The right-wing of the Democratic Party is the obstacle to passing health reform, page 1

privacy

Pages: << 1 2 >>
ATS Members have flagged this thread 1 times

Topic started on 15-3-2010 @ 02:01 PM by Sestias

alternet.org

While Dennis Kucinich's opposition to the health reform bill has taken up a good deal of attention online, a look at the vote count shows that the difficulty in passing the health reform bill comes overwhelmingly from the right-wing of the party.

The "maybe" group includes anyone from "lean no" to "lean yes."

The final group of members who need to be won over have voted pretty conservatively, both in 2009-2010 and throughout their careers. In order to win those votes over, some of the largest progressive organizations are now bringing the hammer down. MoveOn.org, whose members endorsed the bill by a vote of 83%-17%, is raising money for primary challenges against any Democrat who votes "no." SEIU is threatening to not only withdraw all support from Democrats who vote "no," but is even suggesting primary challenges, too.

The shift in focus from MoveOn and labor, combined with the ideological orientation of the Democrats who are publicly undecided, shows we have entered a different phase of the fight. While there will inevitably be some continued left-wing opposition to the bill, as we enter the final week of the process in the House the main focus is going to be about twisting the arms of enough center-right Democrats to finish the job.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

It may not be good form for someone (like me) who basically supports HCR to air the Democrats' internal differences in public. But I think it's no secret there is a right wing of the party that is now more aligned with the conservatives than the liberals.

This is partly why it has been such a hard uphill struggle to enact any reform in Congress.

Democrats have the majority, yes, but not all of them are on board with health care. There needs to be some pressure put on the right wing of the party.

IMO the Democratic right-wingers are trying to hold onto their seats in districts where there are as many conservatives as there are liberals. The mainstream of the party may very well mount challenges to these incumbents when November rolls around.

[edit on 15-3-2010 by Sestias]

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 02:19 PM by anon72

Most people are NOT opposed to H.C.R. They ARE opposed to the way the Dems are doing it and more so about what is in it.

If the Dems were serious about this, they would have invited the Repubs to the table long before AND seriously listen to them.

But no, they packed (and are packing) it full of special interest funds to pals, pet projects, bribes and on and on.

They (the Dems) are not interested in HCR reform that is BEST for the people of country but rather their own personal and best interest.

Your OP was the whole reason this thing didn't get past yet. The Republicans couldn't stop anything they tried to get through. It was the Dems that have held this up from the beginning-Thank Gosh.

Matter of fact, it the two Dem reps from my area continue to hold their ground, they may get my vote.

I say lets do what Obama said. VOTE NOW> lets see where it falls. do it.

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 02:23 PM by adifferentbreed

I thought Obama said it was the Rebulicans fault....no it was President Bush's fault....oh hell he has to blame someone, anyone but the Democrats. What a joke, majority all the way around, and he blames the GOP for everything. Ah well, I always wondered who was gonna make Carter not look so bad, I now have my answer.

[edit on 15-3-2010 by adifferentbreed]

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 02:30 PM by sos37

reply to post by adifferentbreed

He did blame all of those, but the accusations failed to stick. So now the media is throwing out the "right wing Democrats" - that's a new one.

And yeah - pressure those folks into voting yes on this horrible piece of legislation - bring the hammer down on them! THAT'S the proper way to do it, right Sestias? It's not about starting over and getting this right - they would rather pass a bill and then have the Senate go back and make changes that appeal to the "left-wing" Democrats after the bill is passed.

Because that's how all vital legislation should be passed.

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 02:41 PM by Sestias

reply to post by sos37

"Starting over and getting it right" is just a sort of code for killing the whole bill.

The Republicans have been invited to the table time after time and just vote against the very things THEY put in the bill.

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 02:52 PM by butcherguy

Originally posted by Sestias
reply to post by sos37

"Starting over and getting it right" is just a sort of code for killing the whole bill.

The Republicans have been invited to the table time after time and just vote against the very things THEY put in the bill.

They were invited once, very recently.
They showed up.
They were berated by the president.
Their ideas have never had a chance in hell of getting into the bill.

Where are you getting your info from?
The Republican party has NO power.
They do have enough votes to filibuster.

How many filibusters have there been in the past year?

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 03:09 PM by Sestias

Originally posted by butcherguy

How many filibusters have there been in the past year?

The Republicans have filibustered just about every single bill that has come up in the Senate in the last year. There is a backlog of more than 250 pieces of legislation that have been stalled because of filibusters.

You must remember the recent case of Senator Bunning, who single-handedly stalled the extension of unemployment benefits to millions for days and days with a filibuster.

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 03:16 PM by Southern Guardian

reply to post by Sestias

There are Republicans in the Democratic party who vote along conservative lines, but are part of the Democratic party for convenience. This is actually where I agree with many fellow ATSers when theres this claim both parties are the same... excepting I'd go so further as to argue both parties consist of mostly corporate conservatives who will vote in line with one another and 'play the part' of the opposition. It was through Democratic and Republican support that the market deregulations of the 90's got through. It was through Democratic and Republican cooperation that Reaganomics was to be implemented during the 80's. The Iraq war was passed by both Republicans and Democrats even though Republicans pushed for it.

Both parties are a mix of the same and sure there are definite differences among some of the politicians on both sides, but the bulk of them are on the same channel with the same agenda. This is why both parties need to be removed from the majority because they have merged into one another over the years. Its a shame.

[edit on 15-3-2010 by Southern Guardian]

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 03:21 PM by adifferentbreed

So basically the SEUI and Moveon are extorting them for not towing the party line........hmmm, extortion, unions and community activists, maybe Obama is really from Chicago, rather than from Kenya.

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 03:22 PM by vor78

In order to win those votes over, some of the largest progressive organizations are now bringing the hammer down. MoveOn.org, whose members endorsed the bill by a vote of 83%-17%, is raising money for primary challenges against any Democrat who votes "no." SEIU is threatening to not only withdraw all support from Democrats who vote "no," but is even suggesting primary challenges, too.

Wait a minute. I thought that only those eeeevvviiillll Republicans were running the moderates out of their own party.

Myself, I think the progressives should go for it. They've blamed everyone else, so its about time they got around to their own party. They know everything, so I'm sure it'll turn out in their favor. One question, though. Are these right-wing Democrats also just racist, uneducated, redneck fools like everyone else who opposes this legislation?

[edit on 15-3-2010 by vor78]

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 03:25 PM by butcherguy

reply to post by Sestias

All the info I can dredge up, numbers wise, points to the staggering rise of the filibuster in the 2007-2008 (110th) Congress. That is with George Bush as POTUS.

How about addressing the point about the republicans coming to the table the one time that they are invited.

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 03:50 PM by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by anon72
Most people are NOT opposed to H.C.R.

And yet any real solution to healthcare reform is opposed by conservatives in anycase. While I will agree this current healthcare reform plan is no longer reform the conservative alternative to the idea of giving tax cuts to solve the healthcare problem is no more reform either. Our problem in this nation stems from the fact that healthcare insurers continue to rise premiums and continue to cut out more people over silly pre-conditions. They are making millions more every year by cutting out people and increasing cost and if no action is taken, they will continue to do so. Tax cuts will not stop premiums from rising, leaving them as is will not stop more americans being cut out from be covered.

So the idea that most conservatives do support real healthcare reform is BS in my eyes. Thus far all Iv seen are excuses as to how we cannot afford any reform, or this idea that leaving these insurance corporations will solve the problem itself. We've had 30 years of leaving the private market to self correct itself and it is gotten worse. We have been falling down the rank for healthcare in the world and its been costing us more by the year.

www.usatoday.com...
www.earthtimes.org...

If the Dems were serious about this, they would have invited the Repubs to the table

That has been happening and most of you fellas know that, although this is a cat and mouse game as I see it. The president was already blamed for being too bipartisan because the party of no simply didnt want to compromise anywhere. As if this current healthcare reform plan was already cut down to the point where conservadems could vote for it and now its nothing resembling reform.

Republicans already refused to attend the healthcare summit when first invited:
voices.washingtonpost.com...

Obama even decided to agree to adding Republican proposals to the healthcare bill but even with that Republicans refused:
www.foxnews.com...

Essentially with Republicans and conservatives its 'our way or the highway' and Im sorry that simply isnt a compromise to the majority.

What about the Republicans own plan that they insist?
online.wsj.com...

Oh yes, throwing more tax cuts at the problem. That will somehow stop the premiums and healthcosts from rising, that will somehow be enough to stop the increasing list of pre-existing conditions that cut out many americans.

They (the Dems) are not interested in HCR reform that is BEST for the people of country

There are many Democrats that have proven they are not interested in real reform, and then there are the rest of the Republicans and conservatives who just prefer to keep their heads in the sand. Because if reform was a real issue to them, it would have been on the table well into the Bush administration, right next to the plans for Iraq and the Bush tax cuts. Although I heard nothing of healthcare reform during those times from the rightwing.

[edit on 15-3-2010 by Southern Guardian]

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 05:02 PM by expat2368

The American people have made it loud and clear they do not want the government sticking its nose in healthcare.

The bill before congress is a disaster waiting to happen and the dumbocrats are threatening to even use unconstitutional tactics to get the abomination passed.

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 05:04 PM by Sestias

Originally posted by butcherguy

How about addressing the point about the republicans coming to the table the one time that they are invited.

The Republicans have been part of the process from its very earliest beginnings. They served on all the committees in which the legislation was drafted. Many Republican ideas are in the present legislation.

The idea of insurance exchanges, for example, is one instance of a Republican idea that was incorporated into the bill. And that's just one example.

This was long, long before Obama held his final health care "summit."

You just wouldn't know this because the Repubs are now disowning what they helped to create. They "just say no" to absolutely everything the Democrats propose. That's their "strategy."

It's an out-and-out lie that their ideas have not been heard. They just won't settle for anything short of having EVERY SINGLE THING in the bill just the way they want it. In other words, no compromise. None. Nada.

[edit on 15-3-2010 by Sestias]

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 05:09 PM by VintageEnvy

Originally posted by expat2368
The American people have made it loud and clear they do not want the government sticking its nose in healthcare.

The bill before congress is a disaster waiting to happen and the dumbocrats are threatening to even use unconstitutional tactics to get the abomination passed.

No, the American people have made is loud and clear that they do not understand whats really in the bill and are going off what they've seen in the media. Honestly, that's where most people have gotten their information and a lot of it is scare mongering and such.

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 05:17 PM by tallcool1

The part in the OP that threw me was "democratic right-wingers". Personally, I can't even name a republican right-winger anymore let alone a democrat right-winger. The majority of both republicans and democrats are now the so called "Progressives" - so far to the left that there is little to no thought of a citizen actually deciding something for themselves. They all want a huge government in control of everything. "Right-wingers" used to be for small government. They are all so far left of center now that someone who was an actual centrist would seem like an anarchist to them. Keep in mind, extreme left = totalitarianism while extreme right = anarchy.

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 05:40 PM by Sestias

reply to post by butcherguy

Can you provide some sources and statistics to prove that the filibuster rose ENORMOUSLY during the Bush administration?

The Democrats used the filibuster a few times then.

But the Republicans now are filibustering every single piece of legislation proposed by the Democrats, no matter how large or small the issue is. This kind of abuse of the filibuster has never happened before in Congressional history.

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 05:54 PM by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by expat2368
The American people have made it loud and clear they do not want the government sticking its nose in healthcare.

Does that include the public option?
www.surveyusa.com...
www.washingtonpost.com...

Are the american people loud and clear on removing medicare? Because if Tea party folk themselves want their medicare left alone:
www.weeklystandard.com...

How can you argue otherwise?

What about your own conservative representitives who recieved healthcare for free under the government? Why doesnt Ron Paul advocate to private healthcare for politicians like himself? Why doesnt Bachmann and the rest of the Republicans remove this socialist healthcare system they themselves had been using for years?

What about the millions spent by the government a year through funding of drug research which for the most part is passed through to patients? What about the millions spent by the government to fund scholarships to 1000's of new doctors? Who eventually bring their expertise to people like you?
www.msnbc.msn.com...

You see when folks, in particular on the right, argue against government involved in healthcare, most of them dont know what the hell their talking about and its all thanks to the rightwing talking heads.

One poll question indicative of how difficult it is to gain public understanding on a complicated issue asked if respondents thought the government should ‘stay out of Medicare,’ something inherently impossible. 39% said yes.

tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...

39% of Republicans agree that government should stay out of medicare? Really?

Its pure ignorance. It was fine to have the government in your business, in your healthcare before a liberal came into power. Now its just inconvenient.

The bill before congress is a disaster

This bill is in no way real reform, but the actions of the rightwing have proven no better in solving the issue.

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 06:06 PM by Doctor G

I am SSOOO in favor of Health Care Reform. I think it is a great idea. Congress does not do reform, they do same-o-same-o.

online.wsj.com...
"There is an atmosphere at FDA in which the honest employee fears the dishonest employee," according to the letter, addressed to John Podesta, head of Mr. Obama's transition team.

The letter will likely increase pressure on Tom Daschle, Mr. Obama's choice to head the Department of Health and Human Services, to make sweeping changes at the agency.

Nothing changes.

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 07:16 PM by Office 4256

Originally posted by anon72
Most people are NOT opposed to H.C.R. They ARE opposed to the way the Dems are doing it and more so about what is in it.

If the Dems were serious about this, they would have invited the Repubs to the table long before AND seriously listen to them.

But no, they packed (and are packing) it full of special interest funds to pals, pet projects, bribes and on and on.

They (the Dems) are not interested in HCR reform that is BEST for the people of country but rather their own personal and best interest.

Your OP was the whole reason this thing didn't get past yet. The Republicans couldn't stop anything they tried to get through. It was the Dems that have held this up from the beginning-Thank Gosh.

Matter of fact, it the two Dem reps from my area continue to hold their ground, they may get my vote.

I say lets do what Obama said. VOTE NOW> lets see where it falls. do it.

Most Dems don't know what's in the bill either. They just want something to vote on. Is this responsible government? Yes, there needs to be HCR before we all go broke, but this pile of caca doesn't address that problem. The left doesn't know much about the real economy, only the economic theories of leftist economists who have never actually participated in the economy other than being consumers. Let's start over; address the problems we can fix NOW (portability, pre-existing conditions), then try to determine how to cover the 20 - 30 million who don't have health insurance. These anecdotal stories of some one dying without insurance is a real tear-jerker, but they don't address the damage done to 220 million Americans who have insurance coverage now who will be screwed over by this cobbled together feces. I will do anything I legally can to prevent the government from wrecking the health care system to insure one tenth of the population.

Pages: << 1 2 >> ^^TOP^^