so are you saying jews accepted the mark of the beast by not claiming yahweh as the one who set them free?
The Mark of the Beast or Yahweh's Seal, page 1
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reply posted on 17-3-2010 @ 04:33 PM by pthena
reply to post by BreakinThEwaLL
I'm saying the actions or opinions of any government on this earth, including the 'all powerful' US have no bearing on what Yahweh chose himself as identifying the people of promise. On another thread, I'll try to find it, I stated that if 1948 is accepted as some great date significant to Yahweh bringing his people back, is like accepting Truman as god.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
In the same way, Yahweh didn't say, my people are the people persecuted and killed by Nazis. That's not how he chose for them to be identified. To accept Nazi definition is to accept the mark of the beast.
The bottom line is how should an Israelite determine when to go to the promised land? My thought is not because what Nazis say or do or even what a US President says. These governments and leaders of governments are not Yahweh.
[edit on 17-3-2010 by pthena]
so are you saying jews accepted the mark of the beast by not claiming yahweh as the one who set them free?
I'm saying the actions or opinions of any government on this earth, including the 'all powerful' US have no bearing on what Yahweh chose himself as identifying the people of promise. On another thread, I'll try to find it, I stated that if 1948 is accepted as some great date significant to Yahweh bringing his people back, is like accepting Truman as god.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
In the same way, Yahweh didn't say, my people are the people persecuted and killed by Nazis. That's not how he chose for them to be identified. To accept Nazi definition is to accept the mark of the beast.
The bottom line is how should an Israelite determine when to go to the promised land? My thought is not because what Nazis say or do or even what a US President says. These governments and leaders of governments are not Yahweh.
[edit on 17-3-2010 by pthena]
reply posted on 17-3-2010 @ 04:56 PM by NOTurTypical
reply to post by pthena
Jesus was speaking about the Jew's SPIRITUAL condition. They didn't realize this when they claimed to have never been in bondage.
They/we are in bondage to sin.
Jesus was speaking about the Jew's SPIRITUAL condition. They didn't realize this when they claimed to have never been in bondage.
They/we are in bondage to sin.
reply posted on 17-3-2010 @ 04:58 PM by pthena
reply to post by bigspud
I myself, happen to be a Pagan, so Yahweh has rather serious charges against me. But I still admit there may be something lacking in my understanding. There's a term Americans are fond of applying to themselves, 'impartial broker', which of course is unearned.
Still, as an impartial broker, if some one wants to be Yahweh's person, they should at least have a chance of knowing what that means, as apposed to what some religious leader chooses to say it means. Especially when the consequences of error lead to great human suffering.
Yahweh = Satan = just another nut-job trying to control humans.
I myself, happen to be a Pagan, so Yahweh has rather serious charges against me. But I still admit there may be something lacking in my understanding. There's a term Americans are fond of applying to themselves, 'impartial broker', which of course is unearned.
Still, as an impartial broker, if some one wants to be Yahweh's person, they should at least have a chance of knowing what that means, as apposed to what some religious leader chooses to say it means. Especially when the consequences of error lead to great human suffering.
reply posted on 17-3-2010 @ 05:33 PM by pthena
reply to post by NOTurTypical
From the context, of Jews who believed in him, I take to mean, that they accepted that he was a prophet. The test of a prophet for Israel is that they speak in the name of Yahweh, which includes formulaically the bringing out from Egypt, since Yahweh IS the deliverer from Egypt
Example:
So Jesus was testing them as to whether they believed in him without considering his legitimacy or not.
As for Christianity, it has been made into a universal religion, no consideration given for race or nation. It would seem reasonable to take physical slavery as symbolic of spiritual bondage and apply it to the sin question. If the main sin against Yahweh has always been accepting other gods, what then would be the sin against the Universal available to all God? Wouldn't it be similar? Say placing race or nationality above recognition of common humanity? Or say, exploiting resources and people for one's own profit in such a way as to render the planet very difficult to live on?
Sin as an abstract concept seems meaningless to me. Jesus said something to the effect of 'doing unto others as you would have them do to you.' or 'love your neighbor as yourself' That seems concrete enough, especially when you consider some parables indicating neighbors may be people not always considered as neighbors by the dominant group.
[edit on 17-3-2010 by pthena]
Jesus was speaking about the Jew's SPIRITUAL condition. They didn't realize this when they claimed to have never been in bondage.
They/we are in bondage to sin.
From the context, of Jews who believed in him, I take to mean, that they accepted that he was a prophet. The test of a prophet for Israel is that they speak in the name of Yahweh, which includes formulaically the bringing out from Egypt, since Yahweh IS the deliverer from Egypt
Example:
JDG 6:7 When the Israelites cried to the LORD because of Midian, 8 he sent them a prophet, who said, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: I brought you up out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 9 I snatched you from the power of Egypt and from the hand of all your oppressors. I drove them from before you and gave you their land. 10 I said to you, `I am the LORD your God; do not worship the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you live.' But you have not listened to me."
So Jesus was testing them as to whether they believed in him without considering his legitimacy or not.
As for Christianity, it has been made into a universal religion, no consideration given for race or nation. It would seem reasonable to take physical slavery as symbolic of spiritual bondage and apply it to the sin question. If the main sin against Yahweh has always been accepting other gods, what then would be the sin against the Universal available to all God? Wouldn't it be similar? Say placing race or nationality above recognition of common humanity? Or say, exploiting resources and people for one's own profit in such a way as to render the planet very difficult to live on?
Sin as an abstract concept seems meaningless to me. Jesus said something to the effect of 'doing unto others as you would have them do to you.' or 'love your neighbor as yourself' That seems concrete enough, especially when you consider some parables indicating neighbors may be people not always considered as neighbors by the dominant group.
[edit on 17-3-2010 by pthena]
reply posted on 17-3-2010 @ 06:57 PM by Alethea
According to the Septuagint, Exodus 7:1, God said to Moses, "I have given you as a God to Pharoa".
Moses was a magician and sorcerer. Not only that, but many people skip over the fact that Pharao's magicians could duplicate whatever magic Moses did.
Moses grew up as a prince. He was determined to have a people to rule and much of his motivation was selfish, not altruistic. Moses was not a Jew. He was a Canaanite.
The last plague, which was the death of the firstborns was a mass murder. The "invisible hand of god" was nothing more than biowarfare. It was secret and sneaky and aimed at the Egyptians. Many more than just 'firstborns' were killed. Those who were not firstborns were justified as being the (previously unknown) offspring of hidden adulteries. That was the reasoning to explain such a mass murder.
The Passover Plague www.abovetopsecret.com...
Moses was a magician and sorcerer. Not only that, but many people skip over the fact that Pharao's magicians could duplicate whatever magic Moses did.
Moses grew up as a prince. He was determined to have a people to rule and much of his motivation was selfish, not altruistic. Moses was not a Jew. He was a Canaanite.
The last plague, which was the death of the firstborns was a mass murder. The "invisible hand of god" was nothing more than biowarfare. It was secret and sneaky and aimed at the Egyptians. Many more than just 'firstborns' were killed. Those who were not firstborns were justified as being the (previously unknown) offspring of hidden adulteries. That was the reasoning to explain such a mass murder.
The Passover Plague www.abovetopsecret.com...
reply posted on 17-3-2010 @ 08:28 PM by pthena
reply to post by DChenO
The story in Exodus is that the Hebrews 'borrowed' the gold from the Egyptians. Borrowing to migrate never to return is usually called something else.
I'm guessing that's what the Rothschild lady said? The scholarship back when I was in school did favor the idea that the Exodus was some way connected to the Hyksos (a Semitic group)
Tsarion's theory that the Jews coming out of Egypt were not slaves...his logic was slaves don't own gold.
The story in Exodus is that the Hebrews 'borrowed' the gold from the Egyptians. Borrowing to migrate never to return is usually called something else.
18th Hyksos dynasty escaping the wrath of the natives
I'm guessing that's what the Rothschild lady said? The scholarship back when I was in school did favor the idea that the Exodus was some way connected to the Hyksos (a Semitic group)
reply posted on 17-3-2010 @ 09:09 PM by pthena
reply to post by Alethea
Now I remember how hard it is to run a thread, causes more research than time
I was hoping to maybe establish a regional deity relationship for
Yahweh. South Eastern border being Meribah on Northeastern Sinai Peninsula, Southwestern border being Sea of Reeds. Meaning Yahweh didn't live in
Egypt. Moses went back into Egypt as "God to Pharoah."
And a couple of other feats. Yahweh himself was the teacher of Moses. Some of the later plagues the Pharaoh's magicians could not duplicate.
He claims to be a Levite, of tribe of Levi, son of Israel aka Jacob. I don't know of any reason to consider him a Canaanite. Yahweh offered to destroy the Israelites and make Moses into a nation, Moses vetoed that, demanding that Yahweh fulfill the promise he claimed to be honoring, to Abraham.
I read the Passover Plague you linked to. Interesting theory. Yeast growing medium bioagent. I was hoping to get to firstborns.
According to the Septuagint, Exodus 7:1, God said to Moses, "I have given you as a God to Pharoa".
Now I remember how hard it is to run a thread, causes more research than time
I was hoping to maybe establish a regional deity relationship for
Yahweh. South Eastern border being Meribah on Northeastern Sinai Peninsula, Southwestern border being Sea of Reeds. Meaning Yahweh didn't live in
Egypt. Moses went back into Egypt as "God to Pharoah."
Moses was a magician and sorcerer. Not only that, but many people skip over the fact that Pharao's magicians could duplicate whatever magic Moses did.
EX 7:8 The LORD said to Moses and Aaron, 9 "When Pharaoh says to you, `Perform a miracle,' then say to Aaron, `Take your staff and throw it down before Pharaoh,' and it will become a snake."
And a couple of other feats. Yahweh himself was the teacher of Moses. Some of the later plagues the Pharaoh's magicians could not duplicate.
Moses grew up as a prince. He was determined to have a people to rule and much of his motivation was selfish, not altruistic. Moses was not a Jew. He was a Canaanite.
He claims to be a Levite, of tribe of Levi, son of Israel aka Jacob. I don't know of any reason to consider him a Canaanite. Yahweh offered to destroy the Israelites and make Moses into a nation, Moses vetoed that, demanding that Yahweh fulfill the promise he claimed to be honoring, to Abraham.
The last plague, which was the death of the firstborns was a mass murder. The "invisible hand of god" was nothing more than biowarfare. It was secret and sneaky and aimed at the Egyptians. Many more than just 'firstborns' were killed. Those who were not firstborns were justified as being the (previously unknown) offspring of hidden adulteries. That was the reasoning to explain such a mass murder.
The Passover Plague www.abovetopsecret.com...
I read the Passover Plague you linked to. Interesting theory. Yeast growing medium bioagent. I was hoping to get to firstborns.
reply posted on 26-3-2010 @ 04:52 PM by pthena
On Existential Threat, another look at Bill Maher
My apologies to Bill Maher, but he left that segment in the final edit of his educational documentary, Religulous, which I reviewed here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
I now take a closer look at the segment from 1:04 - 1:06:19, interview with Anti-Zionist Rabbi Dovid Weiss:
See how Bill's legs move. It's as if he tries to push himself away from the edge of a cliff, and at the same time assume a fetal position, retreating back into the safety of a mother's womb. We can only assume that the debunker of all religion is reacting in a quite human way. From a visceral gut feeling he backs away from a yawning abyss which he knows will be opening before him. He resorts to the age old practice known as 'stopping his ears' which includes of course, the interjection of protest in order to hold off what he knows the rabbi will say next. He knows the rabbi will bring up The Suffering Servant of Isaiah 52 and 53, and that many segments of Jewish society see themselves in that light, and that it's proper and according to God's plan that they be this for the sake of the world. This is the existential moment, to be or not to be, the foundation of existential philosophy, the ever present choice, that does not assume everlasting continuation.
The Christians have a story they call the Transfiguration, goes something like this:
One night, Moses, Elijah, and Jesus met on a hill top discussing the relative merits of modes of death. Moses spoke of dying at the hands of God and being placed in the ground. Elijah spoke of bursting into flame and ascending into the heavens. Jesus was left to speak of dying at the hands of men, lifted up only far enough to show his rejection by earth and heaven. A cloud then covered the scene to spare the faint of heart. Some may say, so that the ignorant may remain ignorant.
Back to the yawning chasm. Bill Maher chose the holocaust as the cloud to hide the chasm from view. Since the Nazis systematically set out to cleanse their holy empire by rounding up Gypsies, Jews, and homosexuals, and consigning them to death, and using Eastern Europeans as slave labor, this is the sign that Jews should be self-determining; that they should have their own nation in which to preserve themselves alive, at whatever cost to those driven out and killed in the process.
Don't get me wrong, it is quite natural and human to seek to preserve life. Why must it always be though at the expense of others? Why must it always be considered a zero sum proposition? Is the US closed to the Jews? Hasn't it been a possibility to live relatively safe in America, at least in recent decades? Why go to some other 'promised land' and take it as would an empire, and with the aid of an empire? Is that the word of God?
Think back to when you were exiled in Babylon. The Samaritans (keepers) remained in the land. Custodians. When the time came some of you returned. Hasn't your greatest scholarship come from Jews who remained in Mesopotamia? Isn't that where the rabbinical schools were founded? What did those who returned do? Cast off and rejected the Samaritans is what they did. Read again the Suffering Servant chapters. Who is it? The rejected of men. Does that describe those backed by empire or those disenfranchised ones. The returning Jews with their impeccable genealogies set about building the second temple. Second temple? Second Temple?
(pause for time and energy constraint)
My apologies to Bill Maher, but he left that segment in the final edit of his educational documentary, Religulous, which I reviewed here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
I now take a closer look at the segment from 1:04 - 1:06:19, interview with Anti-Zionist Rabbi Dovid Weiss:
See how Bill's legs move. It's as if he tries to push himself away from the edge of a cliff, and at the same time assume a fetal position, retreating back into the safety of a mother's womb. We can only assume that the debunker of all religion is reacting in a quite human way. From a visceral gut feeling he backs away from a yawning abyss which he knows will be opening before him. He resorts to the age old practice known as 'stopping his ears' which includes of course, the interjection of protest in order to hold off what he knows the rabbi will say next. He knows the rabbi will bring up The Suffering Servant of Isaiah 52 and 53, and that many segments of Jewish society see themselves in that light, and that it's proper and according to God's plan that they be this for the sake of the world. This is the existential moment, to be or not to be, the foundation of existential philosophy, the ever present choice, that does not assume everlasting continuation.
The Christians have a story they call the Transfiguration, goes something like this:
One night, Moses, Elijah, and Jesus met on a hill top discussing the relative merits of modes of death. Moses spoke of dying at the hands of God and being placed in the ground. Elijah spoke of bursting into flame and ascending into the heavens. Jesus was left to speak of dying at the hands of men, lifted up only far enough to show his rejection by earth and heaven. A cloud then covered the scene to spare the faint of heart. Some may say, so that the ignorant may remain ignorant.
Back to the yawning chasm. Bill Maher chose the holocaust as the cloud to hide the chasm from view. Since the Nazis systematically set out to cleanse their holy empire by rounding up Gypsies, Jews, and homosexuals, and consigning them to death, and using Eastern Europeans as slave labor, this is the sign that Jews should be self-determining; that they should have their own nation in which to preserve themselves alive, at whatever cost to those driven out and killed in the process.
Don't get me wrong, it is quite natural and human to seek to preserve life. Why must it always be though at the expense of others? Why must it always be considered a zero sum proposition? Is the US closed to the Jews? Hasn't it been a possibility to live relatively safe in America, at least in recent decades? Why go to some other 'promised land' and take it as would an empire, and with the aid of an empire? Is that the word of God?
Think back to when you were exiled in Babylon. The Samaritans (keepers) remained in the land. Custodians. When the time came some of you returned. Hasn't your greatest scholarship come from Jews who remained in Mesopotamia? Isn't that where the rabbinical schools were founded? What did those who returned do? Cast off and rejected the Samaritans is what they did. Read again the Suffering Servant chapters. Who is it? The rejected of men. Does that describe those backed by empire or those disenfranchised ones. The returning Jews with their impeccable genealogies set about building the second temple. Second temple? Second Temple?
(pause for time and energy constraint)
reply posted on 26-5-2010 @ 02:13 PM by pastortim
There is an end time revelation concerning the beast and the mark of the beast. It is something that i had never heard of before. but GOD revealed it
to me in April 2010. You know the number 600 is found in another location in Revelations but yet it does NOT look the same as in Rev. 13!
The same with the number 60 and the number 6. The mark of the beast numbers are NOT just numbers. They are symbols. To find out what these symbols are please read the full article at www.isawthelightministries.com...
Important End Time Revelation!
It's NOT what you think!
The same with the number 60 and the number 6. The mark of the beast numbers are NOT just numbers. They are symbols. To find out what these symbols are please read the full article at www.isawthelightministries.com...
Important End Time Revelation!
It's NOT what you think!
reply posted on 30-5-2010 @ 02:18 PM by NW111
Hey 
I read the title off that thread.. and remind one other
www.abovetopsecret.com...
The point what i dont understand in that thread is, what has the mark off the beast to do with the Nazis?
Short question.. i know
Nia
I read the title off that thread.. and remind one other
www.abovetopsecret.com...
The point what i dont understand in that thread is, what has the mark off the beast to do with the Nazis?
Short question.. i know
Nia
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