic training or uncontrolled, like being submerged in combat long enough to build an emotional immunity to the flight response.

To that end, I would state that seeing news reports (OR hearing them) about people in some far away state being killed by the military versus watching your neighbors being pulled from their homes and being shot on their front lawns, would illicit completely different responses in the same individual. IN other words, it is all in context. Sweeping generalizations of how one would rect or not react are purely speculative at best and bear very little semblance to the reality that one would face given their perceptions of the situation at hand. Additionally, proximity of events and the perception of how one is affected by them become a part of the operant conditioning that would most liekly change their response over a period of time.

reply to post by Dock9


When one looks at history and wonders why it is that the "rich" the "merchants" the "landed Earl" didn't do things to make things better for the peasant, the servant..........

All you need to do is look in the mirror and you'll know why.

Because in todays World, that person is you, and me.

I don't want to live like the peasant, and I don't want to end up on the other end of a peasant revolt started by idiots who are even further away from the daily reality of most people.

However, we as a group have some serious latitude of action that goes unused.

Originally posted by Dock9
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

Just because you are scared of death and unwilling to see that to be truly free, you have to be free of fear as well, doesnt mean the rest of us are i that same boat.

Now, now, now ....


No good getting nasty because you're ego's been pricked, is it ?

You don't know the first thing about anyone in this thread or what they've experienced, so why not step back and take a breath

after all, this isn't a thread about you now ... is it ?

My ego's been pricked? Sorry buddy, you dont hurt my ego. I take it from this reactionary response that yours was.

I know a bit of some of the people here, and I know what Ive experienced, which is plenty.

What I wonder, though, is if you even recognize the hypocritical nature of that response-you claim I dont know anyone or their experiences, yet you represent all as if they are cowards who would rather sacrifice their freedom out of fear of death .

I simply am pointing out, and plenty would agree, that fear of death comes down to fear of your own spirituality.

No, it isnt a thread about me. Never claimed it was. YOU are the one here claiming that you know how all would react.

reply to post by hyperion.martin


You forgot to include several things in your argument: the survival instinct, fear, anger, adaptation, camaraderie, and other human conditions and emotions. I too was in the military. I am not quite as cocky as you are when it comes to how I react when the bullets start flying. I have been shot once, and stabbed, as the victim of a crime. In each case my reaction was different. In both cases there was fear (anyone that does not have fear when bullets start flying has serious problems). When the bullets were flying, I was with a group of other men then were in the same predicament. There is a reason so many young people are attracted to gangs; there is power in groups, and groups allow INDIVIDUALS to do things they may not otherwise have the fortitude to do. Being part of Army aided my courage to defend myself, as well as the balls to move toward an objective.
I don't fully disagree with your argument, but it leaves a lot to be desired...

reply to post by Dock9


My father is a detective and I completely agree. It all comes to your personal breaking point. My breaking point unfortunately comes in the form of a gun to my face. Through years of therapy I have learned to release my emotions in the form of nonviolence so I don't believe I would break regardless of how bad things got through bills or laws, though maybe me being spied on would do it. Truth is not many of us are willing to do anything drastic. I have killed a deer before then ate it. If everyone did that you would be able to see how much changes inside your body by just taking that shot for something you know will help you.

(decided this is pointless chest thumping on my part)

[edit on 2010/3/18 by Aeons]

[edit on 2010/3/18 by Aeons]

reply to post by Dock9


How many people from the countries that are here on ATS have any of these issues without personally being the cause if they do?

People who even care to think about the NWO do not have hard enough lives to do anything about it.

The "plan" to live like off-grid peasants as a longterm lifestyle choice isn't one I'm going to embrace.

The apparent catch-all answer which "I-Hate-Governments" people seem to want us all to have.

Those with worse lives have way too immediate of concerns to worry about politics.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
reply to post by Dock9

 

People who even care to think about the NWO do not have hard enough lives to do anything about it.

reply to post by gwydionblack


That's how they do it in Germany (roughly) - and EVERYbody drives fast.

I'm no fan at all of Big Brother strapping me with limits...but the fact is, we live in a society, and of necessity, there will be restrictions. I'm not remotely ok with people driving 100 mph. Why should you be free to endanger me for no reason at all other than your personal pleasure?

To me, this quandary we are in is mainly one of ignorance and apathy. We aren't anywhere near needing to resort to violence. In the spirit of brevity, the answer lies in decentralization. We need to understand where our money goes and what it does when we choose to save a few bucks by using a big box store over a local one. We've willingly handed over our power for the sake of useless crap and general debauchery.

Americans, my countrymen, are intellectually dead. We've become like the bears of Yellowstone, who nearly died off when they got too easy access to food in the form of human trash. We are undone by our success. We don't read. We consume mindless media. People look at me with shock and pity when they learn I have no TV. This is who we are. I saw it when I was a teacher - we just don't value knowledge. We value Self, above all. This ethic came from a good place - the rebellion against tyranny - but we've got to be wary of going to extremes. We already have, really.

We don't need to take up arms. We need to shut off the tube, read more books, read more diverse and scholarly press, and ORGANIZE. We could drive the companies we claim to loathe out of business in days if we just had the will. But we don't. We're comfortable. Too comfortable. We live a life of largess only possible thanks to our forefathers' fortuitous access to lands, resources and labor, in addition to our ability to project military might.

Our lifestyle is on the way out. Who is going to decide what will replace it? Communities, or corporations?

All talk of literal physical fighting is moot. And considering how politically polarized we are, any kind of revolution would lead directly to some sort of civil war. I'm terrified of the Christian right making a move to fill the void. We must preserve the fundaments our system at all costs. We don't need upheaval. We need to opposite. We need to organize. We have all we need to starve the beast.





[edit on 18-3-2010 by TrueTruth]

[edit on 18-3-2010 by TrueTruth]

reply to post by gwydionblack


sorry - double post.

and oddly, it's the one that cam out edited...

weird

[edit on 18-3-2010 by TrueTruth]

You first tough guy, no seriously, if you can take on the tyrants and the machine with you're two percent friends, I will be all for it...you first friend. Too much sniffin' going on considering I have yet to see a concerted effort to affect change in the ways of the world as you describe it to be done.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


That's naive. Not all fighting is brainless barbarianism. The greatest generals in military history used their brains. You cannot fight wars by handing them flowers, you cannot stop an aggressor with reading them poetry, you can try to play their power games but then you would become one of them. Sometimes, fighting is the only answer when the situation comes up, which is why it is always the last resort. You can stand in front of an oncoming take or army unarmed to make a stand, but you won't be very useful dead, I'll opt for the grenade and a gun. Rather go down fighting than go down pistol whipped personally.

Sounds like you are blowing your own trumpet there matey! I would agree however, not all of us are capable of that Fight or Flight response when looking at the forma.

However.....I have also studied this in some detail....and for ATS Members here please note that it is proven that out of those 2%, 1.5% were Psychologically Psychopathic and very unstable people. 0.5% were classed as "Heros" but on further evaluation it appreared that some people just simple have higher thrill threshholds ...so if that 0.5% were not in war they would be jet engine testers, extreme sports fans.

However OP, you can't surley think that the way to fight an aggressive NWO is to continue, the same shamble conflicts that have been played out in various theatres of war for the past 5000+ years. I think anyone with brain has by now figured out one thing.

"What we have been doing as a species has not worked, yet we continue to repeat over and over and over again, the same fear mongering , violent beliefs that have led us to this point in time"

It has not worked, it won't ever work.

I like to think that ATS Stands for truth. (Apart from the shakey UFO vids) . And through discussion and debate and understanding and increasing our knowledge is how we fight an aggressive NWO. Not through fire power.

Change through talking and understanding does happen and succede every day in every walk of life. War, however, and as you can all see from history, never creates a solution.

As proof....Today's wars in the middle east are directly linked to WW2, which is directly linked to WW1 and you can follow conflict after conflict after conflict down the line.

So how do I....the non-psychopathic 98% ...fight an NWO. By learning the truthes of the world. By learning that there is very little to fear from "Different Ideas", by learning to understand my fellow man. By understanding that multiple cultures , whether you agree with them or not, can co-exsist with ease. By spreading peace through words and thoughts. By not judging .

I feel braver for the fact that I choose not to follow my family tradition and join the forces, and actually do something of use in the world.

You , OP, in all your experience, should really be trying to find another way without violence. And to look at what you are learning from people around you. Nothing is black and white. I would hope that you join us 98%. I think PHOBIA of war is the most healthy thing you could ever have...only if we all had such a Phobia.

What is it with all of the bravado and absolutes??? Some in this thread are making this out to be a "Either take gun and start killing people or be killed yourself!" To that I say, WTF!?!?

Take it easy everyone. We didn't get into this mess in 20 minutes and a 20 minute gunfight isn't getting us out of it either. Just like in any combat situation, there is usually an escalation of hostilities that evoke strike/counter-strike behavior in the participants with each escalating a little further until... it's over!

The reality of the situation is that any "War" with the "NWO" would procede along the same escalation scenarios as any armed conflict, assuming it even evolves into one. I have a sneaking suspicion that just like the revolutionary war, the "Common" man would suprise everyone by fighting curageously - if it came down to that point. There would be ample operant conditioning to prepare him/her for the eventual physical battle.

History, people, history... it has much to teach us... in regard to how these kinds of things get started, how they can be avoided and how people are likely to respond. It is just such a shame that no one is willing to take the time to learn from it.

I can understand the desire to fight especially coming from a society as militaristic and jingoistic as America's (no offense intended) but i feel in the end the people who choose to use violence may well end up becoming the very thing they intended to destroy.

You want to change the evil ways of the world but you just advocate doing exactly what the so called powers that be do. War, bloodshed, violence. Any resistance organisation or movement would need the support of the armed forces and if you don't have that, you don't stand a chance by using violence.

The real fight isn't on the Ground.

Its in the Mind.

The thing isn't about Money.

Its about MINDS.

The major memes have undergone a tremendous culling and aggregation.

There are just a subset of them left.

And the numbers who are the individual and group expression of those major memes are tremendous in numbers.

Some of those macro-memes are mutually exclusive. Some of them cannot play well with others.

Capitalism of the Mind has happened. And we are almost down to a few oligarchies of thought. The essential definitions of What We Are.

The final front fought on might be with bodies. But the real fight is ALL in Words.

Believe it.

Very interesting thread OP, and a good point has been made here I think.

I would like to ask you about the many documented combat situations which have involved untrained civilians and even children.

I don't profess to know much about combat other than first hand accounts I have read, recalled by veterans. And I totally respect your experience in this matter.

However, what I can gather from the stories I've come across is that one can rarely predict how a person, trained or not, will act under actual hostile fire.

To many fighting must be over something worth dieing for. Freedom and liberty are one of those things.

Even still most people aren't even talk. It's plain stupid to vocalize willingness to fight the PTB. Especially in todays world of everyone is a terrorist.

Seriously OP if you weren't on the list you are now. Simply because your thread title is quite provocative. I'd say anyone who is adverting how much they want to fight the PTB is ignorant and helping them publisize their anti human agenda.

Walk softly my friend walk softly, and don't reveal your big stick until you have to.

reply to post by hyperion.martin




I have seen the study and I personally found it amusing... but the folks i trained are all willing to fight... so I might be inclined to agree with a percentage of folks not wanting to fight.... but that is all...

phobias? been dead twice and it is no big thing. There are actually a great deal of us out here that will ..... when the time comes. A lot more than that study states... have a good day.