Vatican Exorcist Father Amorth on changes since Vatican II, apostasy of bishops and exorcism, page 1

Pages:
ATS Members have flagged this thread 4 times

Topic started on 17-3-2010 @ 11:20 AM by FortAnthem

Stories of Father Gabriel Amorth’s recent disclosure of Satanism in the Vatican have created quite a buzz of late but, it seems this is something he has been speaking out about for quite some time.

The following are some excerpts of an interview Father Gabriel Amorth did in 2000 in response to changes the Vatican made to the rite of exorcism.

In the article he discusses how the Vatican made changes to the rite without consulting even one practicing exorcist! He states that, even though a group of exorcists attempted to add their input to the proposed changes, they were ignored and derided by those who had drafted the changes.

30 Days

30 Days: But wasn't the New Ritual put together by specialists?
Fr. Amorth: Not at all! During these last ten years, two commissions worked on the Ritual; one which was made up of cardinals and which was responsible for the Praenotanda, that is to say the initial provisions, and the other which was responsible for the prayers. I can affirm with certainty that none of the members of these commissions had ever performed an exorcism, had ever been present at an exorcism and ever possessed the slightest idea of what an exorcism is. Here lies the error, the original sin of this Ritual. Not one of those who collaborated on it was an exorcism specialist.

30 Days: How is that possible?
Fr. Amorth: It is not me you should be asking. At the Vatican II Ecumenical Council, each commission was aided by a group of experts who assisted the bishops in their work. And this custom was kept up after the Council, every time that parts of the Ritual were redrafted. But not this time. And yet, if there were ever a subject that demanded the participation of specialists, it was truly this.

30 Days: And yet?
Fr. Amorth: And yet we exorcists were never consulted. And what is more, any suggestions that we were able to make were unfavorably received by the commissions.

30 Days: Does this mean then that, for you, the New Rite is unusable in the struggle against the demon?
Fr. Amorth: Yes. They were looking to give us a blunt weapon. Efficacious prayers, prayers that had been in existence for twelve centuries, were suppressed and replaced by new ineffective prayers.

Fr. Amorth goes on to discuss how exorcists are treated as though they are crazy fanatics by the very bishops who appoint them. He tells a story about how a group of 150 exorcists traveled to the Vatican in the hopes of discussing the new rite with Pope John Paul II but, were denied even a public audience with the Pope. Father Amorth suggested an interesting reason for why this large contingent of exorcists was forbidden to meet with the Pope.

Fr. Amorth: The smoke of Satan has entered everywhere. Everywhere! Perhaps we were excluded from the audience with the Pope because they were afraid that such a large number of exorcists might succeed in chasing out the legions of demons that have installed themselves in the Vatican.

He then goes on to talk about how the greatest success of Satan is convincing people that he does not exist, how this has resulted in the poor treatment of exorcists in the Church. He states that because of this, there are entire episcopates that are hostile to exorcisms. There are countries in which there is not a single exorcist, as for example Germany, Switzerland, Spain and Portugal.

Amorth states that one who no longer believes in Satan does not retain the faith and is no longer Catholic. This was affirmed to him when Pope John Paul II stated “He who does not believe in the devil does not believe in the Gospel."

30 Days: Explain to me if you would: does this mean that there are many bishops and priests who are no longer Catholic?
Fr. Amorth: Let us say that they do not believe in a Gospel truth. Therefore, I would possibly accuse them of propagating a heresy. But let us understand: someone is only formally heretical if he is accused of committing an error and he persists in it. But because of the situation in the Church today, no one would ever accuse a bishop of not believing in the devil or in demonic possession and of not appointing exorcists because he has no belief in these things. I could mention a great number of bishops and cardinals who, as soon as they had been appointed to a diocese, withdrew from all exorcists the faculty of exercising their powers.

Finally Fr. Amorth discusses black magic and ways in which one comes under the influence of the devil.

Fr. Amorth: There is no difference between white magic and black magic. When magic works, it is always the work of the demon. Every form of occultism, like this widespread resort to the religions of the East with their esoteric suggestions, are open gateways to the demon. And the devil enters. At once.

30 Days: How does the demon set about seducing people?
Fr. Amorth: His strategy is always along the same lines. I have told him this and he admits it.. He makes people believe that hell does not exist, that sin does not exist, and that he is nothing but one more experience to try out. Concupiscence, success and power are the three great passions on which Satan relies.

30 Days: How does one become a victim of the demon?
Fr. Amorth: One can be subjected to the attacks of the demon in four cases. Either because it constitutes a blessing for the person and such is the case with many of the saints, or because of irreversible persistence in sin, or because one is the victim of a curse uttered in the name of the demon, or else when one gives oneself up to practices of occultism.

30 Days: Has the devil ever harmed you personally?
Fr. Amorth: When Cardinal Poletti asked me to take on this role of exorcist, I recommended myself to the Virgin: "Envelop me in Thy mantle and I will be in total security." The demon has often threatened me, but he has never harmed me.

30 Days: Don't you ever feel afraid of the demon?
Fr. Amorth: Me, for that animal? It is he who should be afraid of me; I act in the name of the Lord of the world. But as for him, he is nothing but God's monkey.

Read more: 30 Days

[edit on 3/17/10 by FortAnthem]

reply posted on 17-3-2010 @ 11:55 AM by mweiss

Not entirely surprised by the report of satanism in the Catholic church. And I am Catholic! I was raised and still am a pre vatican II catholic. Every year, the church has made small changes to make it more liberal. If you look up Brother Dimond, he thinks the last couple popes have been anti popes.

www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com...

I don't agree with 100% of everything he says.

Thank you for this interview, we live in interesting times.

reply posted on 17-3-2010 @ 12:10 PM by FortAnthem

Originally posted by mweiss
Not entirely surprised by the report of satanism in the Catholic church. And I am Catholic! I was raised and still am a pre vatican II catholic. Every year, the church has made small changes to make it more liberal. If you look up Brother Dimond, he thinks the last couple popes have been anti popes.

www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com...

I don't agree with 100% of everything he says.

Thank you for this interview, we live in interesting times.

I did a thread on one of those theories a while back; The Siri Thesis - The Pope in Red

I'm a traditionalist leaning Catholic myself.

reply posted on 17-3-2010 @ 12:41 PM by Amagnon

Christianity as created by Constantine, was purely a way to take over leadership of an otherwise subversive religion that was threatening the integrity of the Roman Empire.

It was version that would be generally accepted, and continued to allow the festivals dedicated to the Romanized versions of the Greek pantheon.

Names of Roman Gods were simply changed over to christian ones - statues remained the same, they were just given new names.

Its interesting that the divide inside the Catholic church is deepening - maybe there will be a move by some factions to seize the power of the pope - fun times.

reply posted on 17-3-2010 @ 03:13 PM by thebulldog

an exorcist says the vatican is full of demons? what about the rest of the world. Look at the way we treat each other. Many of us could be considered possessed.
I suppose its the idea of Jesus that should be honoured and not his message then. Shame because, though I don't believe him to be the son of anything but a man and woman, he had some good messages for the world.
If a prayer is powerful by virtue of how long its been around, wouldn't the demons be used to it by now? I don't really understand the whole process but what specifically about new prayers makes them worthless?

Anyone educated in this ritual and its efficacy?

Thanks in advance.

Cheers

reply posted on 17-3-2010 @ 03:48 PM by amfirst

Father Malachi Martain mentions it in his book. He was the advisor to three popes. He says that the New World Order has put their minions in high places such as cardinals and bishops. The third hidden phophecy of fatima fortold this, but was sealed and put away by the pope never to be revealed.

Also, in the higher levels of esoteric mason , u were required to become a ordain priest. I believe this is how they make their way up into the vatican. It's no wonder there r so many petifiles in the church, they are prob members of the illuminati.

[edit on 17-3-2010 by amfirst]

reply posted on 17-3-2010 @ 04:14 PM by Tiger5

reply to post by FortAnthem

I hope that I do not turn into a conspiracy nut but I am beginning to wonder why the exocism ritual was changed? If the ritual worked why change it? I am not a xtian but even I can see that one. Also why not involve the exorcists in the necessary rewrite?

This is alll very strange.

I also do not understand the claim that esoteric masons must be ordained priests for the higher degrees. This is simply not true and have been in contact with several freemasons above the 33rd degree and they all deny this. Where does this come from? I can only assume it is some minor masonic group of dubious lineage but such a requirement is not seen in comasonry or freemasonry.

reply posted on 17-3-2010 @ 06:56 PM by mweiss

Originally posted by Tiger5
reply to post by FortAnthem

I hope that I do not turn into a conspiracy nut but I am beginning to wonder why the exocism ritual was changed? If the ritual worked why change it? I am not a xtian but even I can see that one. Also why not involve the exorcists in the necessary rewrite?

This is alll very strange.

I also do not understand the claim that esoteric masons must be ordained priests for the higher degrees. This is simply not true and have been in contact with several freemasons above the 33rd degree and they all deny this. Where does this come from? I can only assume it is some minor masonic group of dubious lineage but such a requirement is not seen in comasonry or freemasonry.

I think they wrote it different to mess up the religion. To make the exorcist look like a fool to be unable to cast a demon out. I was taught Latin is the only language to use. I know those tv shows mix it with English and Latin.

I think it goes back to the Protocols of Zionist, keep us divided so we never agree. They have done a damn good job on nations, race, and religion of making the human race so violent over petty differences.

I am very interested in the info on priests who are mason. It was well known that Pope John Paul XXIII was a freemason, and he probably did the most damage with Vatican II. (I have no problem with those who go to Vatican II churches, to each their own.)

reply posted on 17-3-2010 @ 08:22 PM by FortAnthem

reply to post by Tiger5

I never heard of the claim that high level Masons or Illuminati had to be ordained into the priesthood until recently. I haven't had time to research this claim.

mweiss stated:

I am very interested in the info on priests who are mason. It was well known that Pope John Paul XXIII was a freemason, and he probably did the most damage with Vatican II. (I have no problem with those who go to Vatican II churches, to each their own.)

That Pope was John XXIII. There was a lot of controvercy and shady goings on during the conclave that elected him and Paul VI. Check out my thread on the Siri Thesis (linked in an earlier post) to learn more.

I found a few links regarding exorcism. The 1st is from the Catholic Encyclopedia:

Catholic Encyclopedia - Exorcism

The next is an article about the new 1999 Rite of Exorcism and includes the entire text of the new rite:

EXORCISM 1999 rite

The following is an article critical of the new rite and does a great job of breaking down the problems with the new rite:

Latin Mass Magazine - The New Rite of Exorcism
The Influence of the Evil One

Changes to the Old Directives to the Exorcist
Other things are of great concern in this new ritual. The Ritual of 1614 contains 21 directives for the exorcist, a magnificent distillation of the accumulated wisdom and experience of the Church. The new preface never gets to the point about the manner of proceeding. The former directives 4-6, 8-9, 13-17, 19-20 have no equivalent in the new ritual’s preface. This means that most (12) of the 21 are deleted. The following former directives have no parallel in the new introduction:

4. In order to better test these signs [of possession], the priest should question the demoniac after one or other exorcism as to what he feels in his mind or body, so that in this way he can also learn which words more greatly disturb the demons, so as then to bear down on them and repeat them all the more.

5. The priest should stay alert for tricks and deceptions that demons use to mislead the exorcist. For they will give false answers as much as possible, and show themselves only with difficulty, in order that the exorcist at length become worn out and give up the exorcism; or the ill person might appear not to be harassed by the devil.

6. Occasionally, after they appear, the demons hide and leave the body almost free of all disturbance, so that the ill person might think he is completely freed. But the exorcist should not stop until he sees the signs of liberation.

8. Some demons point out an act of witchcraft which has been done [to cause possession], by whom it was done, and the way to undo it; but the demoniac should be careful not to have recourse to sorcerers, fortune-tellers, or other such persons, on this account, but should go to the ministers of the Church rather than use any superstitious or otherwise illicit means.

9. Sometimes the devil grants the sick person relief and permits him to receive the Holy Eucharist so that he might seem to have departed. In short, there are countless devices and tricks of the devil to deceive man, which the exorcist should beware, lest he be deceived.

13. …Also relics of Saints, where available, safely and properly fastened and covered, may be reverently applied to the chest or head of the possessed. Care must be taken that the sacred objects are not improperly handled or harmed in any way by the demon. Because of danger of irreverence, the Holy Eucharist should not be placed upon the head of the possessed person or elsewhere on his body.

14. The exorcist should not engage in a great deal of talking or ask unnecessary or curious questions, especially concerning future or secret matters not pertaining to his task. But he should command the unclean spirit to be silent, except to answer his questions. Nor should he believe the demon if he pretends to be the soul of some Saint or deceased person or a good Angel.

15. However, there are necessary questions, for example, concerning the number and names of the possessing spirits, the time and reason they entered, and other things of this sort. The exorcist should restrain or spurn the rest of the devil’s nonsense, laughter and foolishness, and advise those present, who should be few, that they must not pay attention to these things nor question the possessed person, but rather humbly and earnestly pray to God for him.

16. The exorcist should read and carry out the exorcism with strength, authority, great faith, humility and fervor, and when he sees that the spirit is especially tormented, then he should persist and bear down all the more. And whenever he sees that the possessed person is being disturbed in some part of his body, or stung, or that a swelling appears somewhere, he should make the sign of the cross on that area and sprinkle it with holy water which should be on hand.

17. He is also to observe at which words the demons tremble more, and then he should repeat these words more often. When he reaches the threatening words, he should say them repeatedly, always increasing the punishment. If he sees that he is making progress, he should continue for two, three, or four hours, or even longer if he can, until he obtains the victory.

19. If he is exorcising a woman, he should always have persons of integrity with him to hold the possessed person while she is agitated by the demon. These people should be close relatives of the suffering woman if possible. Mindful of decency, the exorcist should be careful not to say or do anything which could be an occasion of an evil thought to himself or the others.

20. While he is exorcising, he should use the words of Sacred Scripture rather than his own or someone else’s. He should command the demon to tell him if he is held in that body because of some magic, or sorcerer’s signs or devices. If the possessed person has consumed things of this sort orally, he should vomit them up. If they are elsewhere outside his body, he should reveal where they are, and once found, they are to be burned. The possessed person should also be advised to make known all his temptations to the exorcist.

These crucial directives, followed by exorcists for 385 years, have no parallel in the new introduction.

The preface explicitly says that lay people may not say any of the prayers of exorcism, and repeats the

reply posted on 4-10-2010 @ 12:31 AM by bosito

Changes to the Old Directives to the Exorcist
Other things are of great concern in this new ritual. The Ritual of 1614 contains 21 directives for the exorcist, a magnificent distillation of the accumulated wisdom and experience of the Church. The new preface never gets to the point about the manner of proceeding. The former directives 4-6, 8-9, 13-17, 19-20 have no equivalent in the new ritual’s preface. This means that most (12) of the 21 are deleted. The following former directives have no parallel in the new introduction:

The fact that they were removed without the consultation of actual exorcists posses a great concern to even me. I am only studying exorcisms and those who preform them...

You would not have amends being made to surgical procedures by those who were not doctors who have been preforming, so why would "non exorcists" decide how to proceed with exorcisms...

reply posted on 4-10-2010 @ 12:58 AM by amfirst

Father Malachi Martain also talks about the veil of the devil entering the chuch. He mentions that the 3rd prophecy of fatima warn of this and that the Illuminati infiltration of the church and bring the devil with them. The pope was suppose to release the prophecy in 1960 as was told by the Virgin because it was only then that people would know what the New World Order is, but he choose not to and now it's too late. Now the church is infested with devil worshipers placed in high places like cardinals and bishops. He also mention that black mass devil rituals was performed in st. peter square.

He says that even people with wives and a family that acts completely normal can be possessed and show no signs because they are in piece with the devil. It is only when they try to resist that they have all those side effects.

Pages: ^^TOP^^