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OP/ED: Is China preparing for a conflict over Taiwan?

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posted on Jun, 2 2004 @ 11:39 PM
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This is an update from the Washington times about this situation. If possible can a moderator change the heading from OP/ED to NEWS, this is more than just opinion, it is a report from news sources, thank you.

China war games seen as 'message'
"A U.S. intelligence official said the exercises will begin later this month.
"It isn't just a training exercise. It's also intended to send a political message [to Taiwan]," the official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity.
The official said the political message in the exercises is one of "military readiness," intended to signal to Taiwan that China is ready to use force if necessary to reunite the island with the mainland."




posted on Jun, 3 2004 @ 02:15 AM
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Originally posted by Muaddib

You are totally wrong....Tiananmen Square was not right in any way...not at all....those people were not even armed, and it shows the way that the Chinese government resolves what you call "peace."

The Chinese government said there were 300 deaths, but the body count was much higher. Amnesty International said the toll was 1,000 deaths, and other western estimates puts the count higher. None of these people had a gun to defend themselves or to have the China's government order their police to open fire on these people.

[Edited on 2-6-2004 by Muaddib]


As for the Tiananmen Square, the conclusions depends on your taking which perspective. if the perspective is from the human rights, i.e. what you have said above, I agree with you. However, many things have its own characteristics and can not seen only from the perspective of human rights. The Tiananmen Square is true of this. The Tiananmen Square has so many international hostile factors to China. if the Tiananmen Square hadn't been appeased, China would have come into chaos and our country would have been split also. This is the most concern for Chinese. Therefore, in this point, I support the China's goverment. I think the goverment should have taken other ways to appease the event other than the military way, but history can not replay, and it is a shame.

I'm not a chicom and only a ordinary Chinese. I have been sympathizing the dead and thinking them as heroes. The dead heroes have been receiving the respects from the most of Chinese.



[Edited on 3-6-2004 by devmim]

[Edited on 3-6-2004 by devmim]



posted on Jun, 3 2004 @ 02:41 AM
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Originally posted by Muaddib

Another thing, the US has never openly said that a war with China is inevitable, it has been the Chinese government's decision to state in public, several times, that a war with the US is inevitable either way, and it has always been China who starts "military exercises" close enough to Taiwan to try to submit the Taiwanese people with a show of force.

[Edited on 2-6-2004 by Muaddib]


As for as I know, any Chinese leaders have not said "a war with the US is inevitable " and hostile words to Taiwan and US. But, the president Bush has said similar words to China, and the president Clinton has ordered the US aircraft carriers to the China's Taiwan Strait that encroached on our country's sovereignty.

The "military exercises" happen often not only in China but in Taiwan and US aiming to China. Don't always stare at China. The Taiwan has long been utilized by US to realize US's interests. The Taiwan is only a PUPPET of US and is very pitiful. If US is not intervening the Taiwan problem, China will not definitely carry out any "military exercises" at all. All the adversities are made by US. Don't complain about China, and you should seek Taiwan's Dad to complain about it!




[Edited on 3-6-2004 by devmim]



posted on Jun, 3 2004 @ 02:49 AM
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What did Chi mean then when he said this, which I posted in my previous response....

"Defense Minister Chi Haotian painted a stark picture of Communist China's future relations with the United States. "Seen from the changes in the world situation and the United States' hegemonic strategy for creating monopolarity, war is inevitable," Chi said. "We cannot avoid it."

What, you want to keep Taiwan to add to your count in genocide? Isn't over 35 million dead of your own people enough for you?

BTW, I posted links to what your government have said, can you please post reliable link where Bush threatens China?



posted on Jun, 3 2004 @ 03:08 AM
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Originally posted by Muaddib

If it was only a small portion of the Taiwanese people that wanted this then I would understand why China wouldn't want the independance of Taiwan, but all or most Taiwanese want this independance, there is only a 10% of 23 million people consider themselves Chinese. I am sure they do not want to see another "Tainanmen Square" in Taiwan if the people ever have to peacefully protest against the Chinese government.

[Edited on 2-6-2004 by Muaddib]


You are very ignorant too.


I almost know anything happened in Taiwan through phoenix TV in Hongkong, do you know this TV station? You can see that in any place in the world.

What you have said above totally wrong! The fact is the most Taiwanese don't want to be unified by mainland other than to be independent. Do you know the result of the Taiwan's Referendum in March 20,2004 ? The Taiwanese don't want to be independent and only hope keep the present situation stable, i.e no independence and no unification. However, the US and a few of Taiwanese want to break it, which provoked the present intense situation and may lead to a crisis.

Please wise up!



[Edited on 3-6-2004 by devmim]



posted on Jun, 3 2004 @ 03:17 AM
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Didn't the Percentage of votes of the Taiwanese people....in March or something like that go something like this:

51% to someone who wants to remain ununified with China so there is no war, but start more processes in Government to get more independant from China but still stay under the good books with China by not going totally independant away from China...Basically Remaining Chinese?

And 49% for some guy who wanted to really push for independence from China making Taiwan their own Country and themselves the Taiwanese.
And ont he last day of votes, or that day of voting, He got shot at and nearly killed, or maybe it was a week before the election.... And he believes that may have swung voters into voting for the other guy.

Am i on the right track here?



posted on Jun, 3 2004 @ 03:36 AM
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Originally posted by Muaddib

BTW, i was born in a communist country, and lived under communism until I was 8 years old. I remember what being under communism means, how the regime controls the media and the people completely. Any sign of disagreement with any communist/true socialist regime means either torture and jail or death.

And you want to name the US as a gruesome country.....you have really got to be kidding... Any communist country is evil incarnate, and I am not religious. If evil really exists its manifestation is communism/socialism.

Your so beloved government has killed since 1900-1987 35,236,000 people. That's over 35 million of your own people, and that's only what we know....

[Edited on 2-6-2004 by Muaddib]


Do you still live in Stone Age? Why is your idea about China so stereotype?

I admit what have said above partly true for past China, but China is progressing rapidly in any respects including the democracy. Now the limitations is more and more loose in China. Although I also often criticize and even abuse the China's government and CCP, yet I'm basically sastified with their performance.

Even though the China's goverment unjustly even tyrannically treated me in past, at no time I will do anthing to harm our country, which is our Chinese culture. Perhaps you don't know that. After all, China have a bright future and I love her deeply!

BTW, all the scandals about China is not secret for me and most Chinese, the current China is open, perhaps, I know more than you, Do you know this?



posted on Jun, 3 2004 @ 03:54 AM
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Originally posted by Muaddib

Do not even think you can lie here about which government is gruesome. Communism should not exist at all, in a way communists share what the radical Islamists want. Either the total submission of the west and the world being communist, or the destruction of the west. The difference with radical Islam is that the terrorists want Islam to dominate the world or the destruction of the west.

[Edited on 2-6-2004 by Muaddib]



It's a shame for you! Your thoughts are still stay in the level of Cold-War.


"Communists " has earlier given place to the National Interests in China. In China only theoretical researchers are still interested in that! No matter "Communists " or "capitalisms" or even "China's own road", if any one of them fits China, we'll adopt it, and we adopt any excellent things of any systems including the US's.



posted on Jun, 3 2004 @ 03:59 AM
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Can somoene with information answer my question, sorta question?

Am i right or am i not? And if so, how am i not right?

BEcause from what i've heard...That's what happened. I doubt many people over her ein Australia has heard much about the Taiwanese and what happened witht election and what the people think. So am i right? Or not and if not please explain why?



posted on Jun, 3 2004 @ 04:08 AM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
This is an update from the Washington times about this situation. If possible can a moderator change the heading from OP/ED to NEWS, this is more than just opinion, it is a report from news sources, thank you.

China war games seen as 'message'
"A U.S. intelligence official said the exercises will begin later this month.
"It isn't just a training exercise. It's also intended to send a political message [to Taiwan]," the official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity.
The official said the political message in the exercises is one of "military readiness," intended to signal to Taiwan that China is ready to use force if necessary to reunite the island with the mainland."



This exercise will be carried out in Dongshan island in Fujian Province near to Taiwan in June. The number of soldiers is about 18,000.



posted on Jun, 3 2004 @ 04:28 AM
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Originally posted by Muaddib

BTW, I posted links to what your government have said, can you please post reliable link where Bush threatens China?


If you can read Chinese language, I will give a link, please tell me.

I'm pleased to hear the words of the Chinese Defense Minister Chi Haotian if it is true. But i doubt its authenticity because that important address can not be obtained by US, and i think it is a composition of CIA.



posted on Jun, 3 2004 @ 06:15 AM
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Originally posted by devmim
As for the Tiananmen Square, the conclusions depends on your taking which perspective. if the perspective is from the human rights, i.e. what you have said above, I agree with you. However, many things have its own characteristics and can not seen only from the perspective of human rights. The Tiananmen Square is true of this. The Tiananmen Square has so many international hostile factors to China. if the Tiananmen Square hadn't been appeased, China would have come into chaos and our country would have been split also. This is the most concern for Chinese.


If tienamen square hadn't been repressed you might have had...oh my god...freedom of speech!


Doesn't matter, China's semi-moving in the right direction because of mixed thoughts such as yours..."support government but don't support how it acted" such and such...but the Government will only let you go so far.



posted on Jun, 3 2004 @ 06:22 AM
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Originally posted by devmim

Originally posted by Muaddib
After all the talks with Chinese officials, it has always been clear that Text. A new Pentagon analysis states that China may be modifying its tactics for military action over Taiwan.

Communist leaders in Beijing have long talked of a "peaceful reunification" with Taiwan, but military preparations seem to contradict that talk, according to a Pentagon analysis.



The US has always declared to China that the US will abide by the principle of the one China. On the contrary of this, the US, However, have abjectly support Taiwan for independence, which demonstrate that the US purely is a liar. The US is selling advanced weapons to Taiwan but banning other counties to do so for China, publicly supporting the separation movement of Taiwan, swinishly setting several obstacles for China to unify their country, and etc.

China loves peace, but US loves war. The Chinese people do want the "peaceful reunification", but US don't want.


What a crock...Taiwan is the legitimate government of China, not your Maoist decent. The nationalist government was what fought and over-threw the Emperor...then were over-thrown by the Communists later, and they fled to Taiwan.



posted on Jun, 3 2004 @ 12:41 PM
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Your so beloved government has killed since 1900-1987 35,236,000 people. That's over 35 million of your own people, and that's only what we know....


I'm sure the US is responsable for far more innocent deaths since 1900, especially since WW2. Is it much different, that these deaths are inflicted on 3rd world nations rather then American citizens? The reasoning is the same; to force compliance, whether it be your own citizens or developing countries.

-raven

[Edited on 3-6-2004 by raven2012]



posted on Jun, 7 2004 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by adcadcadc


The US is selling advanced weapons to Taiwan but banning other counties to do so for China


One reason: Taiwan is Democratic and China is Communist/Socialist.

The vast majority of Taiwanese people I know support eventual independence from China, unless China becomes Democratic. Even if China becomes Democratic, 50 years of separation have created a separate Cultural and Nationalistic identity for the Taiwanese Nation.


Just one small correction, it has been more than 100 years of separation. Taiwan was a Japanese colony beginning in 1895.



posted on Jun, 7 2004 @ 10:26 PM
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Originally posted by devmim

Originally posted by Muaddib

Another thing, the US has never openly said that a war with China is inevitable, it has been the Chinese government's decision to state in public, several times, that a war with the US is inevitable either way, and it has always been China who starts "military exercises" close enough to Taiwan to try to submit the Taiwanese people with a show of force.

[Edited on 2-6-2004 by Muaddib]


As for as I know, any Chinese leaders have not said "a war with the US is inevitable " and hostile words to Taiwan and US. But, the president Bush has said similar words to China, and the president Clinton has ordered the US aircraft carriers to the China's Taiwan Strait that encroached on our country's sovereignty.

The "military exercises" happen often not only in China but in Taiwan and US aiming to China. Don't always stare at China. The Taiwan has long been utilized by US to realize US's interests. The Taiwan is only a PUPPET of US and is very pitiful. If US is not intervening the Taiwan problem, China will not definitely carry out any "military exercises" at all. All the adversities are made by US. Don't complain about China, and you should seek Taiwan's Dad to complain about it!




[Edited on 3-6-2004 by devmim]


As for military exercises. China's military exercises are designed to practice invasions of the country. Taiwan's exercises are defensive in nature. Taiwan has no plans or desire to attack China. It is China who is clearly the aggressor here and wants to end the freedom of the Taiwanese people.



posted on Jun, 7 2004 @ 10:31 PM
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Originally posted by devmim
You are very ignorant too.


I almost know anything happened in Taiwan through phoenix TV in Hongkong, do you know this TV station? You can see that in any place in the world.

What you have said above totally wrong! The fact is the most Taiwanese don't want to be unified by mainland other than to be independent. Do you know the result of the Taiwan's Referendum in March 20,2004 ? The Taiwanese don't want to be independent and only hope keep the present situation stable, i.e no independence and no unification. However, the US and a few of Taiwanese want to break it, which provoked the present intense situation and may lead to a crisis.

Please wise up!



[Edited on 3-6-2004 by devmim]


The referenda here in Taiwan had nothing to do with independence. They failed due to a boycott of the opposition. 50% of qualified voters must vote for it to be valid. 80% of voters voted in the presidential election, but only 45% voted in the referenda. If those who truly wanted to vote no actually voted rather than listen to the pleas of their chicken-hearted, anti-democratic pan-Blue KMT leaders, BOTH refernda would have passed.

Furthermore, neither referenda addressed "independence". They addressed spending more money on defensive weapons systems and opening a dialogue with Beijing on an equal basis.

I don't trust anything coming out of Hong Kong regarding Taiwan these days, especially as China continues to clamp down on the former British colony.

My source of information? I ACTUALLY LIVE HERE!!!!



posted on Jun, 7 2004 @ 10:35 PM
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Originally posted by DaRAGE
Can somoene with information answer my question, sorta question?

Am i right or am i not? And if so, how am i not right?

BEcause from what i've heard...That's what happened. I doubt many people over her ein Australia has heard much about the Taiwanese and what happened witht election and what the people think. So am i right? Or not and if not please explain why?


The pro-independence candidate received 50.1 percent of the vote while the KMT candidate received 49.9. However, even Lien (the KMT candidate) moved away from the "reunification" issue because he knows that there is no support for it in Taiwan outside of the 20 percent of solid pan-Blue support (mostly those who came in 1949 to enslave the island under Chinese military rule._ The electorate is shifting to the Pan-Green (pro declaration of independence side). In 1996, the DPP candidate received 22 percent of the vote. In 2000, Chen won with a 39 percent plurality. THis year, he received a fraction over 50% to win an outright majority. China and the KMT both know that the trends of electoral politics are against them. There is also a very good likelyhood that the DPP (and their TSU allies) will gain a majority in the Legislative Yuan in December legislative elections.



posted on Jun, 7 2004 @ 10:36 PM
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Originally posted by raven2012


Your so beloved government has killed since 1900-1987 35,236,000 people. That's over 35 million of your own people, and that's only what we know....


I'm sure the US is responsable for far more innocent deaths since 1900, especially since WW2. Is it much different, that these deaths are inflicted on 3rd world nations rather then American citizens? The reasoning is the same; to force compliance, whether it be your own citizens or developing countries.

-raven

[Edited on 3-6-2004 by raven2012]


That is a bunch of crap. Let's add the number of China's deaths to those in Tibet, Burma, Nepal, Sudan and other countries where they support dictatorial government!



posted on Jun, 7 2004 @ 10:48 PM
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Originally posted by devmim

Originally posted by longbow

Originally posted by mbkennel


China does a first-strike with small neutron bombs against Taiwanese military targets, and one against the Taipei international airport. Civilian casualties are about 1500, less than US did in Iraq and Afghanistan, as China points out.

The Taiwanese navy and airforce is devastated---planes have nowhere to land. Airfields are too radioactive to rebuild. Naval ships have nowhere to supply. China has total air superiority from the mainland, and protecting their invasion convoys.



The only one problem is that China has no neutron bomb.


I'm very happy to look at your ignorance.
If the all American are like you, I will more happy
. In order to reduce the number of the American ignorant people, let me tell you the truth about the neutron bomb
.

On July 15, 1999, the China has officially declared the possession of its own neutron bomb
.


Everyone is so intent on going to war and dropping nukes
on the World........If war is around the corner all Countries
involved will be using all conventional and unconventional
weapons such as star wars, flying triangles etc., does China
have a counter to a space based emp delivery device?
makes you wonder



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