For 2012, go to the source, and listen to Mayan Grand Elder Grandfather Cirilo Perez Oxlaj

I think it's quite logical they don't have an exact date for an event of this magnitude. We have the same 'flaws' in our gregorian calendar system. E.g. Spring starts at march 21st, at least, we say it does. Nature doesn't always agree on this exact date, though it's an accepteble approximation. And this is something that happens every year! So why would people expect an exact date for something that occurs every couple of thousand years at most?

As for the 60-70 hours of light/darkness:

I think a tilt of the earth's polar axis is the most plausible explanation for something temporary. Galactic Center?? Nemesis star?

Can't help but looking forward to it. Sheer curiosity

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


because we live in virtual reality and nothing is real, everything is a sofisticated computer game. the programmers called Azukas work for evil to extract energy from light beings jailed inside the virtual bodies who dont exist that is why the sun can be turn off and on because its computer generated

Holy frijoles! In the spirit of DENY IGNORNACE we need to check out the source.

The so-called Mayan elder, Don Alejandro Oxlaj that appeasr in this video is just another huckster going whichever way the wind blows.

I tracked down our Spanish speaking, about as Mayan as Joe Bidden so-called Elder giving the doom and gloom version of 2012 for a New Age slick flick called Shift Of The Ages .

In this up and coming movie Don Alejandro Oxlaj , AKA Grandfather Cirilo Perez Oxlaj’s, AKA Wakatel Utiw his alleged Mayan name which means “Wandering Wolf” – even though there has never been ANY species of wolf native to Guatemala “warns us that we have arrived at a critical crossroads. The message is simple and clear: we must change the way we live NOW.”

So there you have it. Some charlatan being paraded around by a bunch of New Age money grubbers as some mystical magic man that can’t even speak the language of his so-celled ancestors!

I don’t know if anything will happen in 2012, but I do know if you want to debunk it you are going to need more credible sources than this.

Hurumph!

Erm,

what comes the very first to mind is: how was it confirmed that this guy actually is a Mayan elder..

..and how is it confirmed, that he actually is speaking about the Mayan elders wisdom, instead of sharing a mishmash of the many now so popular theories.

Thank you for the link in anycase.

[edit on 15-3-2010 by Jussi]

Originally posted by WorldObserver
Holy frijoles! In the spirit of DENY IGNORNACE we need to check out the source.

The so-called Mayan elder, Don Alejandro Oxlaj that appeasr in this video is just another huckster going whichever way the wind blows.

I tracked down our Spanish speaking, about as Mayan as Joe Bidden so-called Elder giving the doom and gloom version of 2012 for a New Age slick flick called Shift Of The Ages .
In this up and coming movie Don Alejandro Oxlaj , AKA Grandfather Cirilo Perez Oxlaj’s, AKA Wakatel Utiw his alleged Mayan name which means “Wandering Wolf” – even though there has never been ANY species of wolf native to Guatemala “warns us that we have arrived at a critical crossroads. The message is simple and clear: we must change the way we live NOW.”

I guess i'm just going to have to get used to this fear-based reaction then. An overt amount of negativity regarding this subject - and why?

Anyway, it seems you wanted to expose this Mayan elder but you didn't even get remotely close to doing so.

And did you even watch ANY of the clips on that page?

Where exactly is the doom and gloom? Saying there will be 70 hours of darkness is not doom and gloom, its just a day or 2 without sunlight.

This elder said it is NOT a time of doom and gloom, that it should be celebrated as we celebrate a new year. We should welcome it he says.

This site is becoming very disappointing of late as it has become overrun with people to eager to shoot things down, who crucify anyone who dares put out a film or book about anything and who seem quite scared to even consider anything outside of their security blanket world.

Everyone is more than entitled to their own opinion, but i feel there is unwarranted skepticism and negativity in this case.

reply to post by srsen


Srsen, do calm down. It isnt helping your cause when due to one of few, you disparage the rest, alienating them to whatever doubts that they may to clarify with you.

Personally, just my own insignificant and uneducated perception, it does surprised me that there could be even one living descendant fo the Mayans today.

For disappeared recorded civilisations such as the Romans or Greeks, it can be easily traced to the current living descendants even around the world. But not so easy for archeological findings of civilisations who only left their inscriptions on stone or worse such as the Atlanteans, whom are only by words of Plato.

Even if you used that argument that the present 'Mayan' is indeed a descendant from the survivors who had somehow decided to go 'native', 'back to the jungles/nature' instead of continuing their city building, it would mean giving up on their lifestyle and societal functions, meaning a dumbing down of their civilisation.

How much do you need to know to live in the jungles? And why bother passing down education if their elders lead their civilisation into jungle living?

Worse, could they have even survived the conquering barbarian human sacrificing Aztecs that conquered much territories in S.America and were the only civilisation alive there that Cortez met?

Do consider in quiet contemplation. I only join this thread, not to dispute the elder or his message, but because I believe there may be a significance to the Mayan calender, and hope indeed it may as mainstream belief said so - just a cycle of time, nothing else.

More of a quest for the truth that I lack in this subject than anything else, and would prefer a reliable source, not from some human sacrificing Aztec descendant if that is what he really is unless he can prove otherwise...

Cheers.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


It's just become frustrating to see the majority of comments on such subjects being overly negative and, to be honest, there doesn't seem to be much more than assumptions made on most parts.

Tho my post did manage to come across WAY harsher than i intended. So my bad there.

My point is tho that we really don't know how the Mayans lived, whether any of the 7 million Mayans alive today are true descendants, whether our Western take on their culture is accurate or how they acquired their knowledge.

But if we are to take what i would consider to be the most direct source of information as the most reliable, then we must go along with what the current Mayan Edlers say, which means abandoning our pre-conceived notions of the Mayans as human sacrificers and jungle dwelling simpletons.

I suppose it just disappoints me when such educated people on such an educated website display such uneducated tendencies. I guess i'm just too idealistic at times.

reply to post by srsen


I understand what you mean, and agree that there is not much that mankind comprehend of the true Mayan Civilisation except for the inscriptions on their monuments and artifacts. And it tells of a far nobler and intelligent ethnic group than the Aztecs that came after them.

And no, the Mayans do not practice human sacrifice, at least based upon their inscriptions, only the barbarian Aztecs do, whom were practically jungle savages when the Mayan civilisation flourished.

With todays comprehension, anyone can claim to be Mayan. I for one would love to claim myself to be an Atlantean, go on youtube and tell you what you want to hear - 2012 will not be doom and gloom, only a miserly 70 hours without sunlight.(not doom and gloom??? Had my brains gone soft??) I too have a stone calender, only that it is deep down in the Marianna Trench.

It's good to come here and keep an open mind. Just make sure you don't leave the brains at the door, lol! No. There is more to the intellectualsim and intelligence of the enigmatic Mayans than what the 'elder' is alluding to.

No. WE cannot accept the so called 'ELDER's ' words simply because he claimed be of the noble Mayans without any evidence. The true Mayan descendant priest would have revealed his civilisation's verifiable history long ago, the way the Indian priests and Dagon shaman tribes had done, and not until questions abound on the calender recently then he came forward, even if we are to discount the profit angle, the typical trick to debunk someone.

Originally posted by srsen
reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

 

It's just become frustrating to see the majority of comments on such subjects being overly negative and, to be honest, there doesn't seem to be much more than assumptions made on most parts.

Hello,

I understand you totally. Few years back I was also amazed by all the things being told about 2012 - but then after looking more into it, there is really really much bogus stuff - even in the History Channels documentaries etc. being told.

Personally I like a logical based worldview - and I would not consider that as fearbased. If what is being said holds the water, then we must actually have a 1+1=2 like formula for that understanding.

If for example what that man says is true about a galactic plane, we should have some evidence for this.

I mean - we should have some evidence by the ones making these 2012 documentaries at least. I have personally delved really deeply into this - and there is much that can look like it is giving this thing credibility (and I am not saying this is impossible to have a shifting of consciousness), but when you look more into it, you realise there is no science actually behind that.

As there is neither in the normal view on history.

What personally angers me, is the lack of any sort of need for proof on both sides.


[edit on 15-3-2010 by Jussi]

Originally posted by dashar


But have we not just entered a dust field or flux field recently .which is magnetic , maybe it has a very dense area we have to traverse increasing in magnetism or gravity starting 2010,2011 peaks 2012 we starting to emerge 2013,2014.

We (our solar system) is moving around the galactic centre, the cycle however is much bigger than 5000 odd years. I thought that perhaps the Mayan's started their calendar at it's finish 2012 and wrote backwards to arrive at it's beginning as a sort of count down. Just because the cycle was too big to fit on one pyramid and they wished to speak of this time.

A mega thick cosmic dust cloud could block out the sun and our view of the stars it would also renew our planet in a physical way, bringing in a blanket of possibly minerialised dust. I prefer this idea to a change of Earths axis - that is a doomsday event people.










[edit on 3/14/2010 by dashar]

I would just like to say that I dont think oral histories are given enough credibility in our written word, documenting society. It has been shown that oral history can be quite acurate but something struck me about this.

What if the end of the long count means nothing more than the mayan clock/callender needs to be reset?

What if the change in concousness is akin to our new years resolution?

How hard would it be for a priest to reset this callender during some ritual held at night and an announcement that three days had passed.

I doubt pulling the wool over trusting peoples eyes is a new thing in humanity or that it is unique to our modern society.

I apolagise in advance if the above shows ignorance but this subject is often to steeped in doom and gloom for me and the info on it twisted by our own fears or religious politics.

[edit on 15-3-2010 by colin42]

60 to 70 hours is a very small light at the end of a very long tunnel.
It's still a long time for someone like a Rahm Emanuel to chime in and say "You never want a serious crisis to go to waste,..."

"Otro Sol" - very profound words, and not just because that's what I say during happy hour.

Interesting post. But how do we know that the man is right or not.

To me it's like comparing it to this. A scientist in london makes a calendar for some reason. And then a thousand years in the future, one of the only few random ancestors of the people of London, explains to us what he thinks will happen.

Now how can this man 1000 years later, really know why the scientist in london who he does not know made that calendar.

Now of course maybe he would have been lucky enough to have been passed down the information. But after 1000 years of hear say, like chinese whispers. You can only take it with a grain of salt.

My point is, it's still hard to say if anything will happen or not, especially when every single person tells us something totally different will happen. It's all crazy.
But the three days of darkness is interesting, since it's not the only place I've heard of such a prophecy.

[edit on 15-3-2010 by _Phoenix_]

Originally posted by WorldObserver
I tracked down our Spanish speaking, about as Mayan as Joe Bidden so-called Elder giving the doom and gloom version of 2012 for a New Age slick flick called Shift Of The Ages .

Since when did "New Age" become "doom and gloom?"

Now if the earth tilted, wouldn't that cause massive earthquakes worldwide because of plate/fault stress and slippage? The Mayan and Egyptian reports I read never mentioned any earthquakes, but they may have neglected to report that detail if their area didn't experience any problems.

Very interesting question.. I'm not a scientist, but I'd venture to guess if the earth turned so much so that we have 3 days of darkness (or light depending on where you are) then we would have MAJOR issues.. Earthquakes would be a certainty, massive flooding would be a certainty, and massive hysteria would be a certainty.

What causes the 3 days of darkness? Certainly something that could shift the earth on its axis.. Whats big enough to do that? Another planet, the galactic core's black hole, or something else?

Our government is preparing for something.. What? We can only guess.. But this type of discussion is critical despite what some naysayers will tell you.

Um, no, I'm not sure why it does make sense to go this source.

The Mayan culture was destroyed hundreds of years ago. They didn't even retain the ability to decipher their own symbols and codices. Some European archaeologist had to come in over a hundred years ago and rediscover their ancient civilization. So why should I give a hoot what they think, when they aren't even really the Mayans anymore?

I really don't think anything is going to happen in 2012 other than the usual Earth Natural events, i.e. Earthquakes, Tornados, Floods, Maybe a Volcano Eruption or 2, but not all at once, just your normal Earthly tectonic events...

Just because the Mayans stopped recording past 2012 doesnt' mean anything. Computers were limited to Y2K and u see what happened with that one...

Originally posted by CAPT PROTON
Ah, so thats the tale of the 3 days of darkness, it occurs during the calendar rollover. Now that would be special.

Whats also interesting is a similar story reported by the ancient Egyptians, but in their report they had 3 days of Sun. The Egyptians said the tides changed and the Nile ran backward. The Sun would dip low in the sky but never set and then rise again.

So I guess where ever you are during this time, you would either get 3 days of dark or 3 days of light.

I assume the only thing strong enough to tilt the earth like that would be the galactic core. So it takes about 3 days to move through its influence.

Now if the earth tilted, wouldn't that cause massive earthquakes worldwide because of plate/fault stress and slippage? The Mayan and Egyptian reports I read never mentioned any earthquakes, but they may have neglected to report that detail if their area didn't experience any problems.

An absolutely excellent observation.
Since the Mayans are south American it makes sense that if they (we) have 70 hours darkness, then in the northern hemisphere it would be the opposite.
Though I think any large body close enough to earth could do this too if we intrude on it's space as we weave our way through the galactic plane?

reply to post by St Udio

this 60-70 hours of darkness, could not be caused by a stop in the rotation of the Earth, physics tells us that is impossible.

I don't believe anyone mentioned the rotation of the earth stopping.
What has been discussed is the earth's axis tilting...is that what you were referring to ?
Because THAT is actually very good physics.
cheers.

Originally posted by k3456789
reply to post by Iamonlyhuman

 

because we live in virtual reality and nothing is real, everything is a sofisticated computer game. the programmers called Azukas work for evil to extract energy from light beings jailed inside the virtual bodies who dont exist that is why the sun can be turn off and on because its computer generated

That's almost exactly what I was thinking, I mean as an alternate explanation.

We Are V R!

Our world is the computer and the our galaxy is our subnet that will be going down for maintenance.
Or maybe our entire subnet will be getting relocated but coming back online in a different part of the universe, hence the "other sun" comment made by my Uncle Cirilo.

Whew, I sure hope God has a disaster recovery plan, just in case.