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Ordo Templi Orientis

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posted on Jun, 13 2004 @ 08:21 PM
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Originally posted by TgSoe
Did the Serpent dictate to Crowley the Book Of The Law?


Hehehe. According to the Comment, anyone who discusses the contents of Liber AL are “centres of pestilence”...but what the hell, I’m not well-known for following rules anyway, lol.

The symbolism of AL is extremely archaic, poetic, and bizarre. The secomd chapter was dictated by Hadit, the Egyptian deity symbolized by a Winged Globe, who partakes of the Nature of the Supernal Sephiroth in the Qabalah. In the verse you quoted, Hadit identifies himself with a “snake” and a “serpent”, i.e., the kundalini force, which is the Magickal Force in man. In occult symbolism, all references to snakes, serpents, devils, beasts, etc., refer to this Force in its unpurified, latent state. For further elaboration, see Crowley’s “The Book of the Heart Girt With A Serpent”.
Also keep in mind that the Serpent was the symbol of Royalty to the Egyptians.





In III,11 it says- " Worship me with fire and blood; worship me with swords & spears. Let the woman be girt with a sword before me: let blood flow to my name. Trample down the heathen; be upon them, O warrior, I will give you of thier flesh to eat! III, 12 Sacrifice cattle, little and big:after a child."


This verse is followed by: “Ye shall see that hour, O blessed Beast...ye shall be sad thereof”, and is connected to another verse in AL III, which says, “I will slay me her child”. Crowley wrote in his original commentary that he had no idea what it meant, but in his second commentary written a decade later, he wrote that it was a prophecy concerning the death of his infant son by his first wife Rose, from pneumonia.
The part about the woman being girt with a sword and “blood flowing to my name” concerns an esoteric formula of tantric sex magic. It is not advisable to go into too much detail, as this technique may be dangerous to beginners, but suffice it to say that the “sword” is the Phallus, and “blood” refers to semen, which, according to Gnostic doctrine, contains the Logos in the spermatozoan, the potential for “the Word to be made flesh”, i.e., through conception. In a nutshell, the verse conceals the mystery of creation.



How about this one? - III,43 Let the scarlet woman beware! If pity and compassion and tendeness visit her heart; if she leave my work to toy with old sweetness; then shall my vengence be known. I will slay me her child : I will alienate her heart: I will cast her out from men: as a shrinking and despised harlot shall she crawl through dusk wet streets, and die cold and an-hungered. III,44 But let her raise herself in pride! Let her follow me in my way! Let her work the work of wickedness! Let her kill her heart! Let her be loud and adulterous! Let her be covered with Jewels, and rich garments, and let her be shameless before all men!"


Crowley connected this verse with the previous one mentioned, concerning the death of his child, and the mental problems of his first wife. For more details, see Crowley’s commentaries on Liber AL, published under the title “The Law Is For All.”


Anyhow thats some deep stuff, it doesn't seem to me like something that a man made just made up. Who is the scarlet woman by the way?


In Crowley’s cosmology, the “Beast” and “Scarlet Woman” are alternative titles for Shakti and Shiva, the male and female generative forces in Nature. In ancient Hindu iconography, the Goddess Shakti is shown astride Shiva in sexual copulation, while Shiva sits cross-legged in the full lotus position. Sexual intercourse in this position is described in the Kama Sutra as kundalini Yoga.
In the Microcosm, the “Scarlet Woman” is whomever one’s female partner is. In Liber AL, it generally refers to Rose Crowley.

For a photo of Aleister, Rose, and their daughter, see:

www.rosslyn.org...

Fiat Lvx.


[edit on 13-6-2004 by Masonic Light]




posted on Jun, 13 2004 @ 08:29 PM
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I've got to say, that is one darn cute photo


I'm not a fan of AC's work, but any fella who lifts his little daughter up on his shoulders, and gives the camera that "what can you do, she wanted up?" look can't be all bad in my book.

There - my totally fatuous two cents.



posted on Jun, 13 2004 @ 08:37 PM
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Originally posted by AlexKennedy
There - my totally fatuous two cents.


In these less than inflationary times, and the added hindrance of Canadian currency devaluation that's not much AK, I see that you stand here divested, and totally destitute, perhaps the Brethren could make an offering? Hope this wasn't fatuous.



posted on Jun, 14 2004 @ 12:39 PM
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What is that all about? How did you know what I was using?



posted on Jun, 14 2004 @ 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by miltie
What is that all about? How did you know what I was using?


You have entered an area of observation, and identification, those that show interest in such matters must be known to those that watch. The plan is place, wheels will turn, and that which shall come, shall come, like a thief in the night... just kidding.



[edit on 14/6/2004 by Mirthful Me]



posted on Jun, 14 2004 @ 12:55 PM
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you freaked me out there for a second



posted on Jun, 17 2004 @ 03:21 PM
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i hear the o.t.o are satanists which are connected to the masons.



posted on Jun, 17 2004 @ 03:25 PM
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TSAB, *sigh*, I hear the wolrd is flat. Really. And the moon is made of cheese...yep.
Since you insist of posting this junk, mind telling us where you heard it?



posted on Jun, 20 2004 @ 05:29 AM
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Greeting Bro. MasonicLight,
I have been admiring your informative posts on this thread - very impressive... May I ask if you are still a Thelemite?

Regards,
Bro. Daniel Brown



posted on Jun, 20 2004 @ 05:34 AM
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Originally posted by Decretal
Greeting Bro. MasonicLight,
I have been admiring your informative posts on this thread - very impressive... May I ask if you are still a Thelemite?

Regards,
Bro. Daniel Brown


And are you still a liar.

Stupid question really...........



posted on Jun, 20 2004 @ 06:00 AM
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Originally posted by Leveller
And are you still a liar.

Stupid question really...........


Leveller, either stop stalking me or keep it in the 'Are we brothers with five?' arena.

I do not wish for this thread to get off topic.

Regards,
Bro. Daniel Brown



posted on Jun, 20 2004 @ 06:51 AM
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You have no moderation powers here and therefore no right to offer me advice or orders.

I'll do a deal. You give up the lying and the pantomime act and I'll not need to expose you as a liar.



posted on Jun, 20 2004 @ 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by Decretal
May I ask if you are still a Thelemite?


No, I was never actually a Thelemite. I think Crowley’s work is interesting, but I’ve never been particularly impressed with the “fruits of Thelema”, i.e., Jack Parsons, Charles Stansfeld Jones, Wilfred Talbot Smith, etc.
I am, however, a Qabalist, and am interested in AC’s (or perhaps Aiwass’) application of Qabalistic knowledge to ancient Egyptian symbolism. But I personally prefer to work in the Qabalistic tradition of Brother Paul Foster Case, as is outlined in the curriculum of Builders of the Adytum, as well as the “orthodox” methods of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn.
I suppose I’m much more of a Unitarian, Taoist, or Buddhist, than a Thelemite.

Fiat Lvx.



posted on Jun, 20 2004 @ 04:00 PM
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Does Crowley have any surviving children today who followed in his footsteps? I saw a website once who had someone named Crowley but I didn't know if they were related. Also that little girl didn't she die of some fever while Crowley was away on a trip.



posted on Jun, 20 2004 @ 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by TgSoe
Does Crowley have any surviving children today who followed in his footsteps? I saw a website once who had someone named Crowley but I didn't know if they were related. Also that little girl didn't she die of some fever while Crowley was away on a trip.



To my knowledge, Crowley has no children who are currently living, but several of his grandchildren are still alive, although they are now elderly.

The child who died of pneumonia while Crowley was in Burma studying Buddhism is not the same daughter as the one in the photo. The one in the picture survived to adulthood. The one who died was still an infant, and Crowley came to believe this was the fulfillment of the prophecy given in Liber AL that you commented on above.

As an aside, there was recently a clock that belonged to Crowley advertised on E-bay. Near the end of his life, he rented a room at a bed and breakfast in Hastings, where he eventually died. The woman who owned the establishment was the guardian of her young, orphaned nephew who lived with them, and it was this nephew, now a senior citizen, who posted the clock on E-bay.
The gentleman said his memories of Crowley were of a simple old man who often helped him with his math and Latin homework. At the time, he had no idea that the old gentleman, who would never take dinner unless properly dressed in a bowtie, was a “world famous wizard”. Crowley had purchased the clock, but later gave it to the boy’s aunt because its loud ticking disturbed him while he was in study.
The nephew posted a photo of Crowley sitting at his desk in his room, with the clock on top, to verify its authenticity, adding that he had inherited from his aunt.

I placed a bid, but alas, was outmaneuvered by a Thelemite, who apparently has more money to waste than myself.


Fiat Lvx.



posted on Jun, 20 2004 @ 09:12 PM
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Masonic Light, although you seem to be deeply informed about secret societies such as the OTO (and I might rely on you for some specific questionning on secret societies in some not too distant future), have you ever considered, in a totally different perspective, seeing Crowley and his works as being terribly schizophrenic??? I mean have you ever looked at it from the "outside" and notice how this guy would just have been a perfect shot for any psychiatric insitute of today?

I mean this guy was convinced that he was the Best of the Apocalypse, he was practicing some extremely twisted sexual acts with other members of his order as well as with initiates in order to gain some , and he officially claimed that he wrote the Al Liber under the strict guidance of a dark supernatural being who spoke to him by telepathy in a codified language, and even saw the being appear out of nowhere (the entity actually looked strangely familiar to a Gray, accroding to Crowley's own drawing). A being from the so-called "invisible world". If this guy was not crazy, it seems to me that it`s a fallen angel that he did business with, a remant of the ones who rebelled against the authority of the God and still roam this world today, hiding from the light, and conspirating to ruin the lifes of many humans. Probably they are the servants of the pontiff of Shambala, who knows? Probably they work for the Ra's Al Ghul... or Lex Luthor, don't know!
But sorry, all of his hermetic knowledge is hardly coherent, and his behaviour, more importantly, if far more the one of an eccentric and disconnected man than of a philosopher who was seeking the Truth. At least he made no ritualistic murders (as far as I know), and this might be where we can draw a line between him and Charles Manson.

Now I have some respect for the mentally ill... and many of paranoid/schizophrenic people achieved great things in their lifes that the ordinary bozo would not have the wit and imagination to. Think of Philip K. Dick, Tchaikovsky and Rimbaud, for instance. The world would be a boring place without those crazy geniuses.

But I think there`s a clear line between admiring a madman for his creations and the originality of what he was, and following a megalomaniac who`s imposing himself as the elected One that knows the secret knowledge of the Universe. As I write this, Alester Crowley`s skeleton is resting well in his grave, testifying that he was nothing but a simple, mortal human, who probably got a little bit too far in his delirium. As for his soul, I'm not the one to judge or even determine where it is now, you guess...



posted on Jun, 20 2004 @ 10:07 PM
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Actually, I think Crowley is one of the most misunderstood people in the history of occultism....or perhaps in the history of anything, lol.

The yellow journalism concerning “abherrant sexual behavior” is, to put it mindly, absurd. Crowley practiced nothing in sexuality that has not been practiced for thousands of years by the Hindu and Buddhist mystics, in the discipline of Kundalini Yoga...the only difference was that Crowley was a bit more...er...”colorful” with the words he used to describe it!

The “entity” that dictated Liber AL was called “Aiwass”. Crowley identified Aiwass with his own Genius, or “Higher Self”, and it is not uncommon for those involved in Magick to come into contact with latent parts of themselves...actually, in a sense, that’s what Magick is all about. Crowley was certainly not the first person to have such an experience, nor will he be the last.

Crowley was not schizophrenic or insane. His writings show a very orderly author, who established an extremely organized system of metaphysics, one which corresponds well with the often difficult disciplines of Qabalah and the intellectual knowledge needed to comprehend the Golden Dawn system. It would be impossible for a schizophrenic to do so.

Understanding Crowley requires an understanding of his life and his views. He was known as a notorious practical joker, but many of his jokes are played at our own expense (i.e., at those who read his books). It is actually his weird but unrelenting sense of humor that I like most about him...most occult writers are boring beyond belief.

As for his personal shortcomings, he had many, but so does everyone. The problem with his detractors is that they want to take everything he said and did seriously, while Crowley took preciously little seriously. He grew up in a strict Puritan family in Victorian England, and saw through that society’s hypocrisy. He rebelled against it, and attempted to expose it. He was labeled a devil by the yellow press, but in reality, his only crime was pointing out the fairly obvious fact that the emperor had no clothes.

He was also aware that even in his later years he carried baggage from his puritanical upbringing (his uncle once caught him masturbating when he was 13....he was beaten senseless, and forced to go without food for 2 weeks in order to “purge” him of his “sin”). In hic commentary to Liber AL and in his autobiography (published until the title “The Confessions of Aleister Crowley”), he wrote that he became withdrawn and unnaturally shy. He then wrote that, in adulthood, “I masked my shyness in eccentricity, and my feelings of inferiority in colossal bravado”.
Crowley did not think he was anything more than a Man. But Crowley didn’t take it as an insult...he celebrated it! In Crowley’s view, Mankind was the pinnacle of Creation, a Miracle. And his assumption of the title of 666 only reinforced this...this number is, after all, the number of Man. He made the official motto of the O.T.O. “Deus est Homo”...which simply means God is Man.

Crowley did not literally believe he was the Beast of the Book of Revelation. But this notoriety helped him spread his ideas. To Crowley, all publicity was good publicity. He simply exchanged the ancient symbolism of Shiva and Shakti with the “Beast” and the “Scarlet Woman”. This was much more an advertising and publicity stunt than schizophrenia.

Fiat Lvx.




[edit on 20-6-2004 by Masonic Light]



posted on Jun, 21 2004 @ 03:08 AM
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masonic how do you find crowleys work interesting if you object it all?



posted on Jun, 21 2004 @ 11:09 AM
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Originally posted by topsecretombomb
masonic how do you find crowleys work interesting if you object it all?


I don’t object to it all. Much of Crowley’s work is extremely useful, and even the useless rhetoric that often colors his books are at least entertaining, if nothing else.

I would suggest to anyone wanting to learn more about him, they read the biography “The Eye In The Triangle: An Interpretation of Aleister Crowley” by Dr. Israel Regardie.
While still an undergraduate student in the 1920’s, Regardie took a job as Crowley’s personal secretary, and moved to Sicily with him. Crowley (along with Regardie and his other Cefalu students) were soon expelled from the country by Mussolini, and relocated to New York.

Regardie worked for Crowley for a couple more years, completing his master’s degree in psychology, and doctorate in psychiatric science. He then parted ways with Crowley, in order to practice Freudian, Jungian, and Reichian psychoanalysis.

After Crowley’s death, John Symmonds published his biography “The Great Beast”. Regardie thought the book was ridiculous, as it did not present the true Aleister Crowley, a man he had known and respected, although had a falling out with. Regardie then wrote “The Eye In The Triangle” to correct Symmonds’ errors, which Regardie believed were made purposely, in order to demonize Crowley, and sell more books by making them scandalous.

Unfortunately, most of the public’s knowledge about Crowley comes from “The Great Beast”. But “The Eye In The Triangle” is much more accurate, according to practically all of Crowley’s former associates.

Fiat Lvx.



posted on Jun, 21 2004 @ 01:19 PM
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As a psychotherapist I can tell you, based on my readings of Crowley, that he is no schizoprhenic nether was Rimbaud.

I am not a fan of Crowley. It may be because growing up in church I was told how evil he was.

I have read his novel "Diary of a Drug Fiend" and really enjoyed it.

One thing that Crowley said that I really liked was "It is every man's duty to take responsiblity for his own actions and to expose his own illusions.

Maybe he's a little manicy but no schizophrenic.

Just my own two cents.

Anyone else to diagnose????

Take it easy...



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