Very interesting thread. Many different theories thrown out there that I haven't thought of. I really like the dream vs real life theory personally.

To throw something totally different out there regarding this, I will fill you guys on some back "gossip" surrounding this. And also some of my own thoughts.

** I'll own it! I love me some gossip blogs!! **

Okay when this movie first started filming, I remember the Cruises moved to England and that the movie took well over a year to film (I want to say two but don't quote me on this) Things were very hush hush and very little was being "leaked" out about this movie.

Then SK died and I do remember them floating out the usual stuff.. the best movie made ever ect. And then small rumblings of "Gee SK didn't finish the movie so they had to patch it together. (this could have possibly been the start of some sort of spin control)

When the movie failed to deliver the box office numbers, the rumblings about this movie and production grew even louder. I remember then starting to hear things like Tom had to really convince Nic to do this movie, she didn't want to, thought it would be a bad career move. I also remember hearing/reading that she didn't really "get SK" and tried to follow what ever "vision" SK had for this and that she was very uncomfortable with the direction it headed in.(personally I got a real big vibe that she was very uncomfortable near SK and with this whole project).. then more rumblings about how Tom thought SK walked on water and became very devoted to him. And they developed a close relationship while filming.

Anywhoo.. they both took a big ole publicity hit from this movie.

Cut to 2001 when the sudden split was announced all hell broke loose
Rumors began to fly that this was part of their undoing.. and she miscarried during the whole "shock to the World" and all Tom would say is "Nic knew what she did" And the speculation started on who could possibly be the father, since Tom was supposedy unable to father a child.

Anthony Pellicano (aka henchman to the stars) supposedly had tapes of them arguing and distraught and quite worried about what information he had. (Anthony was later charged with wire tapping and tons of Hollywood was dragged into this mess and freaking out)

And to make things more interesting rumors began to fly that Tom was actually gay (not that there is anything wrong with that) and that it was the end of the arranged marriage, and Tom was quickly paired up with Penelopy Cruz.

Then before the Tom/Kat phase, word got out that meetings of "young starlettes" were being set up under the guise of "making a movie with Tom Cruise" but were actually wife hunting missions. Scarlett Johanson publicly said she went to one of these thinking it was about a movie but wised up when it was at the COS and she pretty much got the hell out of there. However Katie Holmes hitched her star to this ride.
Cue in the infamous couch jumping on Oprah and the firing of his long time PR person and hires his Sister (who is also COS) and all hell breaks loose. If this is another 10 year contract... time will tell. And Tom's crazy Xenu tape that was "released" where he looks crazy didn't help matters either.

Is any of this true? I don't know, but it does make you wonder just what he did to peeve off Xenu to be allowed to fall from grace.

So with that little back story added to this breakdown of the movie.. one has to ask which is most troubling, which is more interesting.. and perhaps life is most def stranger than fiction.

Originally posted by Justaposter
And the speculation started on who could possibly be the father, since Tom was supposedy unable to father a child.

I have a friend who was working in the Cedars Sinai fertility clinic at that time, and can confirm that Tom was the reason they couldn't have kids.

Then before the Tom/Kat phase, word got out that meetings of "young starlettes" were being set up under the guise of "making a movie with Tom Cruise" but were actually wife hunting missions. Scarlett Johanson publicly said she went to one of these thinking it was about a movie but wised up when it was at the COS and she pretty much got the hell out of there. However Katie Holmes hitched her star to this ride.
Cue in the infamous couch jumping on Oprah and the firing of his long time PR person and hires his Sister (who is also COS) and all hell breaks loose. If this is another 10 year contract... time will tell. And Tom's crazy Xenu tape that was "released" where he looks crazy didn't help matters either.

My favorite related conspiracy is that the COS used the frozen sperm of L. Ron Hubbard to impregnate Katie, making Suri the heir to the Scientology empire...

Originally posted by JoshNorton
My favorite related conspiracy is that the COS used the frozen sperm of L. Ron Hubbard to impregnate Katie, making Suri the heir to the Scientology empire...

Wait, I thought it was Stan Marsh?

Lifting the thread quite a bit... it's an interesting case.

First, I apologize for any possible overlap with previous posts.
Secondly, sorry for not describing the following findings in any particular order...

Some thoughts on the kubristic details. Not all of these are mine, the subject's already well covered elsewhere... I'm not going to point to the exact links or locations in the movie, I assume everyone interested takes the trouble of watching EWS and searching the web.

I'm writing this just to make my point that there are things in this movie you should study further. It's not just your everyday soft-whatever-relationship-dream-psychology-adventure film.

Generally, look for stuff whenever you see christmas decorations, christmas lights or red color.

One of the first things you may notice is when Bill enters the ”christmas party” and is ready to greet Ziegler and his wife, he walks into the room in a christ-like pose. You may freeze-frame him so that the 8-pointed star becomes a sort of halo around his head. A reference to christ or antichrist?

Elsewhere in the movie many characters address Bill with the words ”my god”. At the clinic Bill asks a boy ”Looking forward to Christmas?” The boy's looking directly at Bill and answers ”Yeah”. Does that sight test image on the background wall have standard letters or not?

While dancing, Szavost tells Alice Ziegler has a ”wonderful collection of Renaissance bronzes”. You can spot some of those small statues in various scenes. Bill has one on his windowsill at work. What do they represent?

At the shopping mall scene there's a ”magic circle” and a statement saying ”stairs to all floors”. You can actually see a magic circle with pentagrams (hanging from the ceiling). A reference? What about the barbie in a box with a pentagram?

The christmas theme – saturnian cult? The christmas stars in this film are octagrams and pentagrams.

Take a good look at various street numbers. Masonry and important numbers...

Also study many of the shop names in the street shots; Mancini's, The Artinis Gallery, Nicon House, Val D'or LTD, Donnelley House, Manning & Bowman, James Tobias Lomas Inc (at street number seven), to name a few...

This goes a bit far, but... As Bill is trying to escape the bald-headed man, he buys a magazine saying ”Lucky to be alive”. As he steps up the stairs to a cafe, watch at the staircase on the background. Christmas lights make an ”S” resembling the nazi SS mark. Also notice the light as he enters a small cafe – it's also in Ziegler's apartment. As he exits, there's a restaurant named ”Verona Restaurant”. Also, as Bill tries to call for a taxi, the taxi actually drives past him while he makes the famous salute. Could Kubrick hint to the theories about nazis that escaped the WWII aftermath? What about the ”A Hint of Lace” shop? Bill takes a long look at it.

The Ziegler party - the two girls: Who or what is Nuala Windsor? The British royals... Bill remembers the other girl was doing a photo session in Rockefeller Plaza and she got something in her eye, ”Just about half of Fifth Avenue”. What's located at the halfway of 5th ave? Or, does Rockefeller control just about half of the businesses on 5th ave? The girls also ask Bill whether he wants to go where the rainbow ends. Windsor – monarch – rainbow – mk ultra... or just the costume shop under the rainbow where a guy pimps his underaged daughter to a bunch of crossdressing asian guys?

All the paintings on the walls in this movie... I've tried to track them down. Some are works by Kubrick's wife, some are not. Take the mansion orgy scenes for example. Many viewers are offended by the action presented there; actually the scenes are shot so that the camera spins through at an angle that's nice for viewing the artwork. Many portraits. Who are they? Who painted them? (This is a challenge – can anyone here identify some of those?)
Also many portraits in Ziegler's pool room. Do they have any meaning?

What's the modern painting behind Bill in the elevator?

The Ziegler bathroom scene. Why did he do what he did, at this time, on christmas? Was it a ritual?Is that what Szavost was proposing to Alice when they were dancing? What's with the position of the woman and the woman in the painting? What's the painting above the armchair, a tree of life? Also, what do the pictures behind the bath tub represent? Human DNA chain? See the blue towels... triangular. Remind us of masonic symbols? The fireplace also has some nice decorations – any meaning for those?

Alice and Bill have many paintings showing sunflowers or garden ports.

Alice's seen through the mirror - ”Alice through the looking glass”. Look at the many hand positions she shows in front of the mirror.

There are also many other interesting hand positions in this movie. Keep an eye on Ziegler and Bill.

Back at the Ziegler's party, as Bill and one of Ziegler's men head to the stairs, you can spot inverse triangles (the angels statue's wings and the legs of a guest sitting by the table).

As Bill enters his office, one of the christmas cards at the reception shows clearly a pyramid with many levels.

Lou Nathanson's place is full of symbolism. The head with glowing eyes. The windows. The small buddha(?) statues on the tables (of which another disappears later)... The doorways...

The Nathanson bedroom scene has some interesting stuff. Fleur de lis all over the walls... The bed itself, the paintings, one of the Renaissance bronzes, Marion's necklace.

While Bill passes a christmas gift shop, you might notice inverse 6 three times. Also there's a goat in the window.

What's with the prostitute having many masks and a book titled ”Introducing Sociology” in her room?

How many times can you spot the tagged blue mailbox?

Nick Nightingale – a reference to nightingale (the myth) ?

When Bill enters Nightingale's bar, a sign says ”All exits are final”.

The costume shop has some interesting costumes. Later, as Bill returns, many things are in different places!

where's the rest of that interview?

Originally posted by doobiefillin
where's the rest of that interview?

Yup, thats only the first hour. I will keep looking for the remaining parts to see if anyone post them. If I come across them, I'll make sure to get them into this thread.

Here's an interesting fact that no one has brought out, although small.

At 1:30:20, there is an eye deliberately put on the back of Bill Harford (Tom Cruise) after he arrives home from the masked "party".

At 1:08:30, Leelee Sobieski whispers something inaudible to Bill Harford, with subtitles on she mentions he should pick a cloak with ermine lining.

Just thought I would shed some light on a topic that still holds people in mystification.

Bill=Odysseus (cunning when needed and hubris). Alice=Venus (see the hair/Venus de Milo statue) & (the poses in front of the mirror/Botticelli's Birth Of Venus). The daughter is named Helena=Hellenization the spread of Greek culture through the world. The story is Bill's mythological hero cycle. His ultimate boon is his discovering he was married all along to a goddess, hence the title. The film is a myth set in the modern day.

Google monomyth and you'll see EWS adheres to it point to point.

Some other references and jokes

Harford-The book Full Metal Jacket was based on was written by Gustav Hasford. Just a joke I think.

The orgy=mythological labyrinth

The New York Post-the headlines read LUCKY TO BE ALIVE and COOL . . . references to Greek Chorus as are the signs in the department store in the last scene.

The Roman poet Ovid is mentioned by the Hungarian and some myth characters from his work are alluded to: Nightingale, Echo (characters frequently repeat what was just said to them in an odd way) and Narcissus (mirrors!).

The Hungarian's name Sandor Szvatos I think references Hungarian psychoanalyst Sándor Ferenczi who pioneered behavioral activation to help his patients. Alice's problem is sexual frustration and Sandor offers to help her with that.

There are some Jungian references to architecture and where Bill's sex encounters take place in relation to the floor/level.

The story is set in New York in name only. It is a mythological world not the real New York.

it is fiction, right ?

referencing something does not make it factually accurate or real

I don't expect to meet hobbits in the woods either....

I just learned that the mansion in EWS was once owned by the Rothschilds, this is extremely disturbing, as I'm sure the scenes we saw in that film, at one point took place in a very real and horrific fashion.

The fact that the movie was shot in this location is a clear indication that Kubrick intended to bring the truth of the illuminati to light, and for this he paid with his life.

This is easily one of my favorite movies of all time, very deep and complex. There is so much to it, you can analyze things all day. I do, however, find it funny that people feel this need to look for "Illuminati symbolism" when there really is no need. There isn't much that is hidden in the film, it's all right there if you pay attention and have a critical enough mind to analyze a complex film.

If you watch the film you get the message, simple as that. It says a lot of things on many levels but I don't think any of that has to do with giving us secret clues about the illuminati.