This incident occurred in England, not in the U.S. as you might expect. I am not sure what constitutes protected speech in the U.K.
The threat of terrorist attacks, both domestic and foreign, is a real one in many places around the world. It's no wonder that airport officials are
a little jumpy.
Although twenty years ago a "freedom or die" t-shirt could probably be worn without incident in public, in the U.S. or the U.K., times have
changed.
Interesting that airport officials in England apologized profusely for interfering with the man's free speech.
I wonder if that would hold true in the U.S.
rawstory.com
(visit the link for the full news article)
Man Wearing "Freedom or Die" T-Shirt Stopped at Airport, page 1
privacy
Topic started on 15-3-2010 @ 01:39 PM by Sestias
rawstory.com
Man Wearing "Freedom or Die" T-Shirt Stopped at Airport
rawstory.com
LONDON (AFP) - London's Gatwick Airport has apologised after a man wearing a T-shirt with the slogan "Freedom or Die" was asked to turn it inside-out because it could be threatening, a spokesman said Monday.(visit the link for the full news article)
Lloyd Berks, 38, was stopped by security officers as he headed for a family skiing holiday in Austria, according to media reports.
"When I went through the metal detector, first they told me to take my trainers off, then they took my wallet off me. Then the guy who checked me told me to turn my T-shirt inside out," he said, cited by The Daily Telegraph newspaper.
"He said:
reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 01:45 PM by Pimpish
reply to post by Sestias
Freedom of speech is one of the biggest rights Americans enjoy, despite what you seem to think. My guess would be if this same thing happened in the States, the guy would get a good lawyer (maybe from the ACLU) or 2 and sue the crap out of them, its just a t-shirt, not a bomb.
Sure, they seem to be whittling away at our freedom of speech here, but something as blatant as this would (in my opinion, at least) get people here angry and it just wouldn't fly - pun not intended.
*edit*
Forgot to comment on the actual story. This is absolutely insane, its his right to wear almost any t-shirt, assuming it isn't threating violence. I would imagine if it said something more along the lines of Freedom or I will kill you, then they may have at least some ground to stand on since that threatens violence. In my mind, they can't apologize enough to this guy, keep those apologies coming.
[edit on 15-3-2010 by Pimpish]
Freedom of speech is one of the biggest rights Americans enjoy, despite what you seem to think. My guess would be if this same thing happened in the States, the guy would get a good lawyer (maybe from the ACLU) or 2 and sue the crap out of them, its just a t-shirt, not a bomb.
Sure, they seem to be whittling away at our freedom of speech here, but something as blatant as this would (in my opinion, at least) get people here angry and it just wouldn't fly - pun not intended.
*edit*
Forgot to comment on the actual story. This is absolutely insane, its his right to wear almost any t-shirt, assuming it isn't threating violence. I would imagine if it said something more along the lines of Freedom or I will kill you, then they may have at least some ground to stand on since that threatens violence. In my mind, they can't apologize enough to this guy, keep those apologies coming.
[edit on 15-3-2010 by Pimpish]
reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 02:09 PM by Pimpish
reply to post by pieman
He has every right to be rude, at least here in America, and I thought it was the same over there as far as freedom of speech. Sure, it may be rude, but it is also his right. I'm not calling him a nice guy, I don't even know him, and that should not factor in at any rate, he has a right to wear that shirt, period.
There are groups such as the KKK here, and though they are widely hated by most people, they still have the right to say what they want and hold rallies or whatever else they want to do within the law. I despise these people and wish they would disappear off the face of the earth, but I would be willing to fight for their freedom of speech just the same as anyone else. It's not about liking what you hear, its about being able to say what you want - and everyone should have that right whether or not you agree with the message or the messenger.
He has every right to be rude, at least here in America, and I thought it was the same over there as far as freedom of speech. Sure, it may be rude, but it is also his right. I'm not calling him a nice guy, I don't even know him, and that should not factor in at any rate, he has a right to wear that shirt, period.
There are groups such as the KKK here, and though they are widely hated by most people, they still have the right to say what they want and hold rallies or whatever else they want to do within the law. I despise these people and wish they would disappear off the face of the earth, but I would be willing to fight for their freedom of speech just the same as anyone else. It's not about liking what you hear, its about being able to say what you want - and everyone should have that right whether or not you agree with the message or the messenger.
reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 02:30 PM by Pimpish
reply to post by pieman
You're telling me wearing a t-shirt that says freedom or die is the same as shouting fire in a crowded cinema? The t-shirt is not even threatning. Who would be against freedom except for the people who are trying to take it away? That's hard to even believe that you're making that comparison.
Who panicked? The only one who had any issue was the security guard. The higher-ups in the airport even said it was wrong.
I guess pretty soon if you want to get on a plane you'll have to wear an all white t-shirt and blue jeans.
You're telling me wearing a t-shirt that says freedom or die is the same as shouting fire in a crowded cinema? The t-shirt is not even threatning. Who would be against freedom except for the people who are trying to take it away? That's hard to even believe that you're making that comparison.
Who panicked? The only one who had any issue was the security guard. The higher-ups in the airport even said it was wrong.
I guess pretty soon if you want to get on a plane you'll have to wear an all white t-shirt and blue jeans.
reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 02:36 PM by Sestias
Originally posted by Pimpish
reply to post by pieman
You're telling me wearing a t-shirt that says freedom or die is the same as shouting fire in a crowded cinema? The t-shirt is not even threatening.
I basically agree with you, but to play devil's advocate for a minute, it's the "or die" part of the message that could be taken as intimidating.
Who dies? The wearer of the shirt (maybe taking other people out with him) or someone who threatens the wearer's freedom?
I wouldn't stop someone from wearing the shirt, just saying.
reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 02:47 PM by Pimpish
reply to post by Sestias
I can see your point, but at the same time it is just a t-shirt. He's already going through all the rest of the security as anyone else, in fact, more than most. The whole thing seems silly to me, they already knew he didn't have any weaponry. What is he going to take, take the shirt off and choke people with it?
I can see your point, but at the same time it is just a t-shirt. He's already going through all the rest of the security as anyone else, in fact, more than most. The whole thing seems silly to me, they already knew he didn't have any weaponry. What is he going to take, take the shirt off and choke people with it?
reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 03:08 PM by Pimpish
reply to post by pieman
Well, the airline said it was wrong and apologized profusely for it, so I'm not sure where you are going with that one. It was just this one security guard who apparently was overzealous in his job. The airline had/has absolutely no problem with the shirt and are fine with him wearing it on the plane.
If someone is afraid of a t-shirt that someone is wearing after he has already thouroughly been screen by security, then its that persons problem and not the person wearing the shirt. Taking away my freedom because someone else can't handle it is not the way to go, you will always have reasons to take things away if that is the tact that you're going to take.
Following that reasoning, almost everything will be unacceptable because chances are there is someone out there afraid of it.
Furthermore, a public airport is not a private business. The airlines are private, sure, but the airport is not. Could the airline have refused to serve him? Sure. But as is already established, they had no problem with the shirt. They have no right to tell him what he is allowed to wear in a public airport.
the airline and the airport authority have a responsibility to all their passengers/customers.
Well, the airline said it was wrong and apologized profusely for it, so I'm not sure where you are going with that one. It was just this one security guard who apparently was overzealous in his job. The airline had/has absolutely no problem with the shirt and are fine with him wearing it on the plane.
If someone is afraid of a t-shirt that someone is wearing after he has already thouroughly been screen by security, then its that persons problem and not the person wearing the shirt. Taking away my freedom because someone else can't handle it is not the way to go, you will always have reasons to take things away if that is the tact that you're going to take.
Following that reasoning, almost everything will be unacceptable because chances are there is someone out there afraid of it.
Furthermore, a public airport is not a private business. The airlines are private, sure, but the airport is not. Could the airline have refused to serve him? Sure. But as is already established, they had no problem with the shirt. They have no right to tell him what he is allowed to wear in a public airport.
reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 03:24 PM by pieman
reply to post by Pimpish
gatwick airport is owned by an investment fund called global infrastructure partners so, yeah, it is a private business.
where i'm going with it is that while there are an awful lot of people who harp on about their rights there doesn't seem to be nearly as many who live up to the responsibilities our rights compel.
the right to free speech is only a force for good if we all take the responsibility to shut up when the situation demands on board. it's a pity that the men who came up with the concept of free speech just took that as a given.
[edit on 15/3/10 by pieman]
gatwick airport is owned by an investment fund called global infrastructure partners so, yeah, it is a private business.
where i'm going with it is that while there are an awful lot of people who harp on about their rights there doesn't seem to be nearly as many who live up to the responsibilities our rights compel.
the right to free speech is only a force for good if we all take the responsibility to shut up when the situation demands on board. it's a pity that the men who came up with the concept of free speech just took that as a given.
[edit on 15/3/10 by pieman]
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