Arizona Town Bans Religious Meetings in Homes, page 1

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ATS Members have flagged this thread 14 times

Topic started on 15-3-2010 @ 10:48 AM by BlackJackal

The pastor of the seven-member Oasis of Truth Church in Gilbert, AZ was ordered by a cease and desist letter to terminate religious meetings in his home, no matter the size or frequency, based on zoning regulations.

Examiner

Even if you are not a devout Christian, this should make you cringe. This is just another example of how our government, on all levels, is clamping down on the personal rights of everyone.

I found this interesting.

The defense of the ban cites traffic, parking, and building safety concerns, yet doesn’t specifically prevent the likes of Cub Scout Meetings, football or business parties.

I have been unable to locate any documentation supporting the cities side of the story here but, I don't really know what validation they could provide for these apparently hypocritical regulations.

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 11:01 AM by amatrine

Wow .

How strange. Could it have just been a certain home owners organization? Gilbert is the most conservative town in the Phoenix area.

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 11:05 AM by The Wave

Hi!

Insteresting but sadly, it seems to be the way we seem to be heading. Not governing on behalf of the electorate but petty control for control's sake.

Does that mean they can't hold a birthday party?

Peace!

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 11:10 AM by damwel

It's a zoning issue! Where on earth can you just put anything anywhere?Maybe the neighbors don't want their street clogged up with traffic from the church. Where don't they have zoning? Would you want a 24 hour waffle house built next door to you?

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 11:14 AM by mamabeth

reply to post by BlackJackal

This is probably the first step before TPTB start banning
religion everywhere!
Some will party in the streets,while others could be forced
into hiding for practicing their beliefs.
This is definitely a sign of the times we live in!

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 11:16 AM by mikellmikell

It's a real pain if you have 100 different churches that have a few hundred meetings a week. look up Benton harbor MI 49022. 102 churches in a city of less than 10000. great tax deduction

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 11:24 AM by BlackJackal

reply to post by damwel

That is a very good point. I did state in my earlier post that I was unable to find any documentation of the cities side of the story. However, it seems that the city is being unreasonable and acted preemptively on this situation.

Although no complaints were cited, the termination order was a response to signs about the meetings near Sutherland’s home.

According to this article no one was complaining about these meetings, yet they were still terminated. The other issue here is that the city allows other meetings to take place without any issue.

I would really like to know the reasoning for the cities action on this matter. IMO, knowing the other side would go along way in making a final judgement on this matter.

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 11:27 AM by rogerstigers

hmm.. It's not a Christian issue. If I wanted to hold an Imbolc or Samhain celebration, they could theoretically stop that too.. course I am not in AZ, so nevermind that.

What's with Az lately anyway? Are they the test bed for conversion of the US? So much crazy stuff coming out there.

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 11:28 AM by Alethea

Meetings should be held in the church building. That's what they were built for. And many congregations that are small have been known to 'share space' with a larger church building, or renting out a sunday school classroom for their meetings.

It's not like anyone is taking away freedom of religion.

Churches usually have required parking lots. Neighborhood streets do not. I have seen neighborhoods where there are weekly gatherings with cars parked in front of neighbors houses along the street. It is an imposition and a hazard.

Churches are a corporate business and as such should confine their membership activities to a more accomodating space with a parking lot.

Christians should practice good citizenship and respect for the rights of others in a private neighborhood by not cluttering the streets on a weekly basis.

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 11:34 AM by kozmo

reply to post by damwel

[INSULT REMOVED BY STAFF]

A zoning issue??? Having 7 or 8 people visit MY PRIVATE RESIDENCE is now a zoning issue??? What business is it what we're doing in MY PRIVATE RESIDENCE? I reserve the right to peaceably assemble ANYWHERE, especially in my own home. What happens if I decide to host saturday football parties every week at my own and invite 20 people? They certainly have no right to restrict LAWFUL assemblies of person is my private residence. Anyobdy who supports these restrictions should NEVER be suprised when it is THEIR freddoms that are evenutally restricted. I'm just sayin...

Insult removed, and member warned.

[edit on 3-15-2010 by SkepticOverlord]

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 11:34 AM by SunIsSon

No neighborhood deserves to be cluttered by the traffic that this would cause. Even worst, the congestion of a mass of cult members with their narrow minded, arrogant, egotistical smug attitudes.

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 11:43 AM by freedomataprice

reply to post by kozmo

I was just going to say that!
We use to have movie nights in our home and there was never anything less than 20 people there. We did this weekly and lived in a very ritzy golf resort. These movie night went all night and in the morning you would find people crashed out everywhere.
No one ever complained. I have the right to have a get together, it can be for movies, a bible study(would never happen), or a swingers party. It could be anything. I am just glad I live way in the boondocks now, a lot more parking space.

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 11:43 AM by kozmo

Originally posted by SunIsSon
No neighborhood deserves to be cluttered by the traffic that this would cause. Even worst, the congestion of a mass of cult members with their narrow minded, arrogant, egotistical smug attitudes.

FREEDOM TO PEACEABLY ASSEMBLE applies universally to EVERYONE! Whether you agree with why they are together or not is completely moot. YOU, nor the government, reserves the right to determine under what circumstances individuals choose to peaceably assemble. If you oppose this right for them, then you oppose it for everyone - including yourself.

People like you are dangerous to the very concept of freedom!

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 11:49 AM by recycled

The pastor of the seven-member Oasis of Truth Church in Gilbert, AZ was ordered by a cease and desist letter to terminate religious meetings in his home, no matter the size or frequency, based on zoning regulations.

If they are restricting the meeting no matter how many people attend then it can not be likened unto building a waffle shop.

www.christianpost.com...

With only seven members, Oasis of Truth Church was ordered to stop holding all activities, including Bible studies, leadership meetings and fellowship activities, in Pastor Joe Sutherland's home in Gilbert, Ariz.

7 members? 2-3 cars? Don't most driveways lend to ample space for that number of vehicles?

From this article it looks as though the city of San Diego tried the same thing:

bsimmons.wordpress.com... stop-gathering-for-bible-studies-in-a-private-home-because-such-meetings-are-forbidde/

I don't know what is going on, perhaps someone/s looking to cause trouble, fear mongering. Pretty rampant these days.

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 11:59 AM by kozmo

reply to post by recycled

What is going on is a carefully crafted and systematic campaign to restrict the practice of religion - anywhere that is not legally sanctioned by the powers that be. This is an abomination against the first ammendment and should be vigorously fought by anyone and everyone who believes in individual freedom - whether you are religious or not. Rest assured, once this is permitted, the usual "scope creep" that the tyrannical government employs will find itself restricting one of the freedoms that you hold near and dear.

Learn from history, friends... It happened in Russia under Lenin, in Germany under Hitler and it is happening again. History will repeat itslef whenever and wherever the uninformed permit it.

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 12:00 PM by Redwookieaz

This is a total croc! And against ones Constitutional rights! I wouldn't follow these baseless laws no matter what! Anyone else who says different is either a paid shill or has no idea how freedom works and is thus a danger to freedom everywhere. I hope to God they continue to do as they please!

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 12:15 PM by recycled

reply to post by kozmo

I agree if folks sit around and let their rights be taken, then they will be taken. It just as simple as that. If this type of situation were happening in my area you can bet I would be taking necessary measures to stop it from continuing.

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 12:28 PM by nixie_nox

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 12:32 PM by kozmo

reply to post by nixie_nox

Nice hasty generalization! And in 1 sentence you were also able to package it with a red herring, non-sequitur and a straw man!

It is appearing that people who also hate religion (See above), also hate freedom. This country is screwed by the ignorant masses.

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 12:35 PM by seagull

Seems to me, on the surface anyhow, to be enforceable but once...

After that, it goes to court, and the unconstitutionality becomes glaringly obvious...

Just out of rhetorical curiosity...where's the ACLU? Civil Liberties are being infringed upon...

Yooohoooo..., ACLU, where are you?

[edit on 3/15/2010 by seagull]

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