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California City Says Home Bible Group Must Get Permit

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posted on Mar, 18 2010 @ 02:46 AM
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This trend is definitly right in line with the New World Order wouldn't you think so? Im betting that soon this will apply to home weddings and kids birthday parties. I am so sick of the goverment taxing everything and supressing every aspect of my life.


Here is a snip>>>


RANCHO CUCAMONGA, Calif. -- For the second time in six months, the city has ordered a group of Christian worshippers who meet inside homes to get a permit or shut down.

It's the latest incident in which religious groups in Southern California have been targeted by cities for home gatherings, though many of those groups were eventually allowed to meet without obtaining permits.

Rancho Cucamonga is trying to halt Friday night meetings at a home after receiving a complaint in February from a neighbor that 40 to 60 people were gathering weekly in the San Bernardino County location.

Officials said the homeowner needs a conditional use permit by Good Friday, April 2, to operate a church in a residential area.

Pacific Justice Institute, a nonprofit legal defense group that specializes in conservative Christian issues, said the meetings were actually a Bible study group that usually draws about 15 people.

The permit requires public hearings, traffic studies and other costly procedures. Requiring one would be "manifestly absurd and unjust," according to a statement Tuesday from Brad Dacus, president of the Sacramento-based institute.

The city doesn't require permits for similar-sized gatherings, "everything from birthday parties to the weekend beer bash," added Matt McReynolds, an institute attorney.

His organization intends to file an appeal with the city and hopes to avoid going to court, McReynolds said.

Kurt J. Keating, the city's code enforcement supervisor, said the city is trying to restrict church services held in private homes, not home Bible studies.

"There's also some supporting facts that they are advertising themselves as a church over the public domain, such as the Internet," Keating said.

The group is affiliated with Shiloh Tabernacle Church, a local nonprofit run by Puredi Hillary Ministries Inc. According to its Web site, the church stresses "miracles of healing, deliverance from demonic oppression and possession, re-dedications and most importantly, salvations."

Last September, complaints by neighbors about traffic problems prompted the city to order Joe and Diana Johnson to get a church permit or shut down Christian gatherings at their home. The city eventually allowed the meetings to continue without a permit.

Also last year, San Diego County apologized to a pastor and his wife who were cited and told to get a permit for a weekly Bible study session that drew five to 27 people to their Bonita home.

Officials said the citation should never have been issued and a permit was not required.


opps. Edit add link
Bible Thumping

[edit on 18-3-2010 by Grayelf2009]




posted on Mar, 18 2010 @ 03:38 AM
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Originally posted by Grayelf2009
This trend is definitly right in line with the New World Order wouldn't you think so? Im betting that soon this will apply to home weddings and kids birthday parties. I am so sick of the goverment taxing everything and supressing every aspect of my life.



"In line with the NWO?" you ask.

Actually I think it's just common sense. This article is talking about a regular weekly meeting of 40-60 people in home. Any WEEKLY meeting of 40-60 people obviously has business overtones. They should meet in a place that has a parking lot and not clutter the neighborhoods.

I do not even think a permit for weekly meetings of this size would be fair to the neighbors. That just shows that the local gov. is looking for an opportunity to make money on the group rather than solve the neighborhood problem.

I think it's being a little ridiculous to assume you will be banned from holding a birthday party or wedding. If people cannot have common sense and courtesy toward their neighbors then they deserve to be regulated by gov.

When I held a large birthday party, we asked everyone to park at the shopping center and we ran a shuttle from the parking lot to the house.

If people cannot take personal responsibility to be considerate to one another, you will always have to be regulated and enforced by government arbitration.



posted on Mar, 18 2010 @ 04:27 AM
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reply to post by Alethea
 


I don't care if its 60 or 60,000. The idea that 60 people getting together must be for business purposes is flatly wrong. The idea that one needs permission from you or any other local government official to do absolutely anything on their own property that isn't causing pollution is also wrong. The point of property ownership is that you should not have to pay rent on it and should not have to ask for permission to carry out activities on your own property. Agreed?

The largest gatherings in the world are rarely for business. The largest gatherings I know of are things like the million man march... they are political. Then there is the big crowds in Mecca... clearly religious and not business.

You are basically saying it should be illegal to do something that is rude to neighbors. Its sad that people can be so confused about how cold and callous the world should be. Its cold and impersonal to anonymously report that your neighbors are being rude to the police then have them violate your neighbor's property rights and shut down the community that way. I have no interest in living around people who think that way, which is why I've moved a hell of a long way away from my previous neighborhood. Its the best decision I've ever made to be honest. Manners should be due to civilization acting in a civilized manner... not due to a robotic police state forcing "politeness" on strangers at gun point.

[edit on 18-3-2010 by truthquest]



posted on Mar, 18 2010 @ 04:36 AM
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reply to post by Alethea
 





Actually I think it's just common sense. This article is talking about a regular weekly meeting of 40-60 people in home. Any WEEKLY meeting of 40-60 people obviously has business overtones.

Agreed this is a business enterprise and should be treated as such, a group of people selling a dream no different to Amway, Usana etc.

Lol fortunately the Tupperware lady got out when the going was good.

The bible group can't use the excuse of prayer meetings as the city could easily show that the bible teaches that praying should be conducted alone in a closet.

Obviously the same rules should apply to parties and family gatherings as they would obviously be promoting beer and such.



posted on Mar, 18 2010 @ 04:51 AM
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the bible also says something about "when two or more are gathered in His Name"........

I agree though, 50 or 60 people is a little too much!! there's enough people there, they should use the church, or rent some space from a church I couldn't imaging having that many people in my home....let alone where all the cars would be parked at...

but, well....
some of those super bowl parties could be considered business operations also. what there's money changine hands, maybe a fee to get into the door....supposedly to cover the cost of the beer and yummies!!!
and, I've passed by houses that had what looked like 100 people there visiting, partying. so, well, why center on just the religious gatherings? heck, my wedding was held at a private home.....if little prayer meetings are banned, then that most definately should have been!!!

why just prayer meetings?? is someone afraid what will happen if two or more true believes actually do gather in His Name???



posted on Mar, 18 2010 @ 04:53 AM
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reply to post by Grayelf2009
 





The group is affiliated with Shiloh Tabernacle Church, a local nonprofit run by Puredi Hillary Ministries Inc. According to its Web site, the church stresses "miracles of healing, deliverance from demonic oppression and possession, re-dedications and most importantly, salvations."


This is another can of worms as technically they are offering a service which does not exist and are enticing people by deception.

I don't know about the laws in the US but in the UK Tarot readers Astrologers and their ilk have to display a disclaimer and inform their prospective clients that the service on offer (even if it's free) is for entertainment purposes only.

I am personally working hard in the UK to have the ruling apply to religious advertising, particularly Christianity which openly misleads the gullible by making false claims about their product.

It would be good to see all religious literature and advertising etc adhere to strict advertising guidelines. For example if they are going to promote a cure for being gay then they should have to be able to back up the claim with scientific proof.

Again, when it comes to selling jesus churches should be prevented from doing so unless they can provide evidence of their product.

If Pepsi were selling imaginary soda form their CEOs garage they would have their arses dragged into court a bit quick, the same rule should apply to churches that promote faith healing and such nonsense.



posted on Mar, 18 2010 @ 04:59 AM
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reply to post by truthquest
 





Then there is the big crowds in Mecca... clearly religious and not business.


Most definately is a business although admittedly not necessarily perceived as such by its' customers.

Remember, the US is at war with a terrorist "organization" and this organization is funded heavily by its' customers. That's right the customers are the people that were "sold" the dream and run to mecca to throw stones at a rock walk around in circles and part with any available funds they have for the privilege.

[edit on 18-3-2010 by yodagod]



posted on Mar, 18 2010 @ 05:00 AM
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Originally posted by dawnstar
some of those super bowl parties could be considered business operations also. what there's money changine hands, maybe a fee to get into the door....supposedly to cover the cost of the beer and yummies!!!
and, I've passed by houses that had what looked like 100 people there visiting, partying. so, well, why center on just the religious gatherings? heck, my wedding was held at a private home.....if little prayer meetings are banned, then that most definately should have been!!!



Super bowl parties are not held on a regular WEEKLY basis.
I doubt that many people could afford to invite 100 people WEEKLY for a party.
And I doubt weddings are a regular WEEKLY event held at the same home.

It matters not if it is religious. It is the pattern and the lack of consideration for the neighborhood. They are the ones who have had to complain. As I said before, people will always need governance if they do not develop some consideration for the rights of others. It is just basic courtesy, and since some people have no sense of boundaries, the law must make one for them.







[edit on 18-3-2010 by Alethea]



posted on Mar, 19 2010 @ 05:19 AM
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I already said, 50 or so people is a little much, even for a super bowl party, if there's that many people, they should be able to all pitch a little in and rent some space at a church or something.
but, arizona just tried to ban something like a metting of 7 members?? yes, there are people around the country that regularly have 7 or more people swinging by their house all at once for whatever reason!I've known people to have that many guests stopping by on a daily basis!

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"doubt that many people could afford to invite 100 people WEEKLY for a party. "
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that's where the business part comes in, if each person chips in $10, how much do they have for their party now???



posted on Mar, 19 2010 @ 05:34 AM
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i agree that they should either have to get a license, or hold their meetings somewhere else. actually...i would think it would be better to have the meetings elsewhere. having weekly meetings with 40-60 people has GOT to be a pain in the rear to the other people living around him...where do all these people park their cars? even if its a weekly meeting of only 15 like the article also mentioned...where are they parking? i can see with birthday parties and weddings and super bowls its not too bad, because theres only a lot of extra cars that one day and its not a regular occurrence. but when you're having all these people around every week, its probably irritating the other people that live around this house. if i was one of their neighbours you had bet i'd be calling someone to complain about it. maybe thats why they're being asked to change their procedures...maybe the neighbours were complaining about it to someone?



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 04:20 PM
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***UPDATE***

After the media spotlight shined on the city, the bureaucratic politicians generously decided to allow the Christian group to peaceably assemble without government permission:

Details: www.christianpost.com...




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