CT scans overuse causes cancers: report, page 1
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 4 times
Topic started on 14-3-2010 @ 04:19 PM by spearhead

CT scans overuse causes cancers: report


au.news.yahoo.com
Senior radiologists have called for doctors to stop the indiscriminate ordering of CT scans, which can cause cancer.

Medical research has found that more than 400 new cases of cancer a year in Australia are attributable to diagnostic radiology. Despite this, the number of computerised tomography scans, which generate far more radiation than X-rays, is growing about 12 per cent a year, Fairfax newspapers say.
(visit the link for the full news article)


reply posted on 14-3-2010 @ 04:50 PM by Maybe...maybe not
reply to post by spearhead



G'day spearhead

On the other hand, you might have not been treated properly & suffered even more, if you had not undergone that imaging.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not



reply posted on 14-3-2010 @ 05:10 PM by jjjtir
reply to post by Maybe...maybe not



Can you give your take on this?

You state repeatedly in your posts that you are also a "Senior" in the radiological imaging industry.

What can you tell about Tony Webber and Richard Mendelson, the 2 who are also "Senior" Radiologists cited in this news release?

You 3 are all from Australia, perhaps you know each other in person.


reply posted on 14-3-2010 @ 05:26 PM by spearhead
reply to post by Aquarius1



this is breaking news... thanks for trying to kill it...

as far as i know this is the first i've heard of specialist coming out and saying, "stop refering people to our scanners, we will give you cancer!"


reply posted on 14-3-2010 @ 05:35 PM by jjjtir
reply to post by spearhead



Here is a news release from CBS, a mainstream media station in the US, about this.

The source is a radiologist from the University of California San Francisco.

From Dec. 14 2009, a few months ago. It details the radiation from CT scans, very powerful I would say.

Cancer from CT Screenings?

Compared to other imaging procedures, the median effective dose delivered through a single CT scan was as high as 74 mammograms or 442 chest x-rays



reply posted on 14-3-2010 @ 05:42 PM by Maybe...maybe not
Originally posted by jjjtir
reply to
post by Maybe...maybe not



Can you give your take on this?
You state repeatedly in your posts that you are also a "Senior" in the radiological imaging industry.
What can you tell about Tony Webber and Richard Mendelson, the 2 who are also "Senior" Radiologists cited in this news release?
You 3 are all from Australia, perhaps you know each other in person.


G'day jjjtir

I am flattered you have sought my opinion!

I'd like to clarify one thing first if I may.....

I don't state I'm a "senior" in the medical industry & specifically medical imaging for purposes of my ego.....

Rather, I state that so people know "where I'm coming from" when I state opinions about things in the medical forum. Otherwise, I feel a sort of "conflict of interest" when I make supportive statements about the medical industry

Regarding the topic of the thread & your question:

Yes....My team & I know those guys.

I will respond in more detail later on, but in the meantime I'll note the following:

This "CT" story is very "old news" & it has been a constant strong discussion point within medical imaging for many years.

I think things have been exaggerated & taken out of context here, to make a good news story.

That is to say.....whilst CT can sometimes be prescribed unnecessarily, I don't believe it is endemic.

There might also be some "medical politics" going on here.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not



reply posted on 14-3-2010 @ 05:52 PM by jjjtir
reply to post by Maybe...maybe not



Well, it may not be endemic as of today.

But if the given growth rate of CT scans is correct , "12 per cent a year", then we can agree it will become soon enough.

I do have a hunch on what medical speciality is driving those demands for CT.

I would say it is Cardiology.

They constantly want more potent resolutions for artery imaging.


reply posted on 14-3-2010 @ 06:16 PM by Maybe...maybe not
Originally posted by jjjtir
reply to
post by Maybe...maybe not


Well, it may not be endemic as of today.
But if the given growth rate of CT scans is correct , "12 per cent a year", then we can agree it will become soon enough.
I do have a hunch on what medical speciality is driving those demands for CT.
I would say it is Cardiology.
They constantly want more potent resolutions for artery imaging.


G'day jjjtir

Hey.....you & I are having some good discussions about all this

Now.....CT cardiology imaging......

Actually, there is very strong argument within the cardiology key-opinion-leader (KOL) community to the effect CT scanning is very problematic for cardiology imaging.

I sit through many hours of formal & informal discussions & presentations pertaining to cardiology imaging & CT imaging is not prevalent.

You also need to consider the radiation dose for specific cardiology imaging is not as high as an overall chest / abdo / back / etc... scan.

However, let's suppose your Dr wants to image your heart in the first instance....

If your Dr suspects you might have a cardiac problem (e.g. cardiac output problems, coronary artery problems, etc...), then what would you prefer.....

A highly invasive cardiac angiography procedure plus potentially complementary invasive imaging procedures such as optical coherence tomography (OCT) or intravascular ultrasound (IVUS) or.....

A very minimally invasive cardiac CT?

It's a complicated area of decision making regarding potential benefit vs potential risk.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not


reply posted on 14-3-2010 @ 07:00 PM by rusethorcain
reply to post by spearhead



Well this certainly is in direct conflict with the republican talking points.

When it was argued in the health care debate healthy women did not need to receive diagnostics testing for breast cancer before age 40, everyone on that side screamed it was more propaganda from the left bashing the best health care system in the world placing woman's lives in jeopardy.

This side protects individual rights to demand whatever tests they (not their doctor) deem are necessary and to have access to whatever new drug on the market whose ad they saw on TV they would like to have prescribed.

The doctor is a middleman for the drug companies. Nothing more.

He is there to make sure what ever drug treatment, or medical testing you want and recommend for yourself doesn't kill you outright and reflect badly on a corrupt and despicable industry, exploiting naivety and illness.

Of course there are good doctors - (and then there are just the good golfers among them) I mean no slight to those upholding their Hippocratic oath and actually dispensing good, wise and sensible health care and testing. We could not live without them.


reply posted on 14-3-2010 @ 07:10 PM by MischeviousElf
Well I just calculated my risk from all CT scnas dental work and other xrays when younger it works out as:

0.067%

From this site
X Ray Risks

I am sure though that having them closer together is of course going to increase any real risk.

Damaged DNA will then be redamaged, then again etc as in my case.

Really people should be made aware of the stats, before going through with them, I remember in detail a very long talk with the anaethesist on the risk of later operations and some were quite high, so why Medical Imaging thinks they dont have to treat patients with the same openness and courtesy is a bit strange to me.

Kind Regards,

Elf


reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 12:23 AM by Maybe...maybe not
reply to post by MischeviousElf



G’day MischeviousElf

Notwithstanding that I will also address your specific questions, here is some info I’ve put together for you…..

Here is a radiation Risk Calculator:

www.xrayrisk.com...

Here is some info regarding the relative sensitivity of certain body tissues to ionising radiation:



Tissue Sensitivity

In general, the radiation sensitivity of a tissue is:

- Proportional to the rate of proliferation of its cells

- Inversely proportional to the degree of cell differentiation

For example, the following tissues and organs are listed from most radiosensitive to least radiosensitive:

- Blood forming organs (most sensitive)

- Reproductive organs

- Skin

- Bone & teeth

- Muscle

- Nervous system (least sensitive)

This also means that a developing embryo is most sensitive to radiation during the early stages of differentiation & an embryo/foetus is more sensitive to radiation exposure in the 1st trimester as compared with 2nd & 3rd trimesters.

web.princeton.edu...


The following is a comparison of the risks of some medical exams and is based on the following information:



Cigarette Smoking:

- 50,000 lung cancer deaths each year per 50 million smokers consuming 20 cigarettes a day, or one death per 7.3 million cigarettes smoked or 1.37 x 10-7 deaths per cigarette

Highway Driving:

- 56,000 deaths each year per 100 million drivers, each covering 10,000 miles or one death per 18 million miles driving, or 5.6 x 10-8 deaths per mile driven

Radiation Induced Fatal Cancer:

- 4% per Sv (100 rem) for exposure to low doses and dose rates

Adapted from information in Radiobiology for the Radiologist, Forth Edition; Eric Hall 1994, J.B. Lippincott Company



www.physics.isu.edu...



Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not



reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 12:27 AM by Maybe...maybe not
reply to post by rusethorcain



G'day rusethorcain

It always upsets me to read a post like that, which unnecessarily & totally derides the extraordinarily hard working men & women in the medical industry.

You know.....

They will probably save your life one day.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not


reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 12:42 AM by Maybe...maybe not
Originally posted by soficrow
S&F
Important news - but just so you know, these kind of 'studies' are done every few years, with the same results and warnings.
Lots out there, BUT PLEASE, DON"T QUIT!
ie
2005: Scientists Say No Level Of Radiation "Safe"
reply to post by Maybe...maybe not


What about MRA? (MRI with gadolinium) ...not invasive, about equal imaging properties.


G'day soficrow

You are correct.....

The medical experts have always stated you should minimise radiation.

That was drilled into me all through my training & my subsequent clinical & commercial work in this area.

Regarding MRA & gadolinium:

MRA is an amazing technology that does not use ionising radiation & does not produce side effects from the magnetic field approach to imaging.

The MRI contrast agent (gadolinium) is a problem for an extremely small percantage of patients who suffer from a poor glomeralur filtration rate (GFR) or in general terms, poor kidney function.

If the low GFR causes the gadolinium to stay in the body too long, it is remotely possible the patient can develop nephrotic systemic fibrosis (NSF)......which can be extremely unpleasant & damaging.

The other symptoms you describe from the x-ray contrast agents (i.e. non-ionic contrast agents) are quite normal. An extremely small number of patients can have extreme reactions to these contrast agents, including death. If a patient with a low GFR is given non-ionic contrast media, it can also cause contrast induced nephropathy (CIN) or in general terms, cause kidney dysfunction.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

[edit on 15-3-2010 by Maybe...maybe not]


reply posted on 15-3-2010 @ 03:33 AM by rusethorcain
reply to post by Maybe...maybe not



Good day maybe maybe not!

Kind regards as well. Always a pleasure.

Did you read the last sentence in that post?

Maybe maybe not
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