Blackmail : Keep Your Friends Close, Keep Your Enemies Closer, The Threat of Subversion Through Fear

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

Women find their way right out of my life rather quickly if they try manipulating me.

I feel ya. On a personal note, I commented towards this in another thread of yours about my ex-wife. She was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, one step away from schizophrenia, she too was a master manipulator. Blackmail and withholding was the easy game, threats of suicide and attempts, was the game changer. I went through a bout of PTSD after that chapter in my life. The body can only take so much stress.

Trust me a woman will be shown the door by me as well at the first sign of manipulation.

On a lighter note my pops always says, women, they have half the money and all the $#&*@, what are you gonna do.

Do without if they try to use it against you is what I tell him.

edit to add: not just a woman but anyone, will be shown the door swiftly.

[edit on 18-3-2010 by timewalker]

Originally posted by andy1033
It does not have to be true info. A women wanted to blackmail me or she would make up horrendous stuff up about me. I had no money and did not want to know her, so she did.

The expletive scum has practically got away with murder, as my life was totally ruined.

If your reading this scum, your trash beyond any words in our rubbish english language.

I know what you mean, very much so, and it is usually because of psychological issues.

People in relationships will do odd things, when they believe they can.

So, this thread is something to enlighten fellow ATS'ers to how to stop it.

I will go into the stopping of it at another time as the thread develops.

But I've included a host of information towards that end already.

Originally posted by timewalker
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

Women find their way right out of my life rather quickly if they try manipulating me.

I feel ya. On a personal note, I commented towards this in another thread of yours about my ex-wife. She was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, one step away from schizophrenia, she too was a master manipulator. Blackmail and withholding was the easy game, threats of suicide and attempts, was the game changer. I went through a bout of PTSD after that chapter in my life. The body can only take so much stress.

Well, been there, done that, except I never fall into that game.

Have a different ex-girlfriend who tried the "commit suicide" blackmail threat.

She had "daddy issues", at twenty-four, acted like a thirteen year old.

Not going to go into all the details, but when you deal with psyche patients, you know who is serious and who is not, and while I dealt with psyche patients as a Security Officer, after my relationship with this woman, acting like a spoiled brat, I always know when someone is bluffing.

And I do mean always.

She tried that game with me, via telephone, because of a tantrum, threatened to slit her wrists, and I told her to wait until I got home, I'd hand her the knife.

Drama Queen, period.

And I do not tolerate that behavior, I'm cold and heartless.

See, to me, if you're going to commit suicide, you do it, or you do not.

Period.

Calling someone, you are trying and vying for attention, she was trying to use manipulation, via one of the lowest means, blackmail through threat of suicide, something I deem as right up their with false accusation of rape.

Now, I am not saying all people claiming suicide are blackmailing people, nor am I saying all claims of "rape" are false, but there is a distinct difference.

There are men and women who will go so low as to cry wolf about these things, in order to control people, because of bi-polar disorder, paranoid schizophrenia, and a host of other psychological illnesses.

Originally posted by timewalker
Trust me a woman will be shown the door by me as well at the first sign of manipulation.

On a lighter note my pops always says, women, they have half the money and all the $#&*@, what are you gonna do.

Do without if they try to use it against you is what I tell him.

edit to add: not just a woman but anyone, will be shown the door swiftly.

[edit on 18-3-2010 by timewalker]

So, you can see, I understand how this topic for the thread happens, from a unique standpoint, I've seen it through various means, being on the receiving end.

I felt it was about time to break the ice on some deep, dark secrets.

Because it is enough for once that these people get away with crime.

You will like the thread below, on BTS, in Relationships.

Stop Trying To Change Me : For Men and Women, Single, Married, or Otherwise

[edit on 19-3-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Wait a second, I'm going to ask you, because I read and replied, but I want clarification.

In your thread about the couple having 911 called on them, you were pro-freedom, of our choice of doing things which are not legal, but anti-state in regards to the actions of those Law Enforcement Officers actions, yet within this thread, you made reference to the lessening of secrecy as a means to eliminate fear.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Greed really isn’t the answer, what you horde and don’t need or use is really just depriving someone else of a happiness and quality oriented life.

Sharing is important and sharing knowledge most important of all.

A world without secrets would in fact be a world without fear.

I included your thread below for anyone else to peruse, if they choose to do so.

Loud sex enough for cops to search your home, court rules

The reason I am asking for clarification, is because of your stance within your thread, plus what you have said in this thread here, because we as a nation, America, and even in the world, through World Government, have such controversial foreign and domestic policies.

So, in essence, I'm opening this thread up a bit, both because of your thoughts, which I do respect, but as well because of the topic of this thread, blackmail.

And of course, because vice, and drugs, are usually very much a part of the blackmail process, in some regards depending on whether it is family, friends, and or a Government (take your pick of which one), when it comes to the illict nature of drugs, and their usages and the societal inhibitions of different nations over another, and the rather Puritanical outlook other nations have when it comes to that particular vice.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Vice

Vice is a practice or a habit considered immoral, depraved, and/or degrading in the associated society.

In more minor usage, vice can refer to a fault, a defect, an infirmity or merely a bad habit.

Synonyms for vice include fault, depravity, sin, iniquity, wickedness and corruption.

The modern English term that best captures its original meaning is the word vicious, which means "full of vice".

In this sense, the word vice comes from the Latin word vitium, meaning "failing or defect".

Vice is the opposite of virtue.

Vice is also a generic legal term for criminal offenses involving prostitution, lewdness, lasciviousness and obscenity.

Illegal forms of gambling are also often included as a vice in law enforcement departments that deal with gambling as a crime.

Of course, the definition of vice above, is for the good of the thread, because I believe we both understand and know the nature of vice.

With you being a "Roman" and myself being a "Greek".

For those of this thread, who do not know, ProtoplasmicTraveler and I do not see eye to eye, in regards to the nature of this particlar vice, drugs.

As well, ProtoplasmicTraveler, I invite you over to my newest thread.

Of M.I.C.E. and Men : United Nations, Betrayal of Country, or Currying Favors for Respect?

[edit on 19-3-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

Divide and Conquer, my friend, divide and conquer, it is a means to an end.

In so many ways the divide and conquer principle is so easy to foster.

I posted this to another thread today but I think it's relevant here too.

Not long ago I and other members’ authored threads about Cass Sunstein Obama’s Information Czar and his call for cognitive infiltration of government of proponents and supporters of the Federal Government to infiltrate 9-11 and other conspiracy groups.

At the heart of Cass Sunstein’s call for this was his academic work on what he calls ‘crippled epistemology’.

At the heart of his theory Sunstein feels that a person develops and has crippled epistemology when they reject traditional mainstream media news sources and government spokespeople out of a lack of trust in those sources and rely instead on alternative news sources that they do trust.

So at the very heart of his academic paper and quest is the belief that if you don’t trust news sources that are deemed ‘reliable’ by others there is something wrong with you.

In other words he identified exactly what in his estimation causes so many people to believe outrageous stories and lies in the mainstream news media is simply because the people trust those medias as a source.

If that trusted media reports it then they simply accept it as the truth no questions asked on its face value simply because they trust the source.

That is what is at the heart of the propaganda system and how it works is the knowledge that if people trust the messenger they will trust the message!

If they don’t trust the messenger that they won’t trust the message, so once a messenger is trusted people will basically believe anything that comes from that messenger regardless of how factual it is or isn’t.

They won’t investigate and they won’t question.

The only thing then that stands in the way of this always working are alternative sources of the same information who might report it in a more truthful or factual version. So the propaganda experts would very much like to shut down those alternative news sources by discrediting them through cognitive infiltration with the specific aim of discrediting the source and not the message.

In propaganda the sources is everything and if people trust the source you can get them to virtually believe anything.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Since ATS does not really appreciate people duplicating posts from thread to thread I am linking it to the original thread as an external source!

There be more than one way to skin a cat my brave Spartan friend!

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

In your thread about the couple having 911 called on them, you were pro-freedom, of our choice of doing things which are not legal, but anti-state in regards to the actions of those Law Enforcement Officers actions, yet within this thread, you made reference to the lessening of secrecy as a means to eliminate fear.

I don't really see the conflict in statements here but then again I might be missing something.

In regards to that particular couple what they were doing inside their home during moments of intimacy are more or less their business UNLESS this is a big UNLESS sexual attitudes radically change to where people become more tolerant of a wide range of sexual practices.

Sex has been used as a control moral issue for a very long time.

Even today the differences in European sexual attitudes and American sexual attitudes are enormous.

Americans are by and large much more prudish and inhibited when it comes to nudity and sexuality than Europeans are.

Muslim nations are even more repressive in their attitudes towards sexual conduct, while places like Brazil make all but the Europeans in Amsterdam and some other Nordic countries seem puritanical.

How to have, when to have, where to have sex has been a control factor for religions and goverments for a very long time.

Most people in fact have rather unhealthy attitudes in regards to sex that are interwoven with a lot of guilt and shame and predispositions that actually would take a whole heck of a lot of fun out of it in my opinion.

Further the attitude regarding things like Marijuana vastly differ in certain parts of the world. In Amsterdam marijuana hashish and many other substances which are controlled and illegal here in the United States are perfectly legal there.

There is far less street crime regarding drugs and drug use as a result.

Prostitution is also legal in Amsterdam and there is far less predatory sexual behavior such as rape and incest as a result.

So much of what is happening here in the west is a chaos that is being artificially created by making personal preferences illegal.

I don't think vice is as accurate a description as personal behavior.

Many people have formed very hard oppinions and perspectives on things that they have in fact never tried or done based on being 'told' it is ammoral and a vice.

That's all about controlling people and who controls people is the State and they control them for a purpose and that purpose is called productivity and profit for the state.

They often sell it as a form of protection to the people who have developed hard oppinions and perspectives without any first hand interaction or knowledge themselves many of whom then don't want to ever experiment or discover because they believe there is some added virtue in not indulging those things in order to gain absolution from the state or a religious insititution.

As a person who is fluent and experienced in many fetishes I can honestly say that people do themselves a gross disservice by dismissing and rejecting certain things out of hand based on bad information that is really just designed for someone else to be able to control and profit.

Part of evening the playing field against the state is yes, very much going ahead and living freely and then raising awareness when the state looks to profit off the fact that some people are living freely.

Either we own our bodies or the state owns our bodies.

If we own our bodies we should be allowed to put anything into them and enjoy them in any way as long as it is not hurting someone else.

In that particular case two consensual and consenting adults were not hurting anyone else beyond their sensibilities based on instilled perspectives and instilled moral values for the sake of profit and control.

The fact that the latter imagines some one is being hurt through these actions doesn't in fact mean anyone is being hurt with these actions.

The fact that so many people do have utter comtempt for and fear of people who enjoy different things than they do and it is often entirely based on no first hand interaction or knowledge of their own but is simply an instilled perspective is in fact demonstration of a very uneven playing field.

So no there is no contradiction at all and by the way many people would disagree when it comes to what desensitizes and what enhances sensations as opposed to your opinions and they would likely disagree based on a broader range of experiences.

Multi orgasmic is nice for some but for others its more about the mental interplay and the dynamics that creates.

Its like my grandparents would say when I refused to eat my peas, come on try it you might like it, how can you say you don't like something if in fact you have never tried it!

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

In so many ways the divide and conquer principle is so easy to foster.

Agreed, indeed, agreed.

Divide and Conquer : Political Ideology of the Power Elite, Selling The Peace, War Is The Motive

They know that to kill America, and other countries, they have to gut us.

There are far too many people, for their liking, who are no longer listening to their tyrannical tirades of peace, love, and brotherhood, being a false paradigm, and instead of actually doing the right damned thing, instead they seek to silence the voice of discontent, and therefore increase the tyranny, the stranglehold, if you will, of the iron fist.

And it seems, they take off that velvet glove, because if they cannot control us, no one else will, other than our own rebellious natures, silencing us.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Since ATS does not really appreciate people duplicating posts from thread to thread I am linking it to the original thread as an external source!

There be more than one way to skin a cat my brave Spartan friend!

Well, you can always link your threads, if it is fact in regards to the topic.

And as far as ATS is concerned, I believe it is merely offsite posting they are more concerned with, and that inner-posting, and pointing towards direction of the free-flow of information, is always welcome, especially here.

Indeed, many ways to skin a cat, but rare are the abilities to silence a lion.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

I don't really see the conflict in statements here but then again I might be missing something.

I merely saw not completely a conflict, but that you might have more to say, and that my thoughts on the topic, verses yours, might have disuaded you from sharing your thoughts more at length, and that vice might be an open venue to speak more about the nature of the issue at hand.

Blackmail.

Is not the threat itself of not abiding by a law, in essence blackmail via society?

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
In regards to that particular couple what they were doing inside their home during moments of intimacy are more or less their business UNLESS this is a big UNLESS sexual attitudes radically change to where people become more tolerant of a wide range of sexual practices.

I never had an issue with their sex, loud or otherwise, it was to me, perfectly fine.

It was however that their crime of illegal, or immoral, drugs, and being upset.

With regards to what happened there I highly respect those Officers.

Some might have chosen instead to violate the citizens, and blackmail them.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Sex has been used as a control moral issue for a very long time.

Even today the differences in European sexual attitudes and American sexual attitudes are enormous.

Americans are by and large much more prudish and inhibited when it comes to nudity and sexuality than Europeans are.

Of this I agree, the Western mind, is far more prudish, than the Eastern mind.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8b5e2db97ab8.jpg[/atsimg]

The Multi-Orgasmic Man: Sexual Secrets Every Man Should Know

The book above examines just how sex is a different thought process between both of those different cultures, the Eastern mind and the Western mind.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Muslim nations are even more repressive in their attitudes towards sexual conduct, while places like Brazil make all but the Europeans in Amsterdam and some other Nordic countries seem puritanical.

How to have, when to have, where to have sex has been a control factor for religions and goverments for a very long time.

Most people in fact have rather unhealthy attitudes in regards to sex that are interwoven with a lot of guilt and shame and predispositions that actually would take a whole heck of a lot of fun out of it in my opinion.

I agree with you about that, but that is unfortunately, exactly why it is used as a vice, and when it comes into play with blackmail, especially in regards to the Chinese, like the book I referenced, The Tao of Spycraft.

Because we have sexual taboos, they can and often are, exploited.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Further the attitude regarding things like Marijuana vastly differ in certain parts of the world. In Amsterdam marijuana hashish and many other substances which are controlled and illegal here in the United States are perfectly legal there.

There is far less street crime regarding drugs and drug use as a result.

Prostitution is also legal in Amsterdam and there is far less predatory sexual behavior such as rape and incest as a result.

Agreed, but at the same time, I do not see legalization as a viable option.

Society itself, has to change, either the West opens up, and the East closes down.

But this is the crux of just how a vice is used, and why, when it comes to blackmail.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
So much of what is happening here in the west is a chaos that is being artificially created by making personal preferences illegal.

I don't think vice is as accurate a description as personal behavior.

Many people have formed very hard oppinions and perspectives on things that they have in fact never tried or done based on being 'told' it is ammoral and a vice.

Well, I see your point, but when at age ten, my stepfather overreacted to my innocent question of what the difference between legal and illegal drugs was, and threatened to break my neck, and leave me for the trashmen, it did a good thing, at least as I see it, a hard lesson.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
That's all about controlling people and who controls people is the State and they control them for a purpose and that purpose is called productivity and profit for the state.

They often sell it as a form of protection to the people who have developed hard oppinions and perspectives without any first hand interaction or knowledge themselves many of whom then don't want to ever experiment or discover because they believe there is some added virtue in not indulging those things in order to gain absolution from the state or a religious insititution.

As a person who is fluent and experienced in many fetishes I can honestly say that people do themselves a gross disservice by dismissing and rejecting certain things out of hand based on bad information that is really just designed for someone else to be able to control and profit.

Fetishes are one thing, illegal actions are a whole other action, in my opinion.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Part of evening the playing field against the state is yes, very much going ahead and living freely and then raising awareness when the state looks to profit off the fact that some people are living freely.

Either we own our bodies or the state owns our bodies.

If we own our bodies we should be allowed to put anything into them and enjoy them in any way as long as it is not hurting someone else.

In that particular case two consensual and consenting adults were not hurting anyone else beyond their sensibilities based on instilled perspectives and instilled moral values for the sake of profit and control.

The fact that the latter imagines some one is being hurt through these actions doesn't in fact mean anyone is being hurt with these actions.

The fact that so many people do have utter comtempt for and fear of people who enjoy different things than they do and it is often entirely based on no first hand interaction or knowledge of their own but is simply an instilled perspective is in fact demonstration of a very uneven playing field.

So no there is no contradiction at all and by the way many people would disagree when it comes to what desensitizes and what enhances sensations as opposed to your opinions and they would likely disagree based on a broader range of experiences.

Multi orgasmic is nice for some but for others its more about the mental interplay and the dynamics that creates.

Its like my grandparents would say when I refused to eat my peas, come on try it you might like it, how can you say you don't like something if in fact you have never tried it!

While I do see your point, is not our body supposed to be a temple?

Put into it what you want out of it, correct?

I am not getting moral on you, so much as asking you, if we are to live long and valuable lives, not necessarily for the state, but for ourselves, is it not unhealthy to compromise our health, and ourselves as well, if we not only break the law, but compromise the values of our mother and father via doing something which is not only inhibited by society, whether we agree with it or not, and as well the country we reside within?

Personally, I could care less for the War on Drugs or the D.E.A., but this is not because I want drugs legal, or vices, but because I do not believe in a false doctrine of domestic and foreign policy colliding when it comes to them, and their bigger brother, the C.I.A.

Let us call it, a difference of policy, because if you want to stop illegal action, go to the source, and eliminate it, but those in power, know of the source, and either they have their hands tied when it comes to the International Community, through the bureaucracy of the United Nations, or they intentionally ignore it to get close to intelligence sources, thereby not only allowing it to happen, but sponsoring it through complicit non-action, therefore not only allowing it, but keeping it flowing via an unimpeded measure.

So, a form of Governmental blackmail, if you will, sits for the people who do not want it, over those who do, and a double-standard, nay a triple-standard of do not as we do, but do as we say, and damn well like it, or lump it, but you're going to pay for it, both ways, exists.

If we know the Golden Triangle and the Golden Crescent exist, are we not allowing them to import their detestable drugs, via not going after them completely, and eliminiate the source altogether?

[edit on 19-3-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


This is where the Romans and Spartans disagree on some philosophical points. Marcus Aurelius who espoused Roman Stoicism as a virtue believed that the longest life is equal to the shortest life in part because we all end up dead and once dead well…

So yes the body is a temple but it is the individual’s temple.

I had the rare privilege of seeing the legendary George Burns doing his standup act at Caesar’s Palace (of course) in Atlantic City who was in his 98th year of life at that time.

Part of his skit was going to see his new doctor (he had outlived his old doctor) and his new Doctor asked him:

Doctor: Mr. Burns is it true you still smoke a dozen cigars every day?

George Burns: Yes that’s true!

Doctor: Mr. Burns is it true you still drink a half dozen glasses of wine every day?

George Burns: Yes that’s true!

Doctor: Mr. Burns is it true you still are making love to young women in their 20’s every day and every night and all night too?

George Burns: Yes that’s true!

Doctor: You know if you cut out all those cigars, stopped drinking so much wine, and stopped cavorting with women to all hours of the night and the wee hours of the morning you could probably live another 20 years!

George Burns: If I stopped smoking, stopped drinking and stopped romancing the ladies all night long why the heck would I want to live another 20 years!

Life is a sentient experience and you only live it once, so you might as well live it up and live it large, in fact I believe if you aren’t living on the edge you are taking up entirely too much space!

Marcus Aurelius is right in that the longest life is equal to the shortest life and while we can consider and many do those people who love us or otherwise depend upon us who hope for our longevity for those reasons, they as well lead a temporal existence.

So many people have the same dream vacation spot of “Someday Isle”, someday I will do this, some day I will do that.

Tomorrow is guaranteed to no one. My best advice is to live your life right now!



[edit on 19/3/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


While I can most certainly admire George Burns, especially for making it to the ripe old age of ninety-eight, and find his humor inspiring, as well as his outlook as a positive message, I cannot agree, but then again he grew up in a time when pesticides were not prevalent in his cigars.

And what of longevity, if not for finding one woman to settle with?

I do admire the Romans, at least for their tenacity of spirit and will to fight.

But the decadence and debauchery, is a completely different thing.

I guess that is where the Athenian's differ from Spartan's.

The Spartan's were bred for but one purpose, warfare, while the Athenian's had their temples, and their boy loving ways, and they were in fact closer to Rome, in that regard, and I prefer the Spartan way.

And the Temple of Delphi was nothing more than a vipers nest.

Many do not know that the Temple of Delphi was a nexus point, where priests bought information from travelers, and their slaves, and played those taboos against each nation, state, and or city-state.

And today, the moderan version of Delphi, is none other than the C.I.A.

While sex is most assuredly fun, it is for procreation, and the recreational factor is of the mind, while the body gains pleasure, the body is gaining exercise.

Marcus Aurelius, was someone to respect, but so were many men throughtout history.

And if I live my life, and seek nothing in return, but honest effort?

Leonidas knew about Delphi, he knew that to take men to Thermopylae, he would have to step aside the corruption, and walk as a free man.

With 300 other Spartan's, he broke free, and lead a revolt of sorts.

But most people do not know as well that there were 7,000 other Greek's.

And with them, 4,000 Helots, and Leonidas knew of their fear of death.

Sending away the 7,000 other Greeks, he knew they would live, to serve later.

He saw death as a release from this vessel we call a body, in service of state.

His goal, the unity of all of Greece, against the tyrant, Xerxes.

It seems that the rise of Persia is again at hand, and the ever looming arm of the decadent buying off of politicians is on the rise, like Greece, and with this country, America being the new Rome in Government, and that of the Old Greece, in many states disjointed through an economic failure, it seems we are indeed as a nation compromised.

If Washington D.C. compromises us though who will lead us against the financial blackmail?

The Creature from Jekyll Island : A Second Look at the Federal Reserve

[edit on 19-3-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Another interesting thread! Now, the concept of blackmail, and what to think about the whole thing? To me personally, I view blackmail as a means to insure that a particular person one has as a friend, business associate, or any form of acquaintance is above board with you at all times as they expect you to be with them. Ideally, I view blackmail as an act of cowardice, however, I live in the real world and not an ideal one. One must protect themselves at all times. There are wolves in sheep's clothing. Moreover, lets call blackmail an insurance policy of sorts, that one takes out on a particular person. It is a means to hopefully keep a person honest and a tool to lessen the sting of betrayal in the event it happens. Hopefully, one never has to use blackmail on another, but it is a good thing to have.

There are seedy individuals among us and they come from all walks of life. Therefore, one must remain ever so watchful of those they befriend or make a acquaintance of. Now, some may call it paranoia, but I disagree. It is only the art of hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst. In any interaction, a person will try to dig up as much as they can about you, and what is the harm of you doing the same with them? Nothing in my book, and it is a way of establishing an environment of trust. I am not the first to mention this I am sure, but sadly, as society continues to billow and moan on the verge of breakdown; trust is a very hard thing to come by these days. As long as blackmail is used to protect oneself from betrayal, then I see no harm in it.

However, I do see a problem when one uses blackmail for sadistic pleasure, financial gain, and for purposes of undue influence and control. The references of David Letterman's case and J. Edgar Hoover, are prime examples of blackmail at its worst. What I am trying to say is the right or wrong of blackmail depends on the individual and how it is used. In other words, another slippery slope.

If one should be afraid of blackmail, then that person should refrain from doing things that are deemed inappropriate or controversial by societal norms. Then if blackmail comes up, they can just deny it and ignore it. To me, the outrage of some when they are blackmailed is a semblance of guilt and of truth about the accusations against them. If the claims are patently and beyond a shadow of a doubt false, then why the uproar? They get upset, because they know it is true and are afraid the claims are going to be substantiated by others. Therefore, never leave yourself vulnerable to blackmail, and at the very least, be as reasonable and honest as possible with how you live your life. That is the only defense against blackmail. They say the truth shall set you free. Very interesting topic SKL!


[edit on 20-3-2010 by Jakes51]

Great thread Spartan.

I did enjoy the J Edgar Hoover videos, I'd never known how corrupt he actually was. That was intense.

Asf or blackmailing, I've never had anybody attempt to do so. Not succesfully anyway. I've never hid anything or done anything to be ashamed of, so when people tried to pull their weight with me I simply let them think they were doing something horrible to me.

They'd later find out that I didn't give a rats arse about what anybody other than my family had to say or think about me.

It's a bit difficult to get a rise out of somebody in that mind set.

Kill em' with kindness is what my mother taught me...

~Keeper

Originally posted by Jakes51
Ideally, I view blackmail as an act of cowardice, however, I live in the real world and not an ideal one. One must protect themselves at all times. There are wolves in sheep's clothing. Moreover, lets call blackmail an insurance policy of sorts, that one takes out a particular person. It is a means to hopefully keep a person honest and a tool to lessen the sting of betrayal in the event it happens. Hopefully, one never has to use blackmail on another, but it is a good thing to have.

Well, while I can see your point, and agree to some extent, there is a fine line between guaranteeing someone remains honest, and committing an illegal action in order to gain power, and it is not something I see as viable. Especially not when it comes to society today, and just how different it is over the last century, because ultimately society has changed. Besides, this means someone has to be willing to commit a crime, to gain something, so therefore the commission of a crime is happening, and creating more crime is not something I agree with.

Originally posted by Jakes51
Now, some may call it paranoia, but I disagree. It is only the art of hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst. In any interaction a person will try to dig up as much as they can about you, and what is the harm of you doing the same with them? Nothing in my book, and it is a way of establishing an environment of trust. As long as blackmail is used to protect oneself from betrayal, then I see no harm in it.

Paranoia is a state of mind and if someone has a reason to know something, it does not always make them a threat, it makes them someone who knows because of investigtion, research, and wanting to know the truth.

Just Because You're Paranoid, Doesn't Mean They Aren't Out To Get You...

When I mention that it is because knowing the types of things our Government does, and the lies they tell us, and sell us, knowing the truth is so much more important, not in the action of using it as blackmail. It is because we as citizens need to know each and everything, because we are ultimately held responsible, whether we are or not, by those international individuals as well as the national citizens of the world for the actions committed in our names. And I'll be damned if I am held responsible for the actions of certain criminals with our Government.

Originally posted by Jakes51
However, I do see a problem when one uses blackmail for sadistic pleasure, financial gain, and for purposes of undue influence and control. The references of David Letterman's case and J. Edgar Hoover, are prime examples of blackmail at its worst.

This is exactly what I am talking about though, while Dave Letterman's scandal was brief, he handled it maturely, and blew the lid on it.

But what of one of the most notorius men, J. Edgar Hoover, someone who merely had to whisper someone's name to his Agent's and their career was wrecked, over nothing more silly the fact they disagreed with him, or Hoover's own paranoia which lead to imagined slights?

Or even the rather ignorant stance because someone was a homosexual they were not a patriotic American? This is not only a slippery slope, but a deadly slope if you are caught on the down angle and a boulder is coming down on your head, so to me there is no such reason to allow it to happen to begin with, but I do see where you're coming from.

Originally posted by Jakes51
If one should be afraid of blackmail, then that person should refrain from doing things that are deemed inappropriate or controversial by societal norms. That is the only defense against blackmail. They say the truth shall set you free. Very interesting topic SKL!

[edit on 20-3-2010 by Jakes51]

Is this not in a sense, a form of societal blackmail over every man?

If we still lived in the days of the Spanish Inquisition, a Paladin, or Priest, could call you a heretic for merely disagreeing with the Catholic church. Then this person was not blackmailed, but tied to a rack and tortured for information. As well to recant their views, revoking exactly what the Church was allegedly all about, peace and harmony, and to walk with God.

I am no Catholic expert, but I sure know the history of Catholicism, and it was a barbaric organization for a lengthy period of time, and ultimately responsible for some of the most heinous crimes against humanity, one tortured soul after another, and as well one of the prime suppressors of their own crimes through closing down knowledge during the Middle Ages, more aptly referred to as the Dark Ages.

Dark indeed, because not only was knowledge seen as a crime, it was a crime to disagree.

It is not only dangerous to someone that would be blackmailed, but it might make them commit an action that they see as corrupting their ethics, morals, or belief system, just because someone else disagrees with something they have done, that is nothing more harmful than commission of free will.

Perception and society and its perception of reality are two totally different things, because we have so many different Government's of each country, first off lying to their own people, and then lying to the other nations, and then lying to their own people about the lies they are lying about to everyone else. I see it as a great Merry-Go-Round and when will it stop?

The commission of a lie and crime to stop a lie and crime is counter to the very nature of society, in so many ways, and I for one would never allow someone to hold this power over myself, nor over society, I would destroy the person, at any means necessary, because power is corruption.

I know how to get power, trust to that, but I would never use corruption to gain it, because the fast path to power, is the fast path to corruption.

As George Orwell once said :

George Orwell :

In A Time of Deceit, Truth Can Be A Revolutionary Action.

[edit on 20-3-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Great thread Spartan.

I did enjoy the J Edgar Hoover videos, I'd never known how corrupt he actually was. That was intense.

Then you would definitely like the F.B.I. book or Dangerous Dossiers.

I have known just how corrupt the man was from the moment I first heard his name as a child, when in the history books his name was mentioned.

I can literally see corruption and the puppet strings of either the master or the slave.

Policy, procedure, and protocol are inprinted upon my soul.

And blackmail can follow those as well because the reactions are seen.

Just because you can do something, does not mean you should, however.

I am of course speaking of Washington D.C. and the halls of power.

You can see those through people's action quite clearly.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Asf or blackmailing, I've never had anybody attempt to do so. Not succesfully anyway. I've never hid anything or done anything to be ashamed of, so when people tried to pull their weight with me I simply let them think they were doing something horrible to me.

People find I am emotionless at times and difficult and downright stubborn.

My current ex-girlfriend told me it would take a stick of dynamite up my ass, to get me to change my mind once it was set, and I thanked her, she was stunned.

She did not realize I knew the instant she tried to use emotional blackmail.

And I would not succumb to it and her comment was in fact a compliment.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
They'd later find out that I didn't give a rats arse about what anybody other than my family had to say or think about me.

It's a bit difficult to get a rise out of somebody in that mind set.

Kill em' with kindness is what my mother taught me...

~Keeper

You quite simply cannot get a rise out of someone who knows you are trying to do so.

I see, hear, and understand intent, which is why my posts are so open on ATS, my content, context, and intent are left open to interpretation.

And while some may mistake them, it is usually because of their lack of knowledge.

Content, context, and intent are just as important when speaking as in typing.

Intent, however, is powerful, and seeing someone's intent, when it comes to harm, is one of my greatest gifts, and I wield it as a means of self-defense.

Each and every friend, lover, or person I have know has backstabbed, tried in vain to harm through negative intent, or made the mistake of believing I was easily manipulated, and or that they could use the knowledge I shared with them as a viable means of blackmail, for no other reason than I trusted them with troubling issues I went through throughout my life, and got over, and made myself a better person because of it, and each and every one of those people quickly found out just how much I value solitary isolation away from them.

Quite obviously, they became an enemy, and I would rather have enemies then friends.

Enemies are much more easily destroyed, but when friends become enemies, it is nothing more than a transition of their name from friendly to enemy.

I devalue them as not even being human and their own destruction was their own doing.

[edit on 20-3-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]