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"Insulted" by Israel, U.S. scrambles to save talks

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posted on Mar, 14 2010 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


well said

its funny how some come up with diffrent reasons when their previous reasons are flawed or fail.



posted on Mar, 14 2010 @ 12:56 PM
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To me it seemed like it was under the same British Mandate meaning it was an open ended land, in the video you can see Christmas trees the people even look free from Arabic laws in how they dress and appear maybe because there already were Jews there too.

I do wonder what kind of law did they live under then before 1947 as that might give clues to some answers. Palestinians what does that mean, from what religious beliefs from what backgrounds at the time?

Ottoman–German Alliance must tell you something about how the latter stages of WW2 was conducted, there was also meeting between Arab leaders and Hitler during the 1940s so you can not say the circle of hate never had any connections.

The 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine was an uprising in protest against mass Jewish immigration, which lasted from 1936 to 1939, by Arabs in the British Mandate of Palestine,... either way the Jews were being driven out.

The land was an open book and who ever wanted it in the end had to fight for it seems.





This deeply entrenched hatred of the Jews and love for Hitler and the Nazis surfaced during the time of one of the first Palestinian leaders, the Grand Mufti Haj Amin el Husseini, during the 1930's.

It is evident in what the Mufti said on Berlin radio while he was Hitler's guest in Germany. His words prove that there was total agreement between the Palestinian leader and this murderer of G-d's people:

Kill the Jews - kill them with your hands, kill them with your teeth - this is well pleasing to Allah!
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In 1929, major Arab riots were instigated against the Jews of Palestine. They began when al-Husseini falsely accused Jews of defiling and endangering local mosques, including al-Aqsa. The call went out to the Arab masses: "Izbah Al-Yahud!" — "Slaughter the Jews!" After the killing of Jews in Hebron, the Mufti disseminated photographs of slaughtered Jews with the claim that the dead were Arabs killed by Jews.
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As you can see the genocide idea was not only in the minds of the Germans but of the Arabs which cross pollinated the hatred to Germany.


[edit on 14-3-2010 by The time lord]



posted on Mar, 14 2010 @ 01:12 PM
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American Government shock and criticism is nothing more than window dressing.

Billary Clinton is, I believe, to be a keynote speaker at the AIPAC convention that is coming up, along with many other US politicians, all keen to once again proclaim their loyalty to Israel to secure the "campaign" donations. In the real world we call them bribes, bungs and payoffs.



posted on Mar, 14 2010 @ 01:42 PM
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reply to post by The time lord
 

There are many myths surrounding the birth of Israel. Organisations like CAMERA like to write history. Not accurate, but with the intention to push a certain agenda. "land without people for a people without land" is just a myth. Also there is no reason to invoke Hitler.
www.gilad.co.uk...

Christians made up quite a large percentage of the Palestinian population. Now there are few left. Together with the muslims, they were driven from their inherited land. In Jerusalem Christians are still targeted by Zionists in hateful attacks.
fr.jpost.com...


Estimates of the number of Arab Christians in the Arab world vary. Christians today make up 9.2% of the population of the Near East. In Lebanon they now number around 39% of the population, in Syria about 10 to 15%. In Palestine before the creation of Israel in 1948, estimates ranged up to as much as 40%

en.wikipedia.org...


And here is why the first settlers were not accepted with open arms:


The standard Zionist position is that they showed up in Palestine in the late 19th century to reclaim their ancestral homeland. Jews bought land and started building up the Jewish community there. They were met with increasingly violent opposition from the Palestinian Arabs, presumably stemming from the Arabs’ inherent anti-Semitism. The Zionists were then forced to defend themselves and, in one form or another, this same situation continues up to today.

The problem with this explanation is that it is simply not true, as the documentary evidence in this booklet shall show. What really happened was that the Zionist movement, from the beginning, looked forward to a practically complete dispossession of the indigenous Arab population so that Israel could be a wholly Jewish state, or as much as was possible. Land bought by the Jewish National Fund was held in the name of the Jewish people and could never be sold or even leased back to Arabs (a situation which continues to the present). The Arab community, as it became increasingly aware of the Zionists’ intentions, strenuously opposed further Jewish immigration and land buying because it posed a real and imminent danger to the very existence of Arab society in Palestine. Because of this opposition, the entire Zionist project never could have been realized without the military backing of the British. The vast majority of the population of Palestine, by the way, had been Arabic since the seventh century A.D. (over 1200 years).

In short, Zionism was based on a faulty, colonialist world-view that the rights of the indigenous inhabitants didn’t matter. The Arabs’ opposition to Zionism wasn’t based on anti-Semitism but rather on a totally reasonable fear of the dispossession of their people.

www.ifamericansknew.org...



[edit on 14-3-2010 by Drunkenshrew]



posted on Mar, 14 2010 @ 01:53 PM
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reply to post by The time lord
 


The indigenous Arabs were basically involved in three kinds of lifestyles.

1. Was nomadic herders that would follow their flocks across international borders as Bedouin herding was considered a legitimate practice and way of life individual governments did not interfere with. This segment more than any other gave rise to the myths that Arabs started flocking to the land as Jews did, which is simply not true they had been coming and going for centuries following their herds looking for forage and water.
2. Rural tribal villages used a collective farming method where the land was considered to be owned by all the tribes of the region and these tribal elders and chieftains would meet at the beginning of each planting season to determine how much of the tillable land each tribe/village needed to grow enough crops to sustain its population that year. That system had been being used for thousands of years.
3. Urban shop keepers, oligarchs and royals who lived in places like Jerusalem and Haifa. All of these people were religiously tolerant because under the Ottoman Rule the Mufti of Jerusalem coined the word Status Quo to describe how each various sect of Christians, Jews and Muslims was given its own antonymous fiefdom over sites or portions of sites most important to them.

In fact long standing agreements between the various religions and tribes that were more or less handshake agreements and customs that endured for hundreds if not thousands of years went out the window when the Zionists started trying to seed a colony in Palestine to upset the balance of the status quo and gain supreme power over the land.

In regards to segment number one the nomadic herders were dependent on long standing land ownership laws that prevented absolute ownership of land to the point that you could fence it or otherwise bar the passage of nomadic herders.

One of the things the Zionists lobbied the British for once they British took over was to change the land ownership laws to allow for absolute ownership so that lands could be fenced or barred from nomadic free ranging herds.

The Zionists then started buying strategic swaths of land with an eye to make nomadic herding no longer economically viable.

This led to the first significant violence and was very similar to the private wars that happened in the late 19th century in the Midwestern United States between Ranchers and free Rangers.

A large part of the Zionist manifesto was about making Palestine economically untenable for the indigenous Arabs to forse them to flee.

The next step the Zionists took was to get corrupt British Officials to sell land that belonged communally to group number 2. Land that was considered owned simply through mutual possession without deeds or titles was suddenly confiscated deeded and sold off to the Zionists once again who were looking to buy it strategically to break up the traditional communal agriculture system that the natives had been using and sustaining themselves with for well over a thousand years.

As more and more indigenous Arabs found their lifestyles and economic sustainability threatened by the Zionist immigration and the new laws of course the tenser and the more violent the situation became.

Meanwhile the Zionists decreed no Jew could hire an Arab to work in their shops or on their farms to further economically isolate and deprive the indigenous Arabs of any kind of economic vitality. May Jewish Shop Keepers and farmers who violated that edict were murdered by the Zionists for doing it and that is well documented.

So no the Zionists were not in fact bringing anything honest, law abiding or peaceful to the table but actually contriving from day one to gain hegemony and dominance over the land by driving out the indigenous Arabs using economics and violence and driving out the British using violent terrorism, in which there are many well documented cases of Zionist violence against the British to do just that. Then later against the U.N. including the murder of Count Bernadotte Folke the Swedish Count and U.N. Special Envoy to Palestine by future Prime Minister and Stern Gang Leader Yitzhak Shamir.

Who was in reality himself an atheist and like most of the founding Zionists bent on a violent solution in gaining control over the area.

Meanwhile the British played their usual colonial tricks by building up the poorer and less political savvy Palestinian Royals and Oligarchs to go after their more powerful rivals which effectively kept the Palestinians from any kind of concerted and uniform response to the growing Zionist presence and threat to their way of life.

The Zionists never intended to abide by the Mandate and the accords that would award them just 48% of the land and part of their early land buying habits once again for strategic purposes was to buy large swaths from the British that would make it impossible for the Arabs to have a contiguous 52% which is why you see today the Palestinians divided geographically with a portion basically herded into Gaza which is a huge open air prison surrounded by automated computerized machine gun pill boxes, mine fields, barbed wire and concrete walls, and on the other side of occupied Israel the West Bank where the Palestinians there live in slightly better conditions but have the Zionists still whittling away at their farms and groves and land.

Secular Zionist Israel has nothing to do with the Jewish Religion or culture, many Orthodox Jews protest against the Zionists and their policies and most of the world’s Jews prefer to remain in Diaspora abroad to avoid breaking the tenants of the religion by going to Israel without the Messiah leading them to it and refounding it himself.

Meanwhile places like Miami Beach where I live are full of illegal Israeli immigrants born in Israel but dead set against having to live in it because of it’s policies and the culture of cyclical violence and chaos its policies and actions have created.

It’s highly doubtful this is what Yahweh intended.




[edit on 14/3/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Mar, 14 2010 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by illusive man
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


well said

its funny how some come up with diffrent reasons when their previous reasons are flawed or fail.



Thanks my friend, and its kind of sad and dangerous too when people start substituting myths and legends for history and facts.

Yes its impossible to ever get the whole truth and it always takes two to tango and both parties always share a portion of the blame but some of the abject and object fairy tales used to validate violence, theft and murder and to even openly call for more of it are as deadly as they are foolish in my humble opinion.

History should always be about unbiased facts not present agendas.



posted on Mar, 14 2010 @ 03:08 PM
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If they British wanted to they could have taken all of the Arab world in a single swipe and keep it for them selves, this was not just about keeping land but creating a save haven for a small group of people. They were attacked during the famously named Six Day War which they Arab world lost on all sides. The Jews have demanded democracy but no one is interested in it and the mini wars continues today.

If the British wanted to they could have kept Iraq to them selves, they could have said let us make Iraq more Christian, make it ours give these people the benefit of the doubt. It was reborn after the Ottoman rule and they got Saddam Hussian for their efforts of peace. They could have even said let us make Israel like ancient Israel from the River Nile to the Euphrates, I am sure with some effort they could, but they were fair in their ways compared to the boot on the other foot.
Iraq was established and because of it many Christians were killed off once the British left many had fleed Iraq and sects started killing each there. Much earlier in time many of the Christian populations were killed off during the Ottoman empires 70,000 Assyrian Christians beheaded in Tikrit, and 90,000 more in Baghdad during the 14th century and the trend continued through out, it is not about democracy all this has always been about ridding of minority groups in the same light which is going on all over the world and the Jews are just one example where it still lingers on.



Ottoman rule ended with World War I, and Iraq came to be administered by the British Empire until the establishment of the Kingdom of Iraq in 1932. The Republic of Iraq was established in 1958 following a coup d'etat.
Text


Many minorities were driven out then a long with mass killings there too. No doubt this would happen if the Palistinians got what they want under their own laws.

I mean this debate could go on for ages but I am trying to expand the knowledge if people feel like it is a one way traffic of information.
Half the problem is that Islam is imcompatible and uncompromising on a national scale and it reaps what it sows for it self under their own curse.

After many years Israel have offered freedom on all sides but that freedom is not good enough for some, there are many Gazans who probably do want freedom but are kept prisoner under the fear of Hamas and their belief systems. It can work out if they tried but it will not happen because of stubborness.



[edit on 14-3-2010 by The time lord]



posted on Mar, 14 2010 @ 03:19 PM
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reply to post by The time lord
 


maybe britain should of attempted to take the arab world.
maybe we could of had a India like revoltion and more industrial set of countries


also whats with the bulls** about islam when it comes to Palestine and israel.

islam is incompatible with that, islam is evil like most people dont take a piss about islam, cant people like your self stay on the matter at hand without resorting to religion?

Palestine, Christian and Muslim, not all palestinians are Muslim, vice versa not all palestinians are christian. so cut back on religous crap


also This is about Palestine and Israel
not about Iraq, Saudi and so on,

and there is already people being dislocated and its not by the Palestinians


[edit on 14-3-2010 by illusive man]



posted on Mar, 14 2010 @ 03:34 PM
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If Palestinians for example were Christian they would fit in a lot more than Muslims because they don't have the same hatred for Jews in which scripture can be used as an excuse to hate. Christians too are being bullied by Jews in some parts but the overall effect would not be war like in Gaza. This attitude is no different in parts of Africa, Pakistan, Thailand, Chechnya Russia and all other Muslim boarder or population growths. this will happen in the Western society where the imcompatible culture and beliefs demand their own ways over yours, it is just about that but on a larger scale.

I feel like I'm going down many paths but the core issue of all this sepratist ideals and no room for compromise.



posted on Mar, 14 2010 @ 03:45 PM
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reply to post by The time lord
 


i call BS on your reply

first Muslims are evil, now christians
make up your frikking mind.

Jews are also Evil as they use their scripture to kill aswell,
what was that Rabbi again that preached to Israeli forces about killing civilians

also Reliogions have scripture that says you can Kill, mame and the other candy and suger coated crap about taking another human life.

the core issue here is people using religion to justify the crimes of both sides.
Israel encluded.

also on your they demand this and that , since you use history to voice your views, Western society has done so over centuries but impose their customs on millions of people, its a crappy way of life but what the hell.

the Only diffrence now is we are suppose to be more civil but that seems to have hit the fans as we let # happen anyway and we have people to try to justify it any means nessocery.



posted on Mar, 14 2010 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by The time lord
If Palestinians for example were Christian they would fit in a lot more than Muslims because they don't have the same hatred for Jews in which scripture can be used as an excuse to hate. Christians too are being bullied by Jews in some parts but the overall effect would not be war like in Gaza. This attitude is no different in parts of Africa, Pakistan, Thailand, Chechnya Russia and all other Muslim boarder or population growths. this will happen in the Western society where the imcompatible culture and beliefs demand their own ways over yours, it is just about that but on a larger scale.

I feel like I'm going down many paths but the core issue of all this sepratist ideals and no room for compromise.


Most Christians in Palestine are Palestinians. They are Arabs. But most Christians have left the West Bank, Gaza and Israel. Many have chosen to emigrate because of the hardships, lack of opportunities and intolerance. It is no wonder that there is violence in Palestine/Israel. Violence and hatred breed wherever injustice is encountered. Jews have lived in many Muslim countries side by side with Muslims. The injustice in Israel has brought many Muslim countries to treat Jewish minorities worse than before. If Zionists were interested in furthering Jewish interests, they should give Palestinians equal right and stop warmongering against other countries like Iran. In Iran live about 25.000 Jews. More than in any other Muslim country. A preemptive military strike by Israel could result in a backlash against them.

In the past all three Abrahamic religions have shown that they lack tolerance. Our western societies are much more tolerant towards minorities. I believe this is not a result of our religion. The crusaders have failed to conquer the muslim world. But in most places were Christianity ruled for a longer time, it was very good at rooting out all other religions. I believe our tolerance is a result of the Age of enlightenment, the secularisation of society and the direct experience how much terror and suffering religious or ethnic stuggles can cause.

I agree with you, that we should protect our values and legal system against incompatible values from immigrants.

Christian Emigration Report: Palestine

Christian emigration from the Holy Land is not a new story. From the late 19th century, Christian families seeking greater economic opportunity, freedom of social and religious expression and political stability have left the region to establish themselves in the West. In recent decades – particularly in the 1990s – the number of Christian emigrants from the West Bank and Gaza have increased considerably.

This steady stream of Palestinian Christian emigrants has raised fears that, in the future, the Christian presence in the Holy Land will be reduced to caretakers of empty churches, museums and institutions. Emigration is not caused by one single factor, but by many factors, most of which are experienced by the broader Palestinian population. These include economic hardship, housing, political uncertainty, threats to personal security, education and challenges to religious identity.

Although statistics are limited, community leaders have verified the increase of Palestinian Christian emigration, especially in those areas of Christian concentration – Bethlehem, Jerusalem and Ramallah. And, to a large extent, Christian emigrants outnumber Muslim emigrants. This report explores the current concerns of the Holy Land’s Christians and summarizes the causes of this exodus.

www.cnewa.org...

see also:
en.wikipedia.org...-Christian_discrimination

Edit to add: I believe we all stray off topic

[edit on 14-3-2010 by Drunkenshrew]



posted on Mar, 14 2010 @ 06:36 PM
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All I said was if the Palistines were Christians I doubt there would be this problem.

If the Palistines were Chinese I doubt there would be this problem.

No doubt today there are Christians in Israel that are being treated badly, I have seen the evidence on a documentary my self.

So anyway WW2 the world is a mess people have little hope for the future, maybe they have a lot of faith some feel like it was justified to bring the Jews back to their homeland, they did and war broke out, the Jews won even when out numbered get over it.

Isreal tried to use democracy but they don't want it, if the Arabs get their hands on Israel then expect the Jews to be driven out and treated as slaves.

The Jews in Iran come from families before Islam was even invented along with any ancient churches, they have always been there even before todays Iran.

It seems to effect peoples on all sides it seems.

Israel is a democracy for all people so there would be no wars and if some do not understand that then there is problem. It feels like they are more interested in being spiteful than useful and peaceful which will be the downfal on all sides.


Christians are fleeing Lebanon to escape political and economic crises and signs that radical Islam is on the rise in the country.
In a poll to be published next month which was exclusively leaked to The Sunday Telegraph, nearly half of all Maronites, the largest Christian denomination in the country, said they were considering emigrating. Of these, more than 100,000 have submitted visa applications to foreign embassies. Their exodus could have a devastating effect on the country, robbing it of an influential minority which has acted as an important counter- balance to the forces of Islamic extremism.
About 60,000 Christians have already left since last summer's war between Israel and Hezbollah. Many who remain fear that a violent showdown between rival Sunni and Shia factions is looming.
Text


[edit on 14-3-2010 by The time lord]

[edit on 14-3-2010 by The time lord]



posted on Mar, 14 2010 @ 06:40 PM
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reply to post by The time lord
 


Two things many Palestians were and are in fact Christian...

The Persians existed in Persia and were a great empire long before anyone even heard of the Hebrews or they ever lived there.

So regardless of what religion modern Persians are they still have a much longer claim to the land.



posted on Mar, 14 2010 @ 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by The time lord


Isreal tried to use democracy but they don't want it, if the Arabs get their hands on Israel then expect the Jews to be driven out and treated as slaves.

The Jews in Iran come from families before Islam was even invented along with any ancient churches, they have always been there even before todays Iran.


damn you Jump about alot

from evil muslims
to evil christians and now the democracy card lol

Israel tried democracy? what a whole load of BS

when Hamas was voted in israel brought in a storm of hate from the outside world along with group punishment.

israel doesnt give a damn about democracy, one reason it treats christian and muslim israelis like second class citizens,

also stop bringing in other countries, seriously you have issues



posted on Mar, 14 2010 @ 06:57 PM
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Voting in Hamas is an Oxymoron meaning that if you have an election and that election is a dead end to all democracy then it's a dead end to freedom of choice. They say Free Israel to what? Freedom to implement oppressive laws and ban basic freedom and human rights. It is good that they had an election and Hamas won because you know they will naver change as a people, most the Palestine Christians have left by that time.

Persians are from Iran and they did invade Israel in the ancient times too, maybe they brought some Jewish captives along with them.



At the time of the establishment of the state of Israel in 1948, there were approximately 140,000–150,000 Jews living in Iran, the historical center of Persian Jewry. Over 85% have since migrated to either Israel or the United States. At the time of the 1979 Islamic Revolution, 80,000 still remained in Iran. From then on, Jewish emigration from Iran dramatically increased, as about 20,000 Jews left within several months after the Islamic Revolution.[38] In mid- and late 1980s, the Jewish population of Iran was estimated at 20,000–30,000. The reports put the figure at around 35,000 in mid-1990s[42] and at less than 40,000 today, with around 25,000 residing in Tehran. However, Iran's Jewish community still remains the largest among the Muslim countries.[43]
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Anyway I don't want to warmonger either so I can rest my case and I will leave it up to you guys who ever you may be to decide what is right in your opinions, I hope that next time you watch the news the picture would be a lot bigger in how you view things out there.

I don't want to get into deeper arguements either on a subject that not even the world powers can sort out so good luck and thanks for reading my posts.

Increase the Knowledge and Peace...



[edit on 14-3-2010 by The time lord]




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