Automatic v. Semi-Automatic?, page 2

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reply posted on 21-3-2010 @ 03:48 AM by Reverend M.

Amigo, if you can't rack that next round in a second or so, you shouldn't be using that Remington 870, ok? If you're that unfamiliar with your weapon, you need to switch to something you are totally comfortable with. Training, will eliminate that "delay time".

Also, this whacko, comes out firing 5 rounds of .40 at me, is most likely to totally miss me. Most criminals, are lousy shots. He's blazing away, and hitting all over the place. He's stressed, panicked, you just SHOT at him. You, should be more cool, having thought through and practiced for this situation often.

That was always the secret of the Big Guns of the Wild West. It wasn't the guy who shot first who won. It was the guy who stayed cool under pressure, and actually took the trouble to aim. Wyatt and the boys would tell you that if you were to ask them.

Practice, rehearse, train, go out to the range and stay tuned up.

As for the wall? Well, home remodeling guys gotta eat too. I'd rather spend a couple grand fixing the damage to my home, than be taking up space in a box 6 feet down. Ya know?

reply posted on 21-3-2010 @ 04:07 AM by Binder

reply to post by Aliensdoexist

He he, you stole my reply aliens. My point about a novice with a pump scatter gun was hypothetical. If I handed a total noob a Beretta P92, and a Mossberg pump, and then started shooting at him he'd drop the pistol because the operation of the pump is self evident. Pump it, pull the trigger, period. Even if it already had a round chambered, so what. It hits the ground, and the next is ready to roll. If you were unfamiliar with the Beretta you could easily mistake the de-cocker/safety, the takedown lever, and the slide release for each other.
In experienced hands a shotgun IS absolutely the end-all-be-all CQB weapon. (Ok excepting grenades LOL!) You can blow doors off hinges, and punch through class IV hard body armor with the same weapon. If you don't want to over penetrate use lighter shot. If you want to blow a hole in a motor block use 1 oz. magnum HPBT high velocity slugs. There's also a shell for everything in between including less than lethals, and flash bangs. Name another weapon with that kind of versatility?
As far as "what if" scenarios DOcean didn't mention anything that wouldn't be exactly the same concern with any firearm, or a sling shot for that matter. ALWAYS know 100% what your target is, and what is beyond it before pulling the trigger. That just gun safety 101. If you have even a moments doubt don't tap that round. If you want to ID your target at night(very good idea) put a tac light on your weapon so you light up what your about to shoot, duh. They even make strobes to blind your target initially to give you time to ID before they can react. Better to scare, and temporarily blind little Suzy than put an errant round through her. Teach her to sneak around at night anyway.

If you are afraid of overpenetration in close quarters with family mixed in like a home invasion etc... Think of oblique angles to hit your mark instead of just "firing through" like usual. For instance: Bad guy is directly in front of you. Little Suzy is just behind him and only slightly to your right. Of course you want to take out bad guy without peppering Suzy. Side step to the right, and toward bad guy, and aim for his right shoulder(on your left). Now the shot will scatter enough to probably leave Mr. Bad guy minus a face, and little suzy untouched. Plus if you practice with your preferred shot gun you should know the pattern it throws, and know how far what loads will spread, and at what ranges. Most shoot outs happen at a distance of less than 10'. At 10' with a normal choke, and say #7 or #8 multi purpose load your spread will only be 2 or 3 inches. If you have a bird gun with a tighter choke it will hardly spread at all in 10'. I use #7 multi purpose for home defense because of penetration issues, and at close range a tight light shot still sizzling at near original muzzle velocity is devastating, ie. not survivable. Buck shot, and slugs are for greater distances, and I wouldn't recommend in a home defense gun. As for it taking 1 or 2 seconds to chock another round in it. All I have to say is have you ever seen a professional skeet shooter? They can knock 4 or 5 clays out of the air in 2 seconds. I'm no pro, but in a bad situation I could drop 2 or 3 bad guys in 2 seconds. It takes about 3/10 of a second for the average user familiar with his/her weapon to jack another round in. Plus a lot of pumps, especially old Winchesters, are designed to hold the trigger down, and simply work the pump. You can unload it as quick as you can work the pump, which is FAST when you're scared. If you weren't picky about where the rounds were going you could probably unload all 6 to 8 rounds in about 3 seconds. So if TSHTF in my house I will be grabbing that trusty old Winchester model 18, and Mr Badguy better give his heart to Jesus, cuz' his butt will be mine.

reply posted on 21-3-2010 @ 04:56 AM by PaddyInf

On a military firearm the option for automatic or semi auto is desiarable (assuming we're talking assault rifles here). A machine gun doesn't need semi auto, a sharpshooter rifle doesn't need fully auto.

Semi automatic is used for pretty much everything. Even at close range the fraction of a second between quick semi auto shots is enough to allow some recoil recovery, meaning more rounds on target. Over the years I've found that fully automatic is being used less and less by me and my riflemen. Without plenty of practice fully auto accuracy goes to pot. Plus you have to carry all that ammo. At anything past 10m I find all you do is turn lead into brass.

This is not to say that automatic doesn't have its' place. It can be useful during room and trench clearance for example. However in these stressful situations you need to be careful that the mag doesn't empty mid burst. Under stress you can find that you will either forget to change mags, leaving you with an empty weapon, or you will change mags every couple of bursts just to be on the safe side, leaving you with a pouch full of half-full mags.

By the way, for those who advocate 3 round burst options - try using the burst control device between your thumb and middle finger. Appropriately used it will control the length of burst nicely

reply posted on 21-3-2010 @ 10:58 AM by Beinion

I appreciate the insight, as my experience with fully automatic weapons is pretty severely limited to what I've seen in the movies (though as a cinema buff, I'm well aware that 99.99% of it is fake). I wondered if there were distinct advantages of one over the other, and now I know. Thank you to all who responded.

reply posted on 22-3-2010 @ 03:58 AM by ahmonrarh

Originally posted by rcwj1975
Full-auto is pretty useless in MOST enviroments. Its a great tool for laying suppressive fire, but outside that, for most soldiers/shooters, its an all to easy way to burn off WAY to many rounds that will be needed later.

Semi Auto versions of most weapons systems is ideal. A burst system can be valuable depending on the situation, but I have seen in real world operations that once you get good trigger control with a semi-auto, you can phase out the burst options.

A HUGE downside to auto or burst is the beating your weapon takes. If your in an arena where repair or replacement are as easy as going to your armor, then fine, but for a long haul operation you need reliability and endurance of every part, and that comes with semi-auto set ups.

Bottom line...it may look cool to shoot full auto, it may feel cool to shoot full auto, but the reality is semi auto is hands down the most effective and reliable means on a personal weapons system...outside your obvious machine guns...but they have their own purpose.

what he says, takes the words from my pie hole.

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