Calling all believers - (God, the devil, UFOs, Dimensional beings, angels, fairies, etc.) - 5 questi

Hey all,

I have a few questions that I'd like to see remedied by those who 'believe'.

As an atheist myself I realise I urinate all over many peoples cultural identities, families, wars, beliefs and hopes on a daily basis. It is however how I see the world and I don't feel anger or hatred towards those who keep their beliefs within their own communities/families. I do however absolutely loathe those who would try to warp the minds of my children with their archaic witchcraft without anything more to present than faith.

As a critical thinker I realise I wouldn't spit on those who believe in magical beings, intelligent visiting aliens, alternate timelines or any other extraordinary claim if they were on fire. Again though I am open to having evidence presented to me to show me that I am incorrect. In fact I would love to see a 'better way' but I believe that's all part of the fairytale fallacy that childhood seems to have promoted upon it.

So in light of the hundreds of threads calling out sceptics I thought I'd bunch you believers all together and see how you like it as well as how you would respond to the same 5 questions each.

Now I realise that those amongst you that are Jewish or Muslim might not like being bundled together - nor those of you who are Catholic or Protestant - but since it seems perfectly acceptable here to put all sceptics together I think it's fine to lump everyone who believes without proof together also. Fair is fair.

I have some questions which apply to anyone who believes without proof - so feel free to stand shoulder to shoulder with everyone who makes a claim that cannot be backed up and state your case

So my 5 questions to those of you who believe are;

1) In spite of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary why do you persist in believing?

2) Do you think pushing your beliefs onto others is a healthy and productive thing to do?

3) Where do your beliefs stop? For example would you kill for your beliefs, steal for your beliefs, lie for your beliefs or stay silent when you could speak up for your beliefs?

4) Is everyone who shares your beliefs perfectly sane and capable of functioning within society? If not how do you differentiate who is capable and who is not?

5) What makes your belief system the number one system above over all others? How do you quantify that you are right and others are wrong?

There are plenty of threads were you can counter the 'sceptics' so pick one of those if you want to attack the premise of questioning belief. Try to keep the answers here within the questions set as best you can.

Thank you all in advance for your answers and please know that I am not against you I am just curious as to how you all work.

-m0r

I didnt bother to read your thread,it might be good but still. The reason why i didnt read it is that you have started the thread abit wrong. You have mixed up things wich are facts with fiction. Ufo\ghosts\aliens ect is a proven FACT,and has nothing to do with belief. They exist even if we humans believe it or not.

When it comes to GOD,fairies ect. That is still fiction. If you dont understand the huge difference between those ,you can learn alot from science\history and even math-

[edit on 13-3-2010 by Archirvion]

Originally posted by Archirvion
I didn't bother to read your thread...You have mixed up things which are facts with fiction. Ufo\ghosts\aliens etc. is a proven FACT,and has nothing to do with belief...

Thanks for playing!!

I did read, paraphrased and then corrected your quote. Not saying that your post isn't worthy of merit - just not from me and certainly not in this thread

-m0r

Originally posted by Archirvion
Ufo\ghosts\aliens ect is a proven FACT

Did I miss a meeting?

I don't understand the point to your thread. Isn't atheism a belief system in itself. I mean not believing in god takes proof as well doesn't it. I'm not trying to disprove your belief but it sounds like you are attacking "believers" when you yourself are a believer.

reply to post by taccj9903


Didn't I point out in the OP that counters to 'scepticism' should be carried out in the many threads made available for just that. I realise putting Roman characters that are next to each other, and then turning them into words and then sentences can be difficult for some people but you've managed to replicate that yourself and respond with an effort at bringing up a point.

Atheism, in at least my case, isn't a belief. It's an absence of belief that any deities exist due to no proof existing to support such claims.

Hit the philosophy boards for answers to whether or not a position of standing based on empirical evidence is a belief system or not.

I've no problem educating people about what I think and would happily do so upon request but this thread asks for a very simple set of protocols to be followed.

Again, I'm not against you here - I'm just looking for actual responses[.s] as oppose to 1st year philosophy questions being needlessly asked.

I hope I have made myself clear and haven't come across as unhappy with you or anything. U2U me if you require further details of my statement here.

-m0r

I has bored too much with notion that Global warming, War on Terrorism, and theory of Evolution are fact while Gods, Aliens, Spirits, Mythical Creatures, Anachronistic Super Advanced technologies, and Anything Pseudoscientific, Paranormal, and Supernatural are Fiction.

[edit on 13-3-2010 by masonicon]

Originally posted by taccj9903
I don't understand the point to your thread. Isn't atheism a belief system in itself. I mean not believing in god takes proof as well doesn't it. I'm not trying to disprove your belief but it sounds like you are attacking "believers" when you yourself are a believer.

Here is my take on your questions:

1) I think the point is to turn the same stupid questions that are pointed at non believers back to believers.

2) Uh...nope, It's like a lazy system. Don't have to believe in squat..period.

3)I have never seen God, the flying spaghetti monster, Santa, or the easter bunny, and frankly that's all the proof I require.

4)I don't think OP was attacking...but I will if you want an example.

I'm agnostic by the way, but I can relate to OP m0r1arty.
I also gotta slap m0r1arty on the back,and submit it as post of the day!
Since we don't have that, how about a little blue star...there is something I can believe in.

reply to post by m0r1arty

Originally posted by m0r1arty
Hey all,


So my 5 questions to those of you who believe are;

1) In spite of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary why do you persist in believing?

2) Do you think pushing your beliefs onto others is a healthy and productive thing to do?

3) Where do your beliefs stop? For example would you kill for your beliefs, steal for your beliefs, lie for your beliefs or stay silent when you could speak up for your beliefs?

4) Is everyone who shares your beliefs perfectly sane and capable of functioning within society? If not how do you differentiate who is capable and who is not?

5) What makes your belief system the number one system above over all others? How do you quantify that you are right and others are wrong?


-m0r

I believe in UFOs

1. Please present your overwhelming evidence that UFOs don't exist.

2. I don't project my beliefs onto others.

3. I would not kill or steal to prove UFOs exist

4. I'm not sure about the sanity or lack thereof of the millions of other people who believe in UFOs.

5. I don't claim my belief in UFOs is a system and therefore I don't claim it is the only one.

And by the way it is spelled realize.

reply to post by m0r1arty

I'm just looking for actual responses

Do you expect to get any?

I see four possible "real" answers:

1) I believe because I was to trained to believe.

2) I believe because I have "a feeling." Emotion does not depend on logic.

3) I believe because I'm unable to conceieve of a world otherwise.

4) They may have evidence you lack. For example, someone who has personally witnessed a UFO, personally experienced the holy spirit, etc.

1) In spite of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary why do you persist in believing?

If the answer is #1, you have a well trained dog. You cannot reason with a dog.

If the answer is #2, the feeling is evidence. And I think it's reasonable that someone might place more weight on a personally experienced feeling than on textbook analysis from some total stranger.

If the answer if #3, all your "overwhelming evidence" doesn't exist in their worldview. You can't reasonably expect them to take it seriously any more than they can expect you to take their feelings that you don't share seriously.

If the answer is #4, then depending on the evidence they have...it's possible they may be asking themselves the same questions you are: why don't you belive in the face of overwhelming evidence?


[edit on 13-3-2010 by LordBucket]

Originally posted by SLaPPiE

Originally posted by taccj9903
I don't understand the point to your thread. Isn't atheism a belief system in itself. I mean not believing in god takes proof as well doesn't it. I'm not trying to disprove your belief but it sounds like you are attacking "believers" when you yourself are a believer.

Here is my take on your questions:

1) I think the point is to turn the same stupid questions that are pointed at non believers back to believers.

2) Uh...nope, It's like a lazy system. Don't have to believe in squat..period.

3)I have never seen God, the flying spaghetti monster, Santa, or the easter bunny, and frankly that's all the proof I require.

4)I don't think OP was attacking...but I will if you want an example.

I'm agnostic by the way, but I can relate to OP m0r1arty.
I also gotta slap m0r1arty on the back,and submit it as post of the day!
Since we don't have that, how about a little blue star...there is something I can believe in.

I am agnostic myself, I just think that not believing is a belief. Not trying to attack anyone here.

Let's see, I am a Christian:

Why do I believe despite the evidence?
There is plenty of historical and archeological FACT that is substantiated, has been found as detailed in Bible, and on display. For instance, the trail of hardened sand that was found in 1990 by US military satellites while searching for Saddam's tanks in Kuwait. Denser items cool slower in the desert night, so the tanks showed up and so did a trail that went from the nacient Land of Goshen to a mountain in Saudi Arabia...not the traditional Mt.Sinai of the Exodus, but the oral and traditional Mountain of God. This was in Nat Geo about 15years ago.
The recently found excavations of Solomon's Temple with markings clearly indicating the Davidic origin as documented in the Bible.
Nineveh was thought to be a mythical city used as a methaphor to illustrate a point in the Bible...until it was found and excavated in the 1880s , just as the Bible described.
There are multiple references and cross references in history...Josephus, Roman documents that confirm Ceasars, battles , proclomations, census taking.... all correspond to the Bible. In theruins of ancient Assyria, tiles that are receipts for transactions are between the citizens and a new arrival of people...the Isakasenni...the Sons of Issac... dated about 700BC...confirming the exile of the 10 tribes from the N. Kingdom of Israel after splitting from the S.Kingdom of Judea.
We could go on, but I'm not writting a book. The historical evidence is quite adequate.

Spiritually, as news events unfold, we see Biblical prophesy unfold...not just ambiguous accounts like "wars and rumours of wars", but news backed accounts. For instance, in Ezekiel38-39, we read of Gog of Magog, Gomer, Toggarmah and his bands, Persia, Lybia, Phut, all coming against a reestablished Israel(Ezek.37) as it stands alone in the world.
The odd names are descendants of Noah's family and where they settled. Gog of Magog according to Josephus of Rome was the land of the Scythians...around the Black Sea and Caspian Sea and the Caucus....the Russians/maybe Syria, Gomer is Turkey, who until this past year was strongly allied with the west, but has lately been moving more to the Muslim/Arab states and even signed agreements with Persia...Iran. Toggarmah and bands is the little -akistan countries...all Muslim. Of course Lybia is still here, and Phut is E.Africa...Somalia, Ethiopia...both showing growing ties to Iran.
These countries last year joined together in the CSTO, Collective Security Treaty Organization, based on NATO. They are building military-economic ties and building bases and armies and navies. Russia is building a naval base in Syria.
Israel continues to be isolated more and more diplomatically, in fact, relations with the US are at their lowest in some time. Germany for the last 10 years has been the biggest supplier of weapons to Israel.
Lastly, what is going to happen when Israel attacks Iran(Persia). Syria along with all the other members of CSTO will retalliate...from the North and East...including Russia. Just like Ezekiel 38-39.

Oh, by the way...the Bible describes a 200,000,000 man army of the Kings of the East...China..has a reserve army of....200,000,000. In Revelation, they will strike west across a dried up Euphrates. This past year the Euphrates river was dry...first time ever Iraqi farmers had to import rice.

Why do we, as Christians, need to spread the word?
We are asked to do so by Jesus... to be "fishers of men." Now, that doesn't mean I hit you on the head with a Bible and tell you that you will go to Hell if you don't believe like me. It does mean that like a fisher, I invite you to my church...I invite you to a function..like a baseball gameor church dinner...or a mission trip and project...or we actually come and fix your porch..or donate some items you need. If you say Thank You, but no thank you...ok. No big deal.

TRUE Christians of the TRUE Church, love all people, we try not to condemn or hurt or push away anyone. We try to help all and are open to all...no matter of color or background. We simply love and hope to offer the peace and joy we have found.

I've writtten too much and now breakfast is ready so I must depart...hope you find what you are looking for. God Bless You.

You are the one that brought up the questions, please give the evidence that UFOs don't exist. What did your 1st question say? If you are going to post a thread then back up your questions and show me the proof instead of being childish.

Originally posted by m0r1arty

1) In spite of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary why do you persist in believing?

Well the many things I believe I have researched on my own and the "proof" I find along with personal experiences is all I need to believe. I have seen UFOs, now whether they are ET piloted is something I dont know for sure, since I have never seen an alien. I believe in ghosts because I have seen them and experienced ghostly activities. I believe 9/11 was an inside job and I believe many things from our history are lies and many things are being kept from us.

2) Do you think pushing your beliefs onto others is a healthy and productive thing to do?

I dont push my beliefs on anyone. They are my beliefs and people should think on their own and do their own research into subjects. I never rely on what others "tell" me. If someone asks about what I believe I tell them what I believe and let them go from there on their own. I dont like when people push their beliefs on me so I wont do it to someone else. IM it's not good to push others to believe what you believe.

3) Where do your beliefs stop? For example would you kill for your beliefs, steal for your beliefs, lie for your beliefs or stay silent when you could speak up for your beliefs?

Well all these are very dependent on the belief and the situation. I do speak up on my beliefs but I try not to force it on the people I speak up to. Now if I had a video of a UFO or something like that. I would show everyone and makes lots of copies. If I had total proof of something yes I would speak out. I am not afraid to speak my mind...I wouldnt lie because that would make anything I say afterwards possibly seem false...I would be discredited by lying and that helps nobody. As for killing, there isnt anything I can think of that I believe in that would justify killing another unless it was self defense. Stealing, again I dont think there is any reason for me to steal for my beliefs.

4) Is everyone who shares your beliefs perfectly sane and capable of functioning within society? If not how do you differentiate who is capable and who is not?

Well most people I know with my beliefs seem fine to me, but then again it depends on what your definition of "sane" and "capable" are. Heck I have friends who think I am insane for what I believe but that is their view of insane.

5) What makes your belief system the number one system above over all others? How do you quantify that you are right and others are wrong?

Well I dont believe mine is the number one system above all. I could be 100% wrong, you never know. Now when it comes to UFOs I am a little more firm on my beliefs because I have seen them with my own eyes...and by definition and UFO is an unidentified flying object. It doesnt say ET piloted or human, just "unidentified." I have seen things in the sky that cant be identified as the typical craft we see or other things that are mistaken for as UFO's. Whenever I heard or read about something that cant be explained I do my own research that way I have a better understanding of the situation myself.





S&F good thread

There are plenty of threads were you can counter the 'sceptics' so pick one of those if you want to attack the premise of questioning belief. Try to keep the answers here within the questions set as best you can.

Thank you all in advance for your answers and please know that I am not against you I am just curious as to how you all work.

-m0r

reply to post by AlreadyGone


Star for you my friend - I wish I could give more.

I completely disagree with you and think you deflected all the questions after number #1 but I do like how you gave a detailed account and backed it up with information which can be (and has been) researched.

I would still like to know why your belief tops all other beliefs though - what makes you right and every other belief wrong?

-m0r

reply to post by taccj9903


You make the claims they do exist - I don't have to supply squat to your worldview that they don't.

You want to sing a happy song of UFOs then provide actual evidence - otherwise I'm not going to show evidence against Santa Claus, Bába-Yəgá or Superman - because you know what? I don't have time to spend all day fostering someone's childish fantasies.

-m0r

first, id like to say, i dont believe in god, i am however open minded enough to think there maybe some sort of super inteligence out there, but im sitting on the fence.
I believe there is more to the whole alien thing then the official story. I also believe we have far more advanced tech (propulsion, energy, weapons etc...) then we are told.
now, onto your questions


1) In spite of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary why do you persist in believing?

A) there isnt any overwhelming evidence to the contrary in my opinion, there is as much for as against as far as im concerned


2) Do you think pushing your beliefs onto others is a healthy and productive thing to do?

A)I dont push my beliefs onto others, if asked i give an opinion, or sometimes poitn out certain things i dont agree with when they come up.

3) Where do your beliefs stop? For example would you kill for your beliefs, steal for your beliefs, lie for your beliefs or stay silent when you could speak up for your beliefs?

A)no, i wouldnt kill for my beliefs, i would kill to protect me and mine, thats about it, and i dont lie for my beliefs either, that makes me as bad as those in power i believe to lieing through thier teeth.

4) Is everyone who shares your beliefs perfectly sane and capable of functioning within society? If not how do you differentiate who is capable and who is not?

A) Cant answer reguarding sanity, chances are, there are a few loonies runnign around, and judging by some of the 'stories' we hear, thats a fair bet

5) What makes your belief system the number one system above over all others? How do you quantify that you are right and others are wrong?

A)Its not the number one above all others, its my belief, its a personal thing.

hope that helped

Breakfast as done, now to finsh your questions and finsih my reply from above...literally and metaphorically,...LOL.

I would not steal or kill for my beliefs...I would die.

Is Chritianity the best...like a football team or a NASCAR racer...we da best?

I believe so, but I am a Christian. I'll leave that to you...and your search for peace. I was once told that Christianity and salvation is like the Super Bowl....you have a ticket..i.e. an invitation. It's up to you to take it and be there.

reply to post by mblahnikluver


Cheers mblahnikluver that was a very informed and reflective post!

I did keep the 9/11 thing out of the title because there is evidence to suggest that alternate theories from the official story could be true. Again; evidence is everything to me and I won't discount anything that has evidence which doesn't fit in with my worldview.

Also I applaud you for accepting that the UFOs which you saw could very well be terrestrial - nothing wrong with seeing something and not granting it some sort of unprovable creditation.

A perfect example of a post which I would star (which I have) and I hope you find more information which keep you as agile as you currently appear.

-m0r