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The Beasts and "Babylon the Great" nailed

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posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by dontreally
Just so you know, again, i dont like these slurs of yours that says 'Jews consider blacks subhuman'. There are many black orthodox Jews, chassidic, who i consider brothers. Judaism is not racial, or ethnic, but religious. any human being can become a Jew. Not just that, every non Jew is beckoned by Jewish law, in Pirkei Avot, Talmud, to be treated with love and respect. All of G-d creations should be treated with love and respect. This is Judaism.


You can't read the Talmud without understanding that the "collective memory" parsed there is the memory of twisted nationalistic and highly "Germanic/Ashkenazi Darwinistic" racists.

Or was what you said here (posted below) not your personal and cultural view? ::


Originally posted by dontreally:
If your a black, gypsy, or anything else deemed inferior, diseased, either physically or mentally, your dead. Thats it. No choice. And also, theres a major divide in the jewish world between the secular and the orthodox.



edit on 23/9/2010 by Neo Christian Mystic because: added Ashkenazi



posted on Sep, 24 2010 @ 11:48 AM
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Talmud was written in the middle east between 200 CE and 800 CE in Babylon and Jerusalem.


edit on 24-9-2010 by dontreally because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 24 2010 @ 02:36 PM
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Originally posted by dontreally


Talmud was written in the middle east between 200 CE and 800 CE in Babylon and Jerusalem.


edit on 24-9-2010 by dontreally because: (no reason given)



Resting on traditions from since Babylon and beyond. Try again.

Hillel from Wiki overview:

Talmudic
Hillel the Elder (~110 BCE - 10 CE), also called Hillel the Babylonian, considered the greatest sage of the Second Temple period
Hillel II (330 – 365 CE), son of Judah III, grandson of Gamliel IV. Nasi of the Jewish community of his day. He is recognized as the founder of the contemporary Jewish (lunar/solar) calendar
Hillel, son of Gamaliel III (third century CE) This Hillel was the son of Gamliel III, grandson of Judah ha-Nasi, and younger brother of Judah Nesiah

en.wikipedia.org...

Nazism was based partly on Hillel's Babylonian Talmud.


edit on 24/9/2010 by Neo Christian Mystic because: Added info and claim about Hillel and the Babylonian Talmud



posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic

Originally posted by dontreally


Talmud was written in the middle east between 200 CE and 800 CE in Babylon and Jerusalem.


edit on 24-9-2010 by dontreally because: (no reason given)



Resting on traditions from since Babylon and beyond. Try again.

Hillel from Wiki overview:

Talmudic
Hillel the Elder (~110 BCE - 10 CE), also called Hillel the Babylonian, considered the greatest sage of the Second Temple period
Hillel II (330 – 365 CE), son of Judah III, grandson of Gamliel IV. Nasi of the Jewish community of his day. He is recognized as the founder of the contemporary Jewish (lunar/solar) calendar
Hillel, son of Gamaliel III (third century CE) This Hillel was the son of Gamliel III, grandson of Judah ha-Nasi, and younger brother of Judah Nesiah

en.wikipedia.org...

Nazism was based partly on Hillel's Babylonian Talmud.


edit on 24/9/2010 by Neo Christian Mystic because: Added info and claim about Hillel and the Babylonian Talmud



do you seriously believe the # you write?


edit on 25-9-2010 by dontreally because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 03:01 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


Yes I do believe the "#" I am refering to. Try explaining Mein Kampf of Hitler with Hillel's Talmud. It is the same ideology. I am more in favour of SunTzu and Plato when it comes to inter minority politics. Talmud and Mein Kampf is racisrtic and nationalsist Darwinism, and Hitler is supposed to have said that he wrote Mein Kampf to be Germany's own Talmud. Only thing he is supposed to have done was to replace Jew=Übermensch with German/Arian=Übermensch, and Kanaanean/Palestinian=Untermensch with Jew=Untermensch. How a nation can allow their scribal ad priestly elite to follow a tradition of Talmud baffles me. In my eyes the tradition is nationalisti-racistic darwinismand will only breed more violence and give idiots power when they should have been working on roads and telecommunications etc. Anything but politics.



posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
reply to post by dontreally
 


Yes I do believe the "#" I am refering to. Try explaining Mein Kampf of Hitler with Hillel's Talmud. It is the same ideology. I am more in favour of SunTzu and Plato when it comes to inter minority politics. Talmud and Mein Kampf is racisrtic and nationalsist Darwinism, and Hitler is supposed to have said that he wrote Mein Kampf to be Germany's own Talmud. Only thing he is supposed to have done was to replace Jew=Übermensch with German/Arian=Übermensch, and Kanaanean/Palestinian=Untermensch with Jew=Untermensch. How a nation can allow their scribal ad priestly elite to follow a tradition of Talmud baffles me. In my eyes the tradition is nationalisti-racistic darwinismand will only breed more violence and give idiots power when they should have been working on roads and telecommunications etc. Anything but politics.


Now, without the ability to read aramaic, how could you possibly know anything about Talmud?

Im convinced youre just spreading your venemous little lies for the sake of 'poesis' your magical tranformation of reality into the perception youd like to create for those who come into this thread and read your deluded posts. This is Pikei Avot - ethics of the fathers. A tractate of Talmud. This should show how highly ethical Judaism is. To even compare Talmud to Hitlerian theology is not only typical offensive antisemitic propaganda - generally fabricated by gnostics, but, bespeaks an unbelievable ignorance of Talmud in general. But mentioning this is already redundant. you dont care, you'll just insist after this post that Judaism is racist ubermanch w/e. Like how last time i explained to you honestly and sincerely how Judaism has very great merits, you turned it aroud on me like the wily coyote that you are, and said i considered Blacks, gypsies and the infirm as inferior. Your a cheap excuse for a human if your gonna do that. and i can assure to the stock taker, HaShem, is aware of you do. You can play these little games all you like. It doesnt bother me one iota. Im defending Judaism cause its the truth. If its not your truth, fine. But atleast dont spread lies about it. Judaism has always been perseucuted by the christian and pagan power of europe and the middle east - from babylonian to modern times. The only reason why this is is because the Pagan powers placed on thier Jewish garment and have pretended for some 2000 years to be the new israel -to have dispaced the jewish religino they so loath. But, Judaism will persevere, as will its message to mankind and its purpose in this world. To bring all people together, as it says in Isaiah, to worship the g-d of creation at the New temple in Jerusalem

now, heres pirkei avot.

Ethical Principles

The number of commentaries written on Pirkei Avot testify that it contains far more content and structure than can be captured in a simple outline. The following list aims merely to group some of the general principles found in the work.
[edit] Show kindness to others

* "The world stands on three things: On Torah, on prayer ("avoda"; can also mean sacrificial offerings), and on kindness to others" (1:2)
* "Your house should be open wide, and you should make the poor members of your household." (1:5)
* "Meet every person with graciousness." (1:15)
* "He [Yohanan ben Zakkai] said: 'Go and see what is the right way that a man should seek for himself.' Rabbi Eliezer said 'A good eye'. Rabbi Yehoshua said 'A good friend'. Rabbi Yose said 'A good neighbor'. Rabbi Shimon said 'One who sees consequences.' Rabbi Elazar said 'A good heart'. He [Yohanan] said to them, 'I prefer the words of Rabbi Elazar ben Arach to yours, because his words include yours as well.'" (2:13)

[edit] Respect the other person

* "What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow" (Shab. 31a)
* "What is the right path a man should choose? Whatever is honorable to himself, and honorable in the eyes of others." (2:1)
* "Let your friend's honor be more dear to you than your own." (2:15)
* "The evil eye, the evil inclination, and hatred of men, drive a person out of the world." (2:16)
* "Let your friend's money be more dear to you than our own." (2:17)

[edit] Respect yourself

* "If I am not for myself, who will be for me?" (1:14)
* "What is the right path a man should choose? Whatever is honorable to himself, and honorable in the eyes of others." (2:1)
* "In a place where there are no worthy men, strive to be worthy." (2:6)
* "He who acquires a good name, has acquired himself something indeed." (2:8)
* "Do not regard yourself as an evil person." (2:18)

[edit] Respect God

* "Do His will as if it were your own, so that He will do his will as it were yours. Nullify your own will before His so that he will nullify the will of others before you." (2:4)

[edit] Seek peace

* "Be amongst the students of Aaron: Love peace and pursue peace. Love people and bring them close to Torah." (1:12)
* "The more charity the more peace" (2:8)

[edit] Take precaution to avoid transgressions

* "Make a fence for the Torah" (1:1)
* "Keep far from an evil neighbor, do not befriend a wicked person, and do not despair of divine retribution" (1:7)
* "Evaluate the loss of not fulfilling a commandment against its reward, and the reward of committing a transgression against its loss. Consider three things, and you will not come to sin: Know what is above you, a seeing eye, a hearing ear, and all of your deeds written down in a book." (2:1)

[edit] Be humble

* "Love work, and despise official positions, and do not become too acquainted with the governing power." (1:10)
* "One who makes a name great, destroys it" (1:13)
* "Anyone who works for the community, let your work with them be for the sake of Heaven... And as for you all, I will make your reward great as though you had accomplished all the work." (2:2)
* "Be cautious regarding the ruling power. Because they only befriend a person when it serves themselves. They appear as friends when it suits them, but they do not stand by a man in his time of need." (2:3)
* "Do not separate yourself from the community, and do not be sure of yourself until your day of death." (2:5)
* "The more flesh, the more worms. The more possessions, the more worry. The more wives, the more witchcraft. The more maidservants, the more uncouthness. The more servants, the more theft." (2:8)
* "If you have learned much Torah, do not flatter yourself about it, because it was for this purpose you were created." (2:9)
* "Let all your deeds be for the sake of Heaven." (2:17)

[edit] Immerse yourself in learning

* "Let your house be a meeting place for scholars, and sit at the dust by their feet, and drink up their words with thirst." (1:4)
* "Make for yourself a teacher, and acquire for yourself a companion." (1:6)
* "If a man does not increase (his knowledge), he will decrease (it). If he does not study, he deserves to die." (1:13)
* "Give your learning a fixed time." (1:15)
* "The more Torah, the more life. The more learning, the more wisdom. The more counsel, the more understanding... He who acquires for himself words of Torah, acquires life in the World To Come." (2:8)
* "Warm yourself by the fire of the Sages, but be careful that you not be burnt by their glowing coals, for their bite is that of the fox, their sting is that of the scorpion, their hiss is that of the serpent, and all their words are like fiery coals." (2:15)
* "Prepare yourself to study Torah, because it does not come to you as an inheritance." (2:17)
* "Be diligent in the study of Torah." (2:19)

[edit] Be circumspect in prayer

* "Be careful when reciting the Shema and tefilla. Do not pray as though by rote, but plead for mercy and grace before God." (2:18)

[edit] Combine Torah learning with labor

* "Torah learning is best combined with an occupation, because the effort of both will keep one from sin. Torah study alone without work will in the end be nullified and lead to sin." (2:2)

[edit] Do not exploit your learning

* "One who uses the crown will pass away" (1:13)

[edit] Be careful with speech

* "All my life I was raised amongst the Sages, and I never found anything better for a person than silence... one who talks too much causes sin." (1:17)
* "Do not speak (excessively) much with women. This regards a man's own wife, how much more so regarding another man's wife!" (1:5)
* "Sages, you should be careful in what you say, lest you merit exile and be sent to a place of evil waters, and your pupils who follow you will die, and the name of Heaven will be disgraced." (1:11)
* "Say little and do much." (1:15)
* "Do not say something that cannot be understood, thinking it will be understood later." (2:5)

[edit] Do not seek rewards

* "Do not be like slaves who serve the master in order to obtain a reward. Rather, be like slaves who serve the master not to receive a reward. And let the fear of Heaven be upon you." (1:3)
* Be as careful in observance of a minor commandment as in a major commandment, because you don't know the respective rewards for the commandments. (2:1)

[edit] Do not leap to judge another person

* "Judge every person favorably" (1:6)
* "Do not judge your fellow until you have stood in his place." (2:5)

[edit] Be fair and deliberate in legal decision

* "When judging, do not act as an advocate. When the litigants are before you, regard them all as guilty. And when leave you, regard them all as meritorious, when they have accepted your judgment." (1:8)
* "Be thorough in examining witnesses, and watch what you say, so they do not learn from you how to lie." (1:9)
* "On three things does the world stand: On justice, truth, and peace." (1:18)

[edit] Be fair and deliberate in business
[edit] The time for action is now

* "If not now, when?" (1:14)
* "The main thing is not study, but doing." (1:17)
* "Do not say 'I will study when I have the time', for perhaps you will never have time." (2:5)

[edit] Seek an even temperament

* "A boor cannot be sin-fearing, and an ignoramus cannot be pious. A shy person cannot learn, and an impatient person cannot teach." (2:6)
* "Do not be quick to anger." (2:15)

[edit] The punishment matches the sin

* "He saw a skull floating on the water, and said to it, 'Because you drowned others, they drowned you. And they will also eventually be drowned because they drowned you.'" (2:7)



posted on Sep, 27 2010 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by dontreally
Now, without the ability to read aramaic, how could you possibly know anything about Talmud?


Exactly the same way I am able to read the Tanakh in English. The age where Jews could keep this godless darwinist tradition secret is over.

How about www.halakhah.com... or wilkerson.110mb.com... or simply do a simple search in google for English Talmud: www.google.no...

Or how about Amazon?


edit on 27/9/2010 by Neo Christian Mystic because: Made the Amazon link clickable


And Here are some highlights


edit on 27/9/2010 by Neo Christian Mystic because: Added last line with link to revisionhistory.org



posted on Sep, 27 2010 @ 12:13 PM
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reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic
 


Here are some examples of how racistic and darwinist the Babylonian Talmud is:


Some Teachings of the Jewish Talmud

Where a Jew Should Do Evil



Moed Kattan 17a: If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there.

Penalty for Disobeying Rabbis

Erubin 21b. Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell.

Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God

Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (gentile) hits a Jew, the gentile must be killed.

O.K. to Cheat Non-Jews

Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a gentile ("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work.

Jews Have Superior Legal Status

Baba Kamma 37b. "If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full."

Jews May Steal from Non-Jews

Baba Mezia 24a . If a Jew finds an object lost by a gentile ("heathen") it does not have to be returned. (Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b). Sanhedrin 76a. God will not spare a Jew who "marries his daughter to an old man or takes a wife for his infant son or returns a lost article to a Cuthean..."

Jews May Rob and Kill Non-Jews

Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.

Baba Kamma 37b. The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has "exposed their money to Israel."

Source: www.revisionisthistory.org...



posted on Sep, 27 2010 @ 01:12 PM
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Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic
 


Here are some examples of how racistic and darwinist the Babylonian Talmud is:


Some Teachings of the Jewish Talmud

Where a Jew Should Do Evil



Moed Kattan 17a: If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there.

Penalty for Disobeying Rabbis

Erubin 21b. Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell.

Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God

Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (gentile) hits a Jew, the gentile must be killed.

O.K. to Cheat Non-Jews

Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a gentile ("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work.

Jews Have Superior Legal Status

Baba Kamma 37b. "If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full."

Jews May Steal from Non-Jews

Baba Mezia 24a . If a Jew finds an object lost by a gentile ("heathen") it does not have to be returned. (Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b). Sanhedrin 76a. God will not spare a Jew who "marries his daughter to an old man or takes a wife for his infant son or returns a lost article to a Cuthean..."

Jews May Rob and Kill Non-Jews

Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.

Baba Kamma 37b. The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has "exposed their money to Israel."

Source: www.revisionisthistory.org...


You are such an ignoramus. If you study mysticism, you should realize the talmud means much more than the literal interpretation is offering. Its deep, abstract, similar to the Zen koan, the talmudic anecdote contains a deep philosophical message that first has to be intellectually deduced.

Talmud Moed Kattan 17a

Rabbi Ila'i said: If a person is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known, dress in black clothes, cover his head in black, and do what his heart desires so that G-d's name will not be desecrated.

Note the part of the passage that is not quoted in the accusation. The accusers do not mention that this person (not necessarily a Jew) must dress in black and cover his head. Why should this be if the Talmud is offering advice on how to commit a crime? Quite the opposite, this person should try to blend in with everyone else. Rather the Talmud is offering very sound psychological advice. This person is not directly told "You can't do it." That advice to a person steeped in desire is meaningless because the person has lost control of his actions. Rather, the person is bidden to first delay his intended actions by going to a city where he is not known. This lengthy trip will serve as a cooling off period. He is then told to dress humbly which should further serve as a reminder of what he should be doing compared to what he plans on doing. Rather than offering carte blanche permission to sin, the Talmud is suggesting a form of indirect rebuke to prevent the person from sinning [see Rashi in the name of Rav Hai Gaon and Chiddushei HaRan; Tosafot, Kiddushin 40a]. The desecration of G-d's name is a subterfuge to convince this sick individual to follow the path to health.

The Accusation

Yebhamot 11b: "Sexual intercourse with a little girl is permitted if she is three years of age."

Aboda Sarah 37a: "A gentile girl who is three years old can be violated."

The Text

Talmud Ketuvot 11b (The citation mentioned is evidently in error. Talmud Yevamot 11b has no relevant passage)

Rav Yehudah said in the name of Rav: A male child who has relations with a female adult causes her to be like one who was injured with a stick... Rava said: This is what was meant - an adult male who has relations with a female child has not done anything because less than this [three years old] is like sticking a finger into an eyeball.

While those unused to these Talmudic discussions might be taken aback by the use of euphemisms, the discussion here relates to the dowry for virgins and non-virgins. A virgin receives a higher dowry. While the tell-tale sign of virginity is the release of blood due to the breaking of the hyman on the wedding night, there are occasions when the hyman has already been broken such as when the woman suffered an injury. The Talmud here adds that a sexual act with a male minor is not considered to be a loss of virginity because one of the participants is not fully active. While the female's hyman may have been broken, she has not engaged in what can be classified as a sexual act (although it is certainly child abuse).

The Talmud continues that a sexual act between a male adult and a female under the age of three is also not considered a loss of virginity (although it is child abuse). Since the girl is too young for her hyman to be broken, she is still considered a virgin.

Nowhere is the Talmud permitting such behavior. Sex outside of a marriage is strictly forbidden (Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Hilchot Ishut 1:4, Hilchot Na'arah Betulah 2:17; Shulchan Aruch, Even HaEzer 26:1, 177:5) as is this obvious case of child abuse. The Talmud is only discussing ex post facto what would happen if such a case arose.

The same usage occurs in the passage in Talmud Avodah Zarah 37a. The Talmud states that at the age of three a girl is capable of participating in a sexual act. However, that act is not permissible. See also Jerusalem Talmud Ketuvot 1:2 (4b).

The Accusation

Sanhedrin 59a: "A goy (Gentile) who pries into The Law (Talmud) is guilty of death."

The Text

Talmud Sanhedrin 59a

Rabbi Yochanan said: A gentile who studies Torah is liable for death as it says (Deuteronomy 33:4) "Moses commanded us Torah as a heritage." It is a heritage for us and not for them... Rabbi Meir would say: How do we know that even a gentile who engages in the study of Torah is like a Jewish high priest? As it says (Leviticus 18:5) "Which man shall do [i.e. study] and by which he shall live [in the afterlife]." It does not say "priests, Levites, and Israelites" but "man". We learn from here that even a gentile who engages in the study of Torah is like a Jewish high priest. [We answer the contradiction between Rabbi Yochanan's statement and Rabbi Meir's that] there [Rabbi Meir] is referring to their seven commandments.

The Talmud provides a contradiction between two statements regarding whether a gentile is allowed to study Torah. The accusation only quotes one side and does not provide the resolution. By seeing the whole text and the resolution we can better understand the Talmud's intent.

What the accusation also does not quote is the passage immediately preceding ours. The Talmud states that it is forbidden for a gentile to fully observe the Jewish Sabbath and holidays. While this does not seem as conspiratorial as the prohibition against studying Torah it is still curious. Why should it be? The explanation is tied to the Talmud's resolution to the contradiction between Rabbi Yochanan and Rabbi Meir. The Talmud concludes that both rabbis agree but one was stating that a gentile is forbidden to study the parts of Torah that discuss the commandments relating specifically to Jews and the other was stating that a gentile is highly praised for studying the parts of Torah that discuss the commandments that relate to him. In other words, a gentile should be concerned with his role in G-d's world. He should actively pursue his place in the divine plan and attempt to raise himself to the highest human levels. However, as a righteous gentile, he must confine himself to HIS role and not someone else's role. When he starts studying about Jewish commandments and observing Jewish holidays, he is stepping out of his role as a righteous gentile and entering the role of a Jew. This is as inappropriate as if a Jew would start acting in the role of a righteous gentile. We all have our roles in the world and it is wrong to try to side-step those roles. A gentile can become a Jew through conversion but a righteous gentile is righteous in his own right and is forbidden to try to over-step his role.

The Accusation
Talmud Erubin 21b. Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be punished by being boiled in hot excrement in Hell.



The Text

Talmud Eruvin 21b

(Ecclesiastes 12:12) "And extensive study (lahag) is physically exhausting." Rav Papa bar Rav Acha bar Ada said in the name of Rav Acha bar Ula: This teaches that everyone who mocks (mal'ig) the words of the sages will be punished in burning excrement. Rava attacked: It does not say la'ag but lahag. Rather, whoever studies (hogeh) them will taste delectable meat.



The accusation crucially mistranslates "mocks" as "disobeys" which changes the meaning of the passage. The accusation also neglects to point out that the statement is disproven. However, the point still remains that, as demanded in Deuteronomy 17:8-13, Jews must follow the rulings of their judges i.e. the rabbis.


talmud.faithweb.com...



posted on Sep, 29 2010 @ 07:51 AM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


I appreciate your efforts to further explain how the Talmud is darwinist and racistic. You say that The Talmud's subjects are ANY people. Well, I can agree, seeing how people converting to Judaism all over the world automatically may enter Israel's military and even politics and become residents of Israel, thus forcing the nation's indigenous people out of their homes and into UN refugee camps. The growing number of far right religious fanatics within Israel is something we should look at and deal with, not something that should be allowed to grow further.

Firstly, only two of the original tribes are present in Israel, and bizarre enough, these are all belonging to either Judah (which is another nation than Israel) and Levi (who has no rights of land in the Land). In the Book of Joshuah Judah is given Negev, Jerusalem and the areas south of Jerusalem, so in effect the present population in Israel should be relieved of the other Israeli territories.

And if you'd like to use Judah's post exile expansion in the Land, let me bring in a golden skin: Jerusalem is actually still owned, by deed, by the Habsburg blood line (the former Austrian-Hungarian royal line) since the Crusades. Luckilly for UN and the present day Israel, the Habsburgs left the political scene soon after WW1, so they have never made demands to the Holy Land where they also own the legal rights to several other cities and areas.




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