##ATTENTION ALL 9/11 POSTERS- FORUM REJUVENATION##

It would be great to be able to have discussions around here without having them derailed and then turned into endless circles. Every time I see these messages though it always ends up running out of steam down the road and then another one pops up again.

I am glad to see this.

However I still will never post in another 9/11 thread again if I can help it.

I am happy to see that the staff is as frustrated with the mess that the 9/11 boards has become, but for me personally its just too late.

Thank you staff for all your hard work. I hope it works out for you.

I have never followed 9/11 threads with particular interest, but if the situation is really so bad, then I find these measures very acceptable and even beneficial.

BECAUSE THERE IS A RATING SYSTEM! (Flags)

If people do not like a thread they can simply ignore it and it will disappear into oblivion.

On the other hand we have to learn to live with the fact that threads we find ridiculous may get a lot of attention. Good food for thought - we might have to re-evaluate our own opinion.

And yes, nothing is more upsetting than wading through whiny posts of personal nitpicking when one has an interest in the actual subject!

It's about time I say let's see how this goes over on the 15th and further down the line.

I am glad to see this being done; I have not had a real debates with anyone in any of these 911 forums.
It has been a mud slinging fest of name-calling and personal insults I have tried numerous times to debate issues on the 911 threads by using credible sources only to be attack every time by the same poster in every 911 thread.
Yet some of theses posters are not interested in having a civil discussion on the 911 tread topics and could carless about 911 altogether. I have asked some of these troublemakers’ questions to only be ridiculed and insulted.

I support this Rejuvenation, and hopefully it will get rid of the Trolls who enjoy using these 911 threads for their personal playground.

Undisclosed Charges

Originally posted by Loadmaster
When you have to tell someone that you're in charge...you're not in charge

While it's a catchy (and often true) thing to say, in the case of discussion boards it's simply not possible to communicate without using language to do so.

Without it, not only would people not know who's in charge, but what the rules are, or who anybody is or what they have to say, for that matter. We can't use body language, telepathy or other forms of communication outside the forum paradigm (at least, not on a practical scale), so the observation falls flat.

If you prefer that we just start banning people without comment, I suppose that's the best choice in some cases, but it seems only fair to make sure before swinging the hammer.

I think we've been good about that. Now all that remains is the follow-through.

Let's see how it goes.

Bloody good show!

I have avoided adding my 2 cents to posts in the 9/11 forum after having been caught in the troll trap a few times. It's about time something was done and I for one will be popping my head in on this forum a lot more from now on.

Hopefully calling people "disinfo agents", "paid shills", "sheeple", and "paid whatever else" will fall into this. I've never posted in any 9/11 threads, but I've come across various things here and there that I didn't understand (generally physics/science/numbers things) and thought about asking if someone could explain them in layman's terms and opted not to after seeing another person ask similar questions and without a single thing being explained numerous people jumped in and started yelling about being a paid shill and disinfo agent and such.

Maybe that person had a history of bad behavior that led the other posters to not believe that it was a sincere question, I have no idea, but I sure wasn't about to jump in and ask if someone could explain anything to me after that. If I ask a question, assume good faith and just answer it, please.

Take care,
Cindi

Payment In Kind

Originally posted by Glencairn
Hopefully calling people "disinfo agents", "paid shills", "sheeple", and "paid whatever else" will fall into this.

Always and anon, and over the years we've certainly made no secret that such behavior is unwelcome anywhere on ATS, as the links below amply illustrate.

But for various reasons, notably this one and the fact that ATS is a popular, fast-moving discussion board, things tend to slip over time, leading to a cycle of problems and responses that often characterizes forum moderation.

In theory, it should be possible to provide a more consistent discussion experience with more aggressive, persistent and intrusive moderation, but there are negative consequences to such an approach in practice, especially in a community of conspiracy theorists.

So instead we generally prefer to cut members slack where we can, even though some people misinterpret that as neglect or an invitation for abuse. Over time, those that do tend to make their intentions known, and we respond accordingly.

Ultimately, we see the best results when a community like ours comes together for a common purpose, in this case keeping 9/11 discussions civil and on-topic.

To that end, please be sure to ALERT us when you see trouble, be patient (because solving problems takes time) and please do your best to set a good example for others by following the Golden Rule of posting: "Post unto others as you would have them post unto you."

This is especially important when you encounter someone being rude or abusive in the forums. The best response is to say nothing and instead respond via ALERT, let the staff have a look and enjoy a little smile if you notice that we agreed action was needed.

It's not a perfect solution, but it's the best one so far.




Previously:

Courtesy Is Mandatory
Your attention is needed please...
Please Stay On Topic
How Not To Be Banned From ATS...
Dealing with 9/11 Madness (argumentum ad hominem veritas)
Civility and Decorum are Required
Time to take a deep breath, and consider how we post...
Civility And Decorum Are Required on AboveTopSecret.com
I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore.
Ad Hominem Attacks And You
Trolling, And What To Do About It

...and that's only a partial list. Clearly the need for courtesy in our forums is not exactly a state secret.

Some other thoughts...

If 9/11 Truth is about truth, and nothing else, then ego should not come into play.

The only way for people to get the message across and into the mainstream is by calm, polite and civil conversation. Writing insults, being a smartass and mouthing off at people who don't share your opinion (and thats all it is, opinion) leaves a gaping hole open for society to dismiss the issues as those that are simply only discussed by "conspiracy theorists and whacknuts with nothing better to do" (as the MSM would have people believe)

The confrontational polarisation of issues is the single biggest contributing factor that prevents a whole host of non-mainstream topics from being discussed by wider society. Its a disease that has spread from politics into the wider body of discussions.

Now personally, apart from brief forays into the odd disusssion, I gave up posting in the 9/11 forum a while back because of the "trench warfare" mentality. Frankly, despite wanting to find out more, and express my theories on issues, I found that the whole debate was stuck in a mud pit that was just getting deeper and deeper, and you know what, it depressed me because I couldn't find a sensible conversation about it and the whole subject became irrelevant to me because of that.

Think about that for a minute.

How many people have been put off asking questions about the issue because of the nature of the discussions?

And let me make it clear - I'm referring to both sides of the argument, be it the people who purport (and I say that lightly, because there are times when I wonder if its the case because they seem to solely want to insult anyone who doesn't see it their way) to seek the "truth", or those that follow what has been deemed the "official story" (a term which is a cancer in itself that has spread to other subjects discussed on ATS and allows only for radical polarisation of an issue, setting a barrier in the way of actual discussion).

Next year will be the 10th anniversary of the event itself. Wouldn't it be nice if, in the year preceeding that date, the subject broke out into the mainstream and was discussed and investigated in real terms because of thoughtful, insightful and civil discussion promoted by ATS members and visitors?

Be the change you wish to see.

reply to post by intrepid



It's amazing that 2 out of the first 3 responses to your OP had to be banned. This shows the extent of the problem, and also shows the reason I never post in this forum - it has always been too contentious for my liking.

Good luck, intrepid. Your job can't be fun.

reply to post by Majic


I definitely understand the position that you guys are in. It isn't that I think you do a poor job of it at all, especially considering the size of this forum. When this happened I was a brand new member and had a whole big uncertainty about alerting and being a "tattle tale" or causing problems. I've gotten over that and do tend to alert now if I see something that I would be embarrassed to have someone I introduced to the forum read or be called because it appears to violate the T & C. I appreciate knowing that the staff does take the time to check into things.

The civility and decorum focus was one of the big draws for me and I am excited to see it being renewed on this section of the forum because I still come across things that I don't understand and would love to ask about.

Take care,
Cindi

If this protects posters from government troll's obvious attacks on anyone who doubts the OS that is great. But if it bans anyone who says anything the govt doesn't like, not so good. I have had several warnings that I didn't see until two months later. It would be nice if you could post warnings in U2U and highlight them so they would not be overlooked. People new to ATS get banned before they really understand the rules. This is a great forum for thoughtful debate, but people tend to want to express their feelings as well.
People do get emotional when they are attacked by members who are obvious govt disinfo plants. If you see 911 as an interesting topic that is one thing, but if you see 911 as an invasion by a foreign power, occupying your country using the tool of disinformation to keep your people in the dark and setting society up to massacre your people, you can get emotional about things. That seems extreme to you, but the CFR is in fact representing a foreign entity.
People who feel strongly about 911 want to get their views out there. They want people to wake up. Calling someone a troll when they are a troll should be allowed somehow.



[edit on 14-3-2010 by m khan]

GOOD.

But its not just about name calling. People should realize that a discussion is useless if its only about promoting your own views. Its unfortunate that threads sometimes becomes about winning the argument and not much else.

Im guilty of this myself. Its hard to have a genuine discussion on the Internet where people can be so annoying.


[edit on 14-3-2010 by Copernicus]

Originally posted by m khan
I have had several warnings that I didn't see until two months later. It would be nice if you could post warnings in U2U and highlight them so they would not be overlooked.

Sorry to have to call you on this but all warnings are accompanied by an automatically generated U2U.

Most warnings are accompanied by a banner that replaces the post in question.

Every time you get a U2U, a large red "U2U" button appears at the top of the screen. Its not diffcult to miss.

That has been happening for several years now, with every poster that gets a warning.

Feigning ignorance of staff actions is not an excuse that we are going to wear here.

A Little Help

Originally posted by mishigas
It's amazing that 2 out of the first 3 responses to your OP had to be banned.

I'm not at all surprised. Threads like these are incredible troll magnets with a proven track record.

For some people, it really doesn't matter what we actually say, only that it is US who are saying it. No matter what, they will always oppose it. Because we're "The Man" or something. Who knows? Who cares?

There are, however, some silver linings to the phenomenon.

As a rule of thumb, over 90% of the disruption found in our forums is caused by under 10% of the people who post -- usually well under 10%. It logically follows that removing them from the forums will also remove over 90% of the problems, making the decision easy enough.

Demonstrating their intent by trolling staff announcement threads makes our work even easier. It's like watching fish jump into the boat.

In a way it's kind of heartwarming to know that even forum trolls are willing to help us out now and then by identifying themselves so openly.

Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by m khan
I have had several warnings that I didn't see until two months later. It would be nice if you could post warnings in U2U and highlight them so they would not be overlooked.

Sorry to have to call you on this but all warnings are accompanied by an automatically generated U2U.

Most warnings are accompanied by a banner that replaces the post in question.

Every time you get a U2U, a large red "U2U" button appears at the top of the screen. Its not diffcult to miss.

That has been happening for several years now, with every poster that gets a warning.

Feigning ignorance of staff actions is not an excuse that we are going to wear here.

Thank you very much. I now try to check my U2U every now and then and quite frankly the U2U is always red. Is it red because you got a message or is it red because you got a warning? How do you turn the red off so you will be alerted to a new warning? I have a friend who was very emotional about the Bush's destroying the country. It took me a long time to get him interested in ATS and I didn't appreciate seeing him banned.

I can see how

Feigning ignorance of staff actions is not an excuse that we are going to wear here.

doesn't sound insulting to you. But it does to me.

Most warnings are accompanied by a banner that replaces the post in question.

It would also be nice if there was someway to review your own posts without having to go through every page of all the treads you have been in over again to find responses to what you have posted. Yes I know they are under myATS but not in any way you could review them daily.

The government has invested a lot of taxpayer, or national debt, dollars in protecting the OS. That they would assign disinfo trolls to ATS is obvious. Derailing the topic and slaming people is their modus operendi. That these trolls are traitors to their country is irrelevant. They are just doing their jobs and don't even feel guilty, totally cold blooded people. Anyone who actually reviews the material has to have doubts about the OS. Any one serious on the pro OS side will not likely be confident enough about it to post. There might be some total nut cases, ex-military types blindly defending the government, but it is a lot more likely that any one defending the OS will be on government payroll, imho.


[edit on 14-3-2010 by m khan]

Originally posted by m khan
Thank you very much. I now try to check my U2U every now and then and quite frankly the U2U is always red. Is it red because you got a message or is it red because you got a warning? How do you turn the red off so you will be alerted to a new warning? I have a friend who was very emotional about the Bush's destroying the country. It took me a long time to get him interested in ATS and I didn't appreciate seeing him banned.

Its red when you have a message left to read. If it stays red when you have read all the messages then report it via the complain/suggestion button in your member profile.

There is a way of knowing when U2U's are read. They change from bold text to plain in your outbox.

In other words, we know when our U2U's are read.

I can see how

Feigning ignorance of staff actions is not an excuse that we are going to wear here.

doesn't sound insulting to you. But it does to me.

I apologise if you feel insulted. However, the number of times the excuse of "you didn't tell me anything" is used is astounding, and frankly when it is used, its an insult to the staff who know how the system works.

Finally, what people post is their responsibility, not ATS's. People shouldn't have to be able to search to see what they did wrong because, frankly, the rules are clear and they shouldn't be posting in contravention of them.

If I sound harsh, its because I am being. The owners and staff of ATS are serious about this issue.

I have a question - and it's a legitimate one I feel.

Does this have anything to do with the CIA department that was set up to specifically combat proliferation of 9/11 theories and gathering of evidence to support said theories?

I believe one of their prime remits was to disrupt internet communities that specialised in dealing with this subject. Now, I'm not going to go around calling people 'shills' as was stated above, but my tin-foil hat is vibrating with a low-frequency hum at the moment.

I am 100% positive that the aforementioned department has been active on these forums - do our resident admins have any IP address evidence pertaining to this? OR perhaps posting evidence by certain users?

It would be great to see some of the 'official' discussions or evidence relating to this issue if any evidence has been recorded.

Parallex.