My boss told me I can't visit ATS

Originally posted by Mr.Noman
I'm from GA, so I know that here it is a "right to work" state. If that applies to your state there is not much you can do, but morally if I were you I would find somewhere else to work...

Mr. Norman...you're not the Mr. Norman who taught 8th grade in Louisville, are you? If so, I really didn't mean what I said about your wife.
Anyway, you, like several others are confusing "right to work" state with "employment at will" state. A right to work state is one of the 22 states which passed a law under Section 14b of the Taft-Hartley Act to prohibit 'union" shops or "agency" shops. Under "union shop" rules, employers are obliged to fire any employees who have avoided paying membership dues necessary to maintain membership in the union. A similar arrangement to the “union shop” is the “agency shop,” under which employees must pay the equivalent of union dues, but need not formally join such union.
The proper term for the situation in this thread is "employment at will."

Originally posted by ucalien
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

My suggestion is for you to contact the Labor board in your State. Tell them the details and ask for their recommendations. just remember, if you go on this crusade against the grocery store, you will probably earn a moral victory, but most likely you'll lose your job.

Labor board or Union??? However, I haven't seen none here ask if this guy is married, if he have children, if he have a house, a family to provide... I don't know... I moral crusade right now in this times of economic crisis will be good??? It worth this fight right now?? I mean, he can access ATS or whatever he wants OUTSIDE of his job environment, anytime... And I'm 100% sure that ATS or any member here WON'T pay his bills if he got fired.

Here it's called a Labor Board, they are advocates for the common worker. And sorry to cut off you rant, but I plainly said the person most likely would lose their job by taking on "the man".

reply to post by Misoir


This is the single most important point mentioned by the poster: that this was your own connectivity. If you were using an Internet connection through your employer then a supervisor could have some justification in telling an employee to not use bandwidth for personal use etc (however lame that sounds!)

However - - given your explanation that this was your own private time, your own laptop and your own connectivity, you are fine doing whatever you like as long as you are not displaying inappropriate (ie mature content) to others in the workplace.

However - given the state of emplyment today, your supervisor doesn't exactly sound like the nicest chap... Update resume, find job at company that believes in free speech, find supervisor who is a cool dude.

Originally posted by ucalien
I'm just wondering if ATS or any conspiracist member here, that is claiming he should pick a fight against the enterprise, will pay his bills and put food on his table if his boss fire him up...


[edit on 14-3-2010 by ucalien]

Hello,
I posted something that is aligned with what you said.
Thanks for humbling me, I deserved it.

Originally posted by askbaby
reply to post by Misoir

 

This is the single most important point mentioned by the poster: that this was your own connectivity. If you were using an Internet connection through your employer then a supervisor could have some justification in telling an employee to not use bandwidth for personal use etc (however lame that sounds!)

Completely not true, and a rather dangerous position to put a person in. Your own connectivity within an employers environment is still under the employers control. I challenge you to bring "your own laptop and connectivity" into CISCO, or Sun's offices and see how that fly's.

Originally posted by askbaby
However - - given your explanation that this was your own private time, your own laptop and your own connectivity, you are fine doing whatever you like as long as you are not displaying inappropriate (ie mature content) to others in the workplace.

Who determines "inappropriate" content? In an employers premise, dare I say it would be the employer. All too often people get wrapped up in the idea that what they do is their "right", regardless of the consequence to their place of work. By your logic, if some third party were to view offensive material on that laptop and sue the place of business, then the laptop owner would be responsible?

..Ex

reply to post by v3_exceed


You are right about paid break and lunch time on the employer's premises,
employers can forbid behaviors on their premises, on breaktimes they pay, on lunch time in the work proporty, and even outside the job, if an employee misbehaves with identification (logos, cloths, vehicules)
linking himself to his employer.

But....

On the other hand, if the use of internet became a problem, only since the manager saw one employee surfin on ATS.... and it was not before.

If it is common behavior to surf on the web during breaktime.

Then It begins to look like some kind of discrimination based on political convictions or personnel beliefs.

Usualy, To be fired, based on descrimination is prohibited, regardless the time you have worked for an employer.

Good luck.

have to ask

is a sprint data card just a wifi module or is it a 3g gsm module ?

meaning do you have to connect to "someones network" inorder to get online or do you dial your own internet provider and get online ,

if its your own then its just more or less company policies that can restrict your usage of of the net on their property

meaning if they dont want you to surf porn sites during the lunch brake on their property they have the right to say so,

but it has to be written company rules/polices for it to a valid reason not to ,

reply to post by Misoir


He's obviously a "limit what people are exposed to because we know what's GOOD for them" MORON. I think Glenn Beck (or one of his ilk) recently stated that anyone who investigates conspiracy theories is a terrorist, or some such idiocy.


Tell him to give me a call. He can use the 1-800 line, I'll pay for the ass chewing he's going to get.

In the mean time, I would caution him about invading your privacy while off the clock. Matter of fact, you SHOULD report him, he sounds an overbearing LOSER who thinks he knows it all.

"Bosses" like that make me sick, I've been a "boss/owner" my whole life and would NEVER DREAM of telling someone who works for me what to think.

He's a punk.

ETA: IF you were on their property AND it's written company policy that you aren't allowed to surf the web on your OWN connection (it's not) then he has you. BUT, he has to bust everyone else too.

Springer...

[edit on 3-14-2010 by Springer]

If you were on company property, then you should just do what he says and suck it up. An employer can tell you how to behave while you're on company property, simple as that.

But like I said, if he's not paying you overtime that is owed to you, then you should get a lawyer and consider a lawsuit. Not only because your employer owes you some money, but because your employer is an insufferable prick as well.

You can't always win the fight, but there's always a way to get revenge against the s-o-b you lost it to...

reply to post by v3_exceed


Could you provide a link for what you are saying, because I am not sure if you are 100% correct on that one?

The what if situation regarding CISCO, Sun, etc... isn't too convincing for me.

We still have certain privacy laws that apply to us, even if we are a wage earning employee.

Try telling all of your employees that you are searching their car or they are fired, or that if they weigh too much that they are fired.

I don't think that would fly.

And if I am wrong, please provide a link.

I am not sure that I am 100% on this one, so I would highly appreciate a link.

reply to post by Springer


Spot on correct.

I know that if one signs an employment contract, and an application is an employment contract, and it stipulates certain things on the contract, then there is not much an employee can do if they do not meet the obligations.
Even if that means looking a certain way at work, talking a certain way at work, or working a certain way at work.

But if no such things are stipulated in an employment contract, then I think that privacy laws still apply.

[edit on 3/14/2010 by Josephus23]

[edit on 3/14/2010 by Josephus23]

reply to post by Misoir


Well, being a Florida resident, you should know like I do that it is a Right to Work state.

Meaning, they can terminate your employment, at any time, for any reason.

Whether this is correct, right, incorrect does not matter, the Union does not protect you.

Now, however, there is a distinct lack of knowledge out there about a lot of things.

You, being on your break, are no longer, technically a paid individual.

It is your break, to do with what you will, eat a bologna sandwich, play PSP, visit ATS, as long as you do it where applicable.

My meaning, eat, play PSP in the break room, visit ATS outside off of the property in the laundromat, it is none of his business what you do on your break.

If you're using Wi-Fi make sure it's not Winn Dixie's set up, if you're using a corporate computer, that's not the brightest idea you've had, now is it?

But, on your break, do what you will, follow the rules.

The same can be said while on ATS for all those whiners who do not like the T & C.

The T & C is there to help you know what to do just as much not what to do.

Corporate policy, of Winn Dixie, is there, to tell you what to do as well as what not to do.

While I do not work at Winn Dixie, nor would I, I know my corporate policy, of any and all jobs I've ever performed inside, outside, and upside down.

No manager has ever been able to touch me, if I recite policy, word for word.

I went through six years of Hell, because of a manager who tried character assassination, because when she came on the job I had been there five years already, and knew policy, procedure, and protocol.

Learn to use that which is there to protect the corporation as well as the employees rights.

In other words, Deny Ignorance, and deny this jerk the right to get your goat, literally, figuratively, and in all ways, and just one other thing.

If you memorize the policy, procedure, and protocol, you might just take his job.

However, watch out he does not suspect that, or he will fire you regardless.

Oh yeah, that manager who put me through six years of Hell?

She quit, before she got fired, because she yelled at another employee and me, in front of not only other employees, but a customer.

Remember policy, procedure, and protocol, it can save your butt.

[edit on 14-3-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Originally posted by Nimrod
reply to post by v3_exceed

 

But....

On the other hand, if the use of internet became a problem, only since the manager saw one employee surfin on ATS.... and it was not before.

Actually an employer can determine at what point "previously accepted behavior" become unacceptable. I had a similar issue with mp3's within my office. When we allowed some staff to listen to mp3's or other music, it became an issue of "music wars" which interfered with others ability to do their work. So they lost the opportunity to listen to music.

Originally posted by Nimrod
If it is common behavior to surf on the web during breaktime.
Then It begins to look like some kind of discrimination based on political convictions or personnel beliefs.
Usualy, To be fired, based on descrimination is prohibited, regardless the time you have worked for an employer.

The above is kind of a sweeping generalization. A person may claim discrimination based on any number of things, but viewing a webpage isn't one of them. Although I am aware that a person who is commonly able to act a certain way may not be fired for that commonly acceptable behavior, Ie: if saying "hell" is common within an environment then one should not expect to be fired for saying "hell". However the advent of the internet has created some anomalies with what is accepted behavior.

I have already stated that I don't mind ATS being viewed by my staff, but a truly repulsive site could be only 1 click or book mark away.

For instance, I had one staff member who was really into gore. So one day for a laugh, he says want to see something really neat?..So I say sure, and he shows me this image of a guy who failed at killing himself with a shotgun. I calmly explained to that employee that I don't ever want to see anything like that again, or he would be fired. Although the staff is on the internet 99% of the time at work, under no circumstances is that kind of material deemed acceptable.

I think you would be hard pressed to find a judge to rule in favor of the employee when it comes to what can be viewed on a laptop within an employers environment. As previously stated it is the employers right to determine what they consider to be acceptable at their work place. In the OP he stated that the employer said don't visit ATS, not don't use the laptop, thus discrimination would be a pretty weak argument.

..Ex

reply to post by Springer




My dear, that post right there is why this site is such an amazing place and why many of the members here care about it so much.

Thanks for stepping up and standing up for what we know is right for one of our members.

reply to post by Josephus23


At technological employment locations, you are NOT allowed any technical method of transferring proprietary code under any circumstances. You would simply not be allowed to bring in a laptop. All internet access is also heavily controlled. It's not to be totalitarian, but to protect against theft of intellectual property.

..Ex

Originally posted by Springer
reply to post by Misoir

 

He's obviously a "limit what people are exposed to because we know what's GOOD for them" MORON. I think Glenn Beck (or one of his ilk) recently stated that anyone who investigates conspiracy theories is a terrorist, or some such idiocy.

Tell him to give me a call. He can use the 1-800 line, I'll pay for the ass chewing he's going to get.

What I would do if I were you would be join your local union. If Win Dixie doesn't have one then you might just want to find another job.

Let's face it. If you tell him that you're going come to ATS anyway he's only going to harass you until you quit. With a union he couldn't do this and that's why I've suggested you join one if there is indeed one availiable at your store.







[edit on 14-3-2010 by 3DPrisoner]

Originally posted by Josephus23
reply to post by Springer

 

But if no such things are stipulated in an employment contract, then I think that privacy laws still apply.

[edit on 3/14/2010 by Josephus23]

[edit on 3/14/2010 by Josephus23]

I am not confident that you are an employer. An employee agreement does not need to stipulate all possible circumstance in order to be valid.
IE: you must wipe your bottom from front to back. You may not leer at the customers...etc etc.. These are not usually stipulated, but are often expected within an employee/ employer relationship.

..Ex

reply to post by Misoir


I am not surprised in the least to be honest and I think it is shocking yes but to be expected.

I was fired last week for specifying that I would need one hour off work on a sunday (I was contractually obliged to work Mon-Fri 6am -3pm) to attend church. Also just to mention I was already working at least 3 hours overtime during weekdays (unpaid) and 6 hours on Saturday as well as Sunday (unpaid). Total hours were averaging around 70 per week and being paid for 37.5.

Its only going to get worse.

Scotland in case anyones wondering.

The official reason I was given was because I contacted a Managing Director (after my line manager refused to acknowledge my queries about overtime) about working so much overtime unpaid. I was specifically told to go to an MD if the line manager was a cause for concern as theres no HR (personnel dept).

I have to laugh because anyone I speak to is saying I should have just worked it anyways and stop moaning. Wheres the line in the sand? I say sand because thats what this whole so called society is built on these days.

I must be the bad one for demanding one hour of life huh!!?? Sure feels that way as I listen to family at times but I already know why this is happening to be honest.

Theres no persecution of any kind going on at all (sarcasm)

Just know, it could be worse, you could be sticking up for your beliefs.

Gotta say, if the person in question knew I browsed ATS they would probably have had a mild seizure followed by a nose bleed.

Cheers!



[edit on 14-3-2010 by XXXN3O]

This is simple - right to work or at will, doesn't matter.

This "boss" is creating a hostile work environement for you and needs to be reported to corporate. Make certain you use those words when you lodge a complaint with HR - "My boss is creating a hostile work environment for me!" My best friend is HR Director at a HUGE corporation and those words always scare the hell out of HR - those are LAWSUIT words! Regardless of the laws of the state, NO state permits harrasment, discrimination or intimidation of its employees!

Originally posted by Maxmars
Respectfully, unless I completely missed it, no one here is offering legal opinions. If your contention is that people should not even discuss the matter unless they are lawyers, I'm inclined to presume you are a lawyer, or one of their familiars.

You are most correct in warning that this not be presumed to be legal advice. This community shares many different perspectives according our own experiences, I will expect not all comments to be applicable, but I will not presume to take an accusatory stance in characterizing it as shameful.

In the end, the sad truth remains. "At will" means unprotected except by voluntary employer policy. It is the whole point. The issue of termination needn't ever get into the act of firing someone unless the employer be the actor. To go against that requires the courts... and we know where that lead$.

Remember, the first sentence in my reply was: “I have only read the first page.” I was not talking, in any direct way about the “at will” status of a particular state and what it means. In fact, I agree with you about “at will” employment – it’s damn good for employers but offers no protection to employees in any way. It is not my intention to limit discussion whatsoever, but, as always, in making our comments we should be conscious of the fact that what we say may lead someone to do something that they wouldn’t have otherwise – opening up themselves to a world of hurt and sometimes defeat. The fact is that OP’s handling of this situation really WILL impact his/her ability to provide, either for himself or for his family. It is REAL for him/her and has serious implications for his/her life. It is easy for people to talk about something they know little about or nothing at all when it doesn’t affect them personally.

My comment was, in no way, intended to limit discussion nor was it directed to any general comment, just the specific ones. Oh, and no I am not an attorney or a “familiar” (sounds like a vampire’s companion – or maybe they’re the same ). I am very, very familiar with this topic though because I have just concluded a very long and drawn out, EXPENSIVE (in terms of up-front funds as well as psychological) four year battle (and I do mean battle) successfully in an “at will” state. I learned many things in the course of the last 4 years, mostly that, unless you have the fortitude, willingness to do research on your own, and the funds to get through it, you will not be successful - the laws are written in favor of the corporation and not for the individual. Corporations almost always win because almost always they can outlast you. I’m just stubborn and was out to make a stand against what I (and the court thankfully) felt was immoral AND illegal.

What I WAS talking about (all from the first page, by the way):

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
he doesn't, and he can't.

Unless he uses some random reason like your scanned in this product wrong.

Tell him to go to hell.

He DOES, and he CAN. He doesn’t have to have any reason whatsoever… he can just walk in and say “I don’t like you anymore, you’re fired.” Not a good idea to tell your boss to go to hell by the way.

Originally posted by Office 4256
Apparently you live in Florida, which is NOT one of the "no cause" states mentioned by the second poster. Your supervisor is ignorant of the law and obviously not on the cutting edge of HR policies.

Wrong.

Originally posted by Flakey
Florida is an "at will" state meaning they can fire you for any reason so long as it is not illegal. Ideological discrimination could be considered illegal. You can not be discriminated against because of your political views. You have the right to visit this website on your off time with out fear of reprisal.

Wrong. There are NO political discrimination laws and ideological discrimination is not illegal.

Originally posted by mblahnikluver
I dont believe they can fire you for reading ATS. It's your right and sounds like your boss is a bit nosey. I would go above his head and talk to his boss or email corporate. He cant fire you for this!

Wrong again. He CAN fire him/her. It is NOT his/her “right” legally…morally, maybe, but morality is not legislated (normally).

Originally posted by RecentlyAwaken
Your best course of action is to simply find another job. But, we all know that's near impossible these days. However, should you choose to 'fight the good fight' then make sure you are following 'Company Policy' to the letter. If your boss continues with his 'warning' then show him the Company Policy that governs Internet Usage on breaks, acceptable and unacceptable websites, ect. Inform him that according to the Company Policy you are doing nothing wrong and request a 'written warning'. While this may go on your record it can be used later should things become Legally entangled.

From then on, do NOTHING to provoke him. Document everything your told to do and conversations he has with you. Especially ones that stray from the normal instructions that may be construed as 'punishment' for not doing what you were told.

Then, should you be terminated, you'll have all the evidence and documentation to back up a wrongful termination suit. But, remember, YOU have to be 100% clean and w/out fault, follow the rules, no talk back, no threats or showing of anger or violence or you lose everything.

This one is perhaps the most disturbing of them all. Request a WRITTEN warning??!!! My God, why would anyone do this? So they have documentation that you were warned before they fired you? And, if they're not fired, then they'll have something on their record forever? Then, it goes on to say that this documentation could help in a wrongful termination suit. O.M.G.!!! This poster has absolutely, positively NO IDEA what they are talking about, much less any idea whatsoever, what wrongful termination means.

Sorry for the long response, it just is disturbing to me that people who think they know what they’re talking about are so free with legal advice that really, truly could hurt someone.



[edit on 14/3/2010 by Iamonlyhuman]