The Heros And Frauds of the UFO Movement

I listen to Ufo documentaries of 70s and 80s and compared them against contemporary documentaries and see the standard has dropped dismally.

For starters the interviewers back then were significantly better, coherent and professional in their interview styles so much, and even people back then who are giving replies seem so much more educated showing more free logical thought than I see in todays interviews.

The second thing I notice different is back then Ufology hadn't only mildly be permeated by new age idealogy of pleadians and reptilians, where it spiced up the documentary a bit whereas now its all saturated with that non sense. If you want to see a good example of what im talking about compared this Ufo documentary which is heavy laden with interviews with Project Camelot interviews and you will see what Im talking about first hand.

Good guy- Harley Rutledge. You can take his book Project Identification to the bank. A REAL investigator that produced results that no one else even wants to talk about.

a reply to: CoriSCapnSkip

Hes a vicious debunker on the UFO/Crypto subjects and has an agenda to boot. Hes the polar opposite copy of Steven Greer.

originally posted by: Bloodydagger
a reply to: CoriSCapnSkip

Hes a vicious debunker on the UFO/Crypto subjects and has an agenda to boot. Hes the polar opposite copy of Steven Greer.

Presumably this refers to Joe Nickell as he's the only one I mentioned.

I think David Icke is utterly crazy!

a reply to: joe547

I think hes putting on a show in good fun at times.................At least that is how I view him. I have a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that he believes in what he says.....

just out of curiosity, how do you guys feel about phil Schneider, or andrew basiago?

My personal hunch is Phil Schneider was nuts--paranoid--really believed that stuff up to the point of killing himself in a dissociative episode. Not to say none of that stuff exists. Just that I think he imagined most or all of what he related.

a reply to: CoriSCapnSkip

Well, he did die under odd circumstances not long after he went public with that whole Dulce episode. He did mention that "people were after him". So who knows. Sometimes when you're in too deep, you do get paranoid.

originally posted by: Bloodydagger
a reply to: CoriSCapnSkip

Well, he did die under odd circumstances not long after he went public with that whole Dulce episode. He did mention that "people were after him". So who knows. Sometimes when you're in too deep, you do get paranoid.

Or sometimes people who appear crazy/paranoid really are crazy/paranoid.

Guess which one is more frequently true?

a reply to: JadeStar

I don't think its a coincidence that he died under strange circumstances not long after going public with what he knew about Dulce, among other things.

Unless of course you think its as simple as him committing suicide.

And if someone is after you and making death threats, how calm can you honestly be? At some point, paranoia WILL set in.

I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt until proven wrong. I don't just "assume" things and shoot first and ask questions later. Nor do I judge a book by its cover. I never walked a mile in his shoes, so who I am to judge and say what he is saying is all lies and fabricated nonsense? Who am I to say that he is "crazy and paranoid'? For all we know, what he went public with is the 100% truth and people were really out to get him and making death threats and whatnot. So don't be so quick to judge unless you have the hard evidence to back it up.

a reply to: SaturnFX
Many of the people who really forged the way for in-dept investigations have passed away.. The new crop of investigators in many cases are standing on the shoulders of those who went before... Investigators are always swimming up stream against ridicule and quackery...
Interesting video by David Jacobs on abductions and hybrids..
youtu.be...

originally posted by: 727Sky
a reply to: SaturnFX
Many of the people who really forged the way for in-dept investigations have passed away.. The new crop of investigators in many cases are standing on the shoulders of those who went before... Investigators are always swimming up stream against ridicule and quackery...
Interesting video by David Jacobs on abductions and hybrids..
youtu.be...

I'm just waiting for these supposed "Alien Abductors" to give their abductees something more than stuff which seems ripped out of New Age books from the 1980s.

Even just a little bit of scientific information about the universe we share which is unknown to science but can be verified through observation would go a long way to validating these extraordinary claims.

Instead all we get are fanciful stories about "good guys and bad guys" and "spiritual ascendance" or messages of peace being delivered to these people.

We also don't seem to have many reports of people witnessing these abductions. You know, spouses, daughters, sons missing etc.

At least Betty Hill was shown a "star map" and Travis Walton was missing. Most UFO abduction stories today sound more like things the people who experienced them did in a dream.

originally posted by: Bloodydagger
a reply to: JadeStar

I don't think its a coincidence that he died under strange circumstances not long after going public with what he knew about Dulce, among other things.

Unless of course you think its as simple as him committing suicide.

And if someone is after you and making death threats, how calm can you honestly be? At some point, paranoia WILL set in.

I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt until proven wrong

So your default position is to believe fantastic stories rather than more mundane causes for the same behavior.

Got it.

originally posted by: Bloodydagger
a reply to: JadeStar

I don't think its a coincidence that he died under strange circum For all we know, what he went public with is the 100% truth and people were really out to get him and making death threats and whatnot. So don't be so quick to judge unless you have the hard evidence to back it up.

You have the burden of proof backwards.

a reply to: JadeStar

Nope, my default position is to not automatically "assume". You know what they say, assumptions are the mother of all screw ups.

What people do not seem to really understand in this field is that there is conjecture (largely nonsense) and there is evidence. After that it is up to YOU to decide what you believe, so if you want to follow someone down their own private wabbit hole that is fine as long as you realize that that is what you are doing and that the truth may not be the same for everyone but no one can change reality. If something exists, well then it does. If it does not, well then it does not and this is why I personally love the older research and threads like this one here. www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: bluemooone2

While I agree with pretty much everything you said, I have to take issue with one point...

originally posted by bluemooone2: this is why I personally love the older research and threads like this one here. www.abovetopsecret.com..

I know time on the internet is about 8x "real world" but Isaac's awesome thread is only 12 days old!

All kidding aside, Best to you and yours bluemooone2, and thanks for hanging with us for so long.

The social structure of America has been broken down so much and the quality of education has been broken down so much and the family unit has been broken down so much I couldn't be less surprised that median level Americans can't articulate themselves properly or have no sense of thoughtfulness about the words they use. Everyone sounds rushed and stupid these days and you know what, it's certainly not folks like me who are to blame for it. It's another thing.

originally posted by: AthlonSavage
I listen to Ufo documentaries of 70s and 80s and compared them against contemporary documentaries and see the standard has dropped dismally.

For starters the interviewers back then were significantly better, coherent and professional in their interview styles so much, and even people back then who are giving replies seem so much more educated showing more free logical thought than I see in todays interviews.

The second thing I notice different is back then Ufology hadn't only mildly be permeated by new age idealogy of pleadians and reptilians, where it spiced up the documentary a bit whereas now its all saturated with that non sense. If you want to see a good example of what im talking about compared this Ufo documentary which is heavy laden with interviews with Project Camelot interviews and you will see what Im talking about first hand.

originally posted by: joe547
I think David Icke is utterly crazy!

I wouldn't say that. Check out this thread.

If you look at ufo vids back in 70s/80s you see Law enforcement and Miltary participating in interviews and sharing information on their experiences. That doesnt happen anymore. The reason for that happening i believe is because the new age cult got a great grasp on ufoology and injected it with radical and unproveable ideas. What respectful, sensible body would want to associate itself with radical unproveable ideas?

The efforts of supporting radical views on Ufos/Alien phenomenon will be akin to the public reaction to the war of the worlds radio play, which provided a brief show of what those radical views can do on social harmony, if seemingly given a legitimate stamp of credibility.

The new age injection into Ufology is the reason why discolure will never happen. Their motive is "Money" because the gravy train stops once disclosure is made, so no surprises to me why the new agey ufologists try and keep the paranoia levels high, with singing the same chorus line "Big bad shadow gov is hiding Ufo reality from the public" and populate the numerous reasons for this dark conspiracy stories, Dulce, reptiles etc etc. Ufoology would move forward by leaps and bounds if people simply stopped listening the new agey ufologists and start critically examine the raw data (with spin filtered out) and making their own minds up.