Is God limited?, page 1

Is God limited?, page 1

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ATS Members have flagged this thread 1 times

Topic started on 15-3-2010 @ 10:14 AM by Donnie Darko

I personally think so. Here's why: God, by definition, can not do EVERYTHING. God can not create a being more powerful than God, God can not make a circle square, God can apparently not prevent suffering from existing.

If God was truly perfect, why would prayer have any sort of effect? That is my explanation of the Problem of Evil - God simply isn't omniscient.

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 10:20 AM by trueperspective

hhhmm...alot of threads about suffering and God today. Well, I think the first problem is that you are confussing "can't" with "won't". God will cancel all evil, but not yet. He first is waiting for all the people that will to accept salvation, because once this world is over their will be no more chance. In that day everybody that will live forever will be determined. So yeah evil is here, but so is salvation...for a short time.

[edit on 15-3-2010 by trueperspective]

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 10:32 AM by SunIsSon

The authors whom fabricated the whole assumption of "God" that folks read in their bibles and other books are long extinct. Therefore, we are unable to ask them specific questions on their mythical creation of this divine figure. I think it is safe to argue that these ridiculous ancient books are completely inaccurate in its description of the true God if one DOES exist at all.

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 10:33 AM by wylekat

Ah yes... God will cancel all evil- after countless lives are ruined, a lot of them by his own people. And what happens to those ruined lives? Off the the eternal BBQ with ya!

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 10:36 AM by Solasis

Some theologians say that God is only limited by what is logically possible; he cannot make a square circle, or a rock so heavy he cannot move it, etc. Sometimes they use this as a weapon against the Problem of Evil; it is logically impossible for God to limit free will such that it would cancel all evil. I took a class on this last semester, and can't quite remember the argument... if it hasn't been made better later, I'll pull out my Philosophy of Religion book and find out

(I'm an atheist by the way, I just love this topic.)

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 10:38 AM by Maddogkull

When someone says "God" are they always referring to a Christian god, or just a creator who created everything? I wouldn’t call "God" but rather "Creator". "God" has to many human characteristics. When someone thinks god they think of a guy with a white beard on a cloud. Who says "God" isn’t like the essence of life, itself? Maybe we are in one giant neuron, who knows.

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 10:39 AM by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

reply to post by Donnie Darko

Speaking purely from speculation. Why makes rules you don't intend to honor?

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 10:40 AM by trueperspective

Originally posted by SunIsSon
The authors whom fabricated the whole assumption of "God" that folks read in their bibles and other books are long extinct. Therefore, we are unable to ask them specific questions on their mythical creation of this divine figure. I think it is safe to argue that these ridiculous ancient books are completely inaccurate in its description of the true God if one DOES exist at all.

Do you think "God" that could create 100 billion qalaxies is so stupid and inempt as to not be able to write a book????..... Yeah you're right, God wants to be known, but He's to stupid to figure out how.

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 10:43 AM by trueperspective

Originally posted by wylekat
Ah yes... God will cancel all evil- after countless lives are ruined, a lot of them by his own people. And what happens to those ruined lives? Off the the eternal BBQ with ya!

Are you assuming that a ruined life is a damned life?? I know alot of people that have lived in luxury on this earth that will not enjoy eternal rest and vice versa. Actually, I would say that the harder your life is the more likely you will realize that this life is termporal and corrupt.

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 10:50 AM by December_Rain

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
I personally think so. Here's why: God, by definition, can not do EVERYTHING. God can not create a being more powerful than God, God can not make a circle square, God can apparently not prevent suffering from existing.

If God was truly perfect, why would prayer have any sort of effect? That is my explanation of the Problem of Evil - God simply isn't omniscient.

Depends keeping in mind which religion are you basing your perspective on. In Hinduism there are many tales of several God's coming together and creating another powerful God to slay the evil.

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 10:57 AM by wylekat

reply to post by trueperspective

Are you assuming that a ruined life is a damned life??

Well, according to the Bible, all of us who have had it up to 'here' with god, and what's happened to us, who refuse this deity thanks to the works of his people, are pretty much screwed. And that's exactly what the church teaches. I quit the goose chase after a very long line of nastiness that has basically destroyed me, ruined my life, and has left me pretty much screwed anyways. I rejected god, the bible and jesus, and that's where I'm gonna stay. No God, Buddha, Allah, Great Spaghetti Monster, or anyone else. If a deity wanted me to love and worship, then a little less torture and a little more love shoulda been in order. The confusion surrounding ANY religion has been.... frightening.

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 11:44 AM by SunIsSon

reply to post by trueperspective

What are you attempting to question in regards to my reply? I cannot derive enough sense from your reply to make an appropriate response in return. What is it that you are trying to ask?

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 11:47 AM by Daniem

reply to post by Donnie Darko

God, by definition, can not do EVERYTHING

What definition?

The gods and godesses I have heard of are usually immortal, and are commonly assumed to have personalities and to possess consciousness, intellects, desires, and emotions similar to those of humans.

Notable deities include Tsui Goab, Mangar-kunjer-kunja, Vishnu, Yuanshi Tianzun, Ra, Zeus, Ahura Mazda, Vesta, Odin, Yahweh, Quetzalcoatl, Ika Omkara, John Frum. Are they limited?

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 11:51 AM by LeoVirgo

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
I personally think so. Here's why: God, by definition, can not do EVERYTHING. God can not create a being more powerful than God, God can not make a circle square, God can apparently not prevent suffering from existing.

If God was truly perfect, why would prayer have any sort of effect? That is my explanation of the Problem of Evil - God simply isn't omniscient.

Being Omniscient means 'knowing all things'.

Who is to say that there is not a reason for the world being the way it is. Suffering is a part of this experience and its really a blink of the eye in time and eternity.

Obviously this world is based on the law of cycles, orders, and cause and effect. Why should God intervene in it...if Thee intended it to be this way?

But you are right...God is limited...to perfection.

Prayer is more a therapeutic practice for humans. It allows them to hold hope. I find it a iffy path because if I am praying for change...then I am making the assumption that life is not going as God had planned....that there must of been a mistake.

I pray for strength to accept the things I cant change and give me courage to change the things I can change myself. The change I might be in need of most likely lies within my own self and my perspective.

We all ache for suffering to cease....but it teaching us things. It makes us be more observant. It gives us to weigh the worth of peace and contentment.

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 11:54 AM by LeoVirgo

reply to post by wylekat

That is the mistake right there...

Religions mixed love with worship.

God is not a dictator.

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 11:57 AM by LeoVirgo

reply to post by trueperspective

Its not that God couldn't write a book...its that Thee already did.

Its called the book of life and it can only be read with a humble heart.

Gods book is not a material object that can be destroyed or tainted. Gods book holds the true word, in life itself.

Does my signature make any sense?

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 01:28 PM by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
I personally think so. Here's why: God, by definition, can not do EVERYTHING. God can not create a being more powerful than God, God can not make a circle square, God can apparently not prevent suffering from existing.

If God was truly perfect, why would prayer have any sort of effect? That is my explanation of the Problem of Evil - God simply isn't omniscient.

Yes, He is "limited", by some things you mentioned that He is limited by actually attest to His deity. He cannot sin, cannot lie, etc...

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 02:43 PM by Gazrok

Is God limited?

Interesting question, but then, you'd have to define limits (and in doing so, you just created them)...

I personally think so. Here's why: God, by definition, can not do EVERYTHING. God can not create a being more powerful than God

And you know this how? Maybe he can, and doesn't WANT to?

God can not make a circle square

Why not? Certainly no difficult feat after creating the Universe, if you ascribe to it...

God can apparently not prevent suffering from existing.

Says who? Maybe he simply doesn't CARE TO prevent it? After all, that book is filled with instances of him CAUSING it...

If God was truly perfect, why would prayer have any sort of effect? That is my explanation of the Problem of Evil - God simply isn't omniscient

Perfect by who's standard? Maybe the prayer solution is perfect for him.

You see, that's where this all falls apart...you can't have a "perfect" religion, with a "one size fits all" deity, and expect it to explain everything. All we can really do is try and leave what we believe to be a good life, and either we're all worm food when it's all over, or, if there is an afterlife, that simply trying to be a good person is good enough for the guy or guys/gals in charge, whether they be Jesus, God, Yahweh, Allah, Buddha, etc. And if it isn't good enough for them, well to Hell with it..(and me too, apparently)...

reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 11:04 PM by junglejake

reply to post by Donnie Darko

The suppositions are absurd. God cannot create a being more powerful than Himself. Why would He do that? We combine a few clever quips and platitudes and think ourselves clever. Do or do not, there is no try, to quote Yoda. There is no try? How do you know if you can do something if you don't try? Yet time and again this "wise" saying is quoted.

The legitimate statement, regarding suffering, has a response as well. As C.S. Lewis puts it, many say, "If God is good, He would want to make His children completely happy, and if God is almighty, He can do this." Yet He doesn't. If this is a legitimate question for you, I highly, highly, highly recommend the book The Problem of Pain.

Essentially, the question is raised, do you want free will or the inability to suffer? God wants us to love Him. However, if He makes us incapable of not loving Him, is it really love, or slavery? If we can choose, though, that means we can choose not to love Him and to go against Him. If He wants us to be joyful, and we choose to go against Him, an aspect of that is going to involve bringing not-joy, or suffering, to others and maybe ourselves. Could He make it otherwise? I don't see why not. However, He chose to allow us to love instead of being robots.

reply posted on 16-3-2010 @ 09:52 AM by Gazrok

God cannot create a being more powerful than Himself. Why would He do that?

See, now it's absurd to assume we, as mere human mortals could understand the will of a god...

Let's look at a scaled down example in the movies...Man creates Terminators, beings more powerful than himself, that then proceed to exterminate him. Looking back, one could ask, "Why?", but the simple answer is that it seemed like a good idea at the time...

As for Lewis' statement, what if God is almighty and vain? or almighty, and enjoys the entertainment his toys provide? So many possibilities here....

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