The Mark of the Beast or Yahweh's Seal

The Mark of the Beast or Yahweh's Seal

I just recently started reading Gerhard von Rad's book From Genesis to Chronicles. It didn't take me long to formulate a theory. Yahweh inextricably identifies himself with the Exodus from Egypt. He is the one who brought them out. His people therefore are 'the people Yahweh brought out of Egypt.' It is formulaic and creedal. To be a member of Yahweh's tribe of Israel is to be one who says:

DT 26:5 "My father was a wandering Aramean, and he went down into Egypt with a few people and lived there and became a great nation, powerful and numerous. 6 But the Egyptians mistreated us and made us suffer, putting us to hard labor. 7 Then we cried out to the LORD, the God of our fathers, and the LORD heard our voice and saw our misery, toil and oppression. 8 So the LORD brought us out of Egypt with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm, with great terror and with miraculous signs and wonders. 9 He brought us to this place and gave us this land, a land flowing with milk and honey;"

The Decalogue itself states, "I am Yahweh your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage." Ex.20

DT 6:20 In the future, when your son asks you, "What is the meaning of the stipulations, decrees and laws the LORD our God has commanded you?" 21 tell him: "We were slaves of Pharaoh in Egypt, but the LORD brought us out of Egypt with a mighty hand. 22 Before our eyes the LORD sent miraculous signs and wonders--great and terrible--upon Egypt and Pharaoh and his whole household. 23 But he brought us out from there to bring us in and give us the land that he promised on oath to our forefathers. 24 The LORD commanded us to obey all these decrees and to fear the LORD our God, so that we might always prosper and be kept alive, as is the case today. 25 And if we are careful to obey all this law before the LORD our God, as he has commanded us, that will be our righteousness."

What then is an Israelite but one who says, 'we were slaves in Egypt, Yahweh brought us out of slavery.' No other mark or sign is acceptable. The dialogue of Jesus to 'Jews who believed in him' Jn 8:31-48 is only understandable in terms of this. Jesus says 'the truth will set you free.' The response they make is what determines their true state:

JN 8:33 They answered him, "We are Abraham's descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?"

Once the statement is made of never being slaves, that's it. Even if they claim Abraham as father, or even state God is our only father, makes no difference, they've already rejected the God who brought them out of slavery.

What then is my theory? Those who want to call themselves Yahweh's people, and yet find some other sign, some other seal, some other 'mark' are cutting themselves off. What today do Jews claim as the reason for being a sovereign nation? Isn't there some mention of a holocaust? As if to say: The Nazi's made us wear a star, as a mark of the beast. The Nazis imprisoned us. We were killed in great numbers by Nazis. Therefore we have the right to go back and take what was given to us by God."

This is altogether inadequate. This is not the creed. The Nazis have nothing to do with the creed, the identification of Yahweh and his people. Please give it up! The mark of the beast does not make you Yahweh's people or bring you back to the land of promise. Wait on Yahweh to determine his own times and seasons.

so are you saying jews accepted the mark of the beast by not claiming yahweh as the one who set them free?

reply to post by BreakinThEwaLL

so are you saying jews accepted the mark of the beast by not claiming yahweh as the one who set them free?

I'm saying the actions or opinions of any government on this earth, including the 'all powerful' US have no bearing on what Yahweh chose himself as identifying the people of promise. On another thread, I'll try to find it, I stated that if 1948 is accepted as some great date significant to Yahweh bringing his people back, is like accepting Truman as god.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

In the same way, Yahweh didn't say, my people are the people persecuted and killed by Nazis. That's not how he chose for them to be identified. To accept Nazi definition is to accept the mark of the beast.

The bottom line is how should an Israelite determine when to go to the promised land? My thought is not because what Nazis say or do or even what a US President says. These governments and leaders of governments are not Yahweh.



[edit on 17-3-2010 by pthena]

Yahweh = Satan = just another nut-job trying to control humans.

reply to post by pthena
Jesus was speaking about the Jew's SPIRITUAL condition. They didn't realize this when they claimed to have never been in bondage.

They/we are in bondage to sin.

reply to post by bigspud

Yahweh = Satan = just another nut-job trying to control humans.

I myself, happen to be a Pagan, so Yahweh has rather serious charges against me. But I still admit there may be something lacking in my understanding. There's a term Americans are fond of applying to themselves, 'impartial broker', which of course is unearned.

Still, as an impartial broker, if some one wants to be Yahweh's person, they should at least have a chance of knowing what that means, as apposed to what some religious leader chooses to say it means. Especially when the consequences of error lead to great human suffering.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Jesus was speaking about the Jew's SPIRITUAL condition. They didn't realize this when they claimed to have never been in bondage.

They/we are in bondage to sin.

From the context, of Jews who believed in him, I take to mean, that they accepted that he was a prophet. The test of a prophet for Israel is that they speak in the name of Yahweh, which includes formulaically the bringing out from Egypt, since Yahweh IS the deliverer from Egypt
Example:

JDG 6:7 When the Israelites cried to the LORD because of Midian, 8 he sent them a prophet, who said, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: I brought you up out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 9 I snatched you from the power of Egypt and from the hand of all your oppressors. I drove them from before you and gave you their land. 10 I said to you, `I am the LORD your God; do not worship the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you live.' But you have not listened to me."

So Jesus was testing them as to whether they believed in him without considering his legitimacy or not.

As for Christianity, it has been made into a universal religion, no consideration given for race or nation. It would seem reasonable to take physical slavery as symbolic of spiritual bondage and apply it to the sin question. If the main sin against Yahweh has always been accepting other gods, what then would be the sin against the Universal available to all God? Wouldn't it be similar? Say placing race or nationality above recognition of common humanity? Or say, exploiting resources and people for one's own profit in such a way as to render the planet very difficult to live on?

Sin as an abstract concept seems meaningless to me. Jesus said something to the effect of 'doing unto others as you would have them do to you.' or 'love your neighbor as yourself' That seems concrete enough, especially when you consider some parables indicating neighbors may be people not always considered as neighbors by the dominant group.



[edit on 17-3-2010 by pthena]

I met a lady once who claimed to be a Rothschild. I told her Tsarion's theory that the Jews coming out of Egypt were not slaves... (don't recall him speculating that they were the fallen origin of monotheism 18th Hyksos dynasty escaping the wrath of the natives but that is plausible) his logic was slaves don't own gold. She laughed and said 'we have always been rich and we have always owned slaves.'

Also I have an old book called man and his gods 40's era written by a Columbia professor. He says that historically Yahweh was a stone worshiped on a mountain... A Shiva linga kind of thing? Just what was that plasma generator in the arc? There is some claim on line that the arc fits perfectly into the kings chamber sarcophagi.... now just what was it that the Egyptians were so pissed off about that they decimated the city and temple and sold the citizens into slavery in Babylon? Why not use the arc from day one to abolish the slavery???

According to the Septuagint, Exodus 7:1, God said to Moses, "I have given you as a God to Pharoa".

Moses was a magician and sorcerer. Not only that, but many people skip over the fact that Pharao's magicians could duplicate whatever magic Moses did.

Moses grew up as a prince. He was determined to have a people to rule and much of his motivation was selfish, not altruistic. Moses was not a Jew. He was a Canaanite.

The last plague, which was the death of the firstborns was a mass murder. The "invisible hand of god" was nothing more than biowarfare. It was secret and sneaky and aimed at the Egyptians. Many more than just 'firstborns' were killed. Those who were not firstborns were justified as being the (previously unknown) offspring of hidden adulteries. That was the reasoning to explain such a mass murder.

The Passover Plague www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by DChenO

Tsarion's theory that the Jews coming out of Egypt were not slaves...his logic was slaves don't own gold.

The story in Exodus is that the Hebrews 'borrowed' the gold from the Egyptians. Borrowing to migrate never to return is usually called something else.

18th Hyksos dynasty escaping the wrath of the natives

I'm guessing that's what the Rothschild lady said? The scholarship back when I was in school did favor the idea that the Exodus was some way connected to the Hyksos (a Semitic group)

reply to post by Alethea

According to the Septuagint, Exodus 7:1, God said to Moses, "I have given you as a God to Pharoa".

Now I remember how hard it is to run a thread, causes more research than time I was hoping to maybe establish a regional deity relationship for Yahweh. South Eastern border being Meribah on Northeastern Sinai Peninsula, Southwestern border being Sea of Reeds. Meaning Yahweh didn't live in Egypt. Moses went back into Egypt as "God to Pharoah."

Moses was a magician and sorcerer. Not only that, but many people skip over the fact that Pharao's magicians could duplicate whatever magic Moses did.

EX 7:8 The LORD said to Moses and Aaron, 9 "When Pharaoh says to you, `Perform a miracle,' then say to Aaron, `Take your staff and throw it down before Pharaoh,' and it will become a snake."

And a couple of other feats. Yahweh himself was the teacher of Moses. Some of the later plagues the Pharaoh's magicians could not duplicate.

Moses grew up as a prince. He was determined to have a people to rule and much of his motivation was selfish, not altruistic. Moses was not a Jew. He was a Canaanite.

He claims to be a Levite, of tribe of Levi, son of Israel aka Jacob. I don't know of any reason to consider him a Canaanite. Yahweh offered to destroy the Israelites and make Moses into a nation, Moses vetoed that, demanding that Yahweh fulfill the promise he claimed to be honoring, to Abraham.

The last plague, which was the death of the firstborns was a mass murder. The "invisible hand of god" was nothing more than biowarfare. It was secret and sneaky and aimed at the Egyptians. Many more than just 'firstborns' were killed. Those who were not firstborns were justified as being the (previously unknown) offspring of hidden adulteries. That was the reasoning to explain such a mass murder.

The Passover Plague www.abovetopsecret.com...

I read the Passover Plague you linked to. Interesting theory. Yeast growing medium bioagent. I was hoping to get to firstborns.

I really must apologize for getting off on such a wrong foot here. First of all Yahweh hasn't approved of a Pagan speaking for him.

DT 13:1 If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, "Let us follow other gods" (gods you have not known) "and let us worship them," 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. Yahweh your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is Yahweh your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against Yahweh your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way Yahweh your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.

DT 13:6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. 9 You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from Yahweh your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.

A prophet is someone who presumes to speak for some god or other. It's obvious a Pagan would be inclined to mention gods other than Yahweh. But let's not think about this particular existential threat for a while. It's only one guy we're talking about, and it is better for one to die than that the whole nation should perish. Isn't it? Human sacrifice is good. Yes? No? Whatever?

I thought long and hard (pun intended, cue laghtrack) about this stoning business. What exactly is the image being symbolized? It's obviously a religious ritual meant to show some deep spiritual meaning beyond the obvious 'deterrent effect' mentioned in verse 11 above. I have reached a tentative conclusion which I will dramatize in story:

The Earth Rose Up

A child (one who still asks questions) was on his way out of town to gather firewood. As he neared the gate he heard the shouts from many voices and one pleading, "No, please, don't do this!"

Thinking some innocent person had been set upon by robbers, the child ran toward the ruckus, thinking to be of some help. But as he neared, the din had died down. Upon arriving he saw a group of men surrounding a figure lying motionless on the ground, stones scattered haphazardly around. (Note: I use the term figure because it shouldn't be implied that this was once a living breathing human, especially not a woman or child)

The child demands, "What have you done?"
The men reply, "We are guiltless, this was an abomination."
"What have you done?"
"We have done nothing. The earth rose up and smote the abomination."
"What?"
"Yes, the abomination was polluting our holy land."
"What?"
"Unless the land is pure we will be cast off."
"And now the land is pure?"
"Yes, the land is pure, and we are safe."
"Why is the land drinking the blood then?"
------------

Before we go on, let's think about that for awhile. (suitable pause)
Okay, I know what the objections are. "But pthena", you say, "That's not human sacrifice. That's execution for crime. It's not the same."
I ask then, "What's the difference?"
You reply, "A proper human sacrifice must be spotless, not a criminal. ... Hey, wait a minute, you tricked us into talking about human sacrifice! You, pthena, are evil to trick us into discussing proper human sacrifice. We don't believe in that stuff. It's you Pagans who do such wickedness."

Okay, there will probably be no end of disagreement about who does or doesn't believe in human sacrifice. So maybe we'll shelve that for now and move on to existential threats. You know, the reason tossed out so blithely as justification for war. I'm quite certain war has nothing whatsoever to do with human sacrifice. Such wise statements come to mind, such as, "we're fighting them over there, so that we don't have to fight them here." It's all self defense, it's just, it's necessary because of the existential threat. We have to survive after all. It's mandatory. And if 30 innocent people die for every threat eliminated, well that's acceptable. But that's not human sacrifice. It can't be. We don't believe in it, therefore nothing we do, including killing women and children by the thousands, can be called that. See, doesn't exist. Well, unless some one else does it. Then, and only then, is it human sacrifice. See, only others do it. Because they are ignorant of high religions that deny it's existence. See how simple it becomes once you have a superior religion?

Okay, sorry, slipped into that subject again. We really must move on.




[edit on 24-3-2010 by pthena]

On Existential Threat, another look at Bill Maher

My apologies to Bill Maher, but he left that segment in the final edit of his educational documentary, Religulous, which I reviewed here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
I now take a closer look at the segment from 1:04 - 1:06:19, interview with Anti-Zionist Rabbi Dovid Weiss:

See how Bill's legs move. It's as if he tries to push himself away from the edge of a cliff, and at the same time assume a fetal position, retreating back into the safety of a mother's womb. We can only assume that the debunker of all religion is reacting in a quite human way. From a visceral gut feeling he backs away from a yawning abyss which he knows will be opening before him. He resorts to the age old practice known as 'stopping his ears' which includes of course, the interjection of protest in order to hold off what he knows the rabbi will say next. He knows the rabbi will bring up The Suffering Servant of Isaiah 52 and 53, and that many segments of Jewish society see themselves in that light, and that it's proper and according to God's plan that they be this for the sake of the world. This is the existential moment, to be or not to be, the foundation of existential philosophy, the ever present choice, that does not assume everlasting continuation.

The Christians have a story they call the Transfiguration, goes something like this:
One night, Moses, Elijah, and Jesus met on a hill top discussing the relative merits of modes of death. Moses spoke of dying at the hands of God and being placed in the ground. Elijah spoke of bursting into flame and ascending into the heavens. Jesus was left to speak of dying at the hands of men, lifted up only far enough to show his rejection by earth and heaven. A cloud then covered the scene to spare the faint of heart. Some may say, so that the ignorant may remain ignorant.

Back to the yawning chasm. Bill Maher chose the holocaust as the cloud to hide the chasm from view. Since the Nazis systematically set out to cleanse their holy empire by rounding up Gypsies, Jews, and homosexuals, and consigning them to death, and using Eastern Europeans as slave labor, this is the sign that Jews should be self-determining; that they should have their own nation in which to preserve themselves alive, at whatever cost to those driven out and killed in the process.

Don't get me wrong, it is quite natural and human to seek to preserve life. Why must it always be though at the expense of others? Why must it always be considered a zero sum proposition? Is the US closed to the Jews? Hasn't it been a possibility to live relatively safe in America, at least in recent decades? Why go to some other 'promised land' and take it as would an empire, and with the aid of an empire? Is that the word of God?

Think back to when you were exiled in Babylon. The Samaritans (keepers) remained in the land. Custodians. When the time came some of you returned. Hasn't your greatest scholarship come from Jews who remained in Mesopotamia? Isn't that where the rabbinical schools were founded? What did those who returned do? Cast off and rejected the Samaritans is what they did. Read again the Suffering Servant chapters. Who is it? The rejected of men. Does that describe those backed by empire or those disenfranchised ones. The returning Jews with their impeccable genealogies set about building the second temple. Second temple? Second Temple?

(pause for time and energy constraint)

There is an end time revelation concerning the beast and the mark of the beast. It is something that i had never heard of before. but GOD revealed it to me in April 2010. You know the number 600 is found in another location in Revelations but yet it does NOT look the same as in Rev. 13!
The same with the number 60 and the number 6. The mark of the beast numbers are NOT just numbers. They are symbols. To find out what these symbols are please read the full article at www.isawthelightministries.com...
Important End Time Revelation!
It's NOT what you think!

Hey

I read the title off that thread.. and remind one other

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The point what i dont understand in that thread is, what has the mark off the beast to do with the Nazis?

Short question.. i know

Nia