Heaven=Eve Earth=Adam

I saw the OP use "Elohim" and instantly thought "[SNIP]".
Heaven = Eve
Earth = Adam

[SNIP]

The bible states Eve was tempted in the garden, and ate the forbidden fruit.
So you're telling me Heaven was tempted, and ate the forbidden fruit?
[SNIP]

Mod Note: Please review this link: Courtesy Is Mandatory

[edit on 3/15/2010 by TheRedneck]

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


What about the mother LILUTH????
ADAMS FIRST WIFE WRITTIN IN THE BOOK OF TOBIT???? WHAT IS SHE THE SUN!!!!!!!!SMH



[edit on 3/15/10 by Ophiuchus 13]

So we're not allowed to express ourselves on here anymore, without the Nazist admin controlling our speech?

I'm done with this website.

reply to post by PublicDefenseCorp


Oh you didn't even get taxed for points. Don't snivel. You signed an agreement pardner.

OP I also only seem to be following part of what you're saying.

Is it that mankind is born of earth and sky. Still confused.

[edit on 15-3-2010 by randyvs]

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


Seeing as how the Hebrews plagiarized many older Myths (Sumerian, Egyptian, etc.) to write their Torah, there's no end to the possibilities for the original meaning of the stories. It's a hodge-podge of all the neighboring myths slammed into a confusing, contradicting source that for some reason holds the basis for the three biggest religions today. lame.

Here are some brief Clarifications for newbies to modern Biblical Source Criticism of the Jewish Scriptures -- we've sure come a long way from the days of Graf-Wellhausen..!!

The Book of Genesis houses 2 (read em: TWO) Separate Creation Myths in unpointed PaleoHebrew (NO VOWELS) both with a different vocabuary, linguistic poetical style, word spelling, sentence length, grammar, syntax, word order, name of the god, Weltanschauung ('world view') and actual content.

Creation Myth #1 (Gen 1:1 to 2:4a & 5:1-2) = creator = ELOHIM
Creation Myth #2 (Gen 2:4b - 4:26) = creator is YHWH ELOHIM

The first creation Myth of the Jews in Genesis seems to be derived from Babylonian sources (Tehom sounds like Tiamat, the Babylonian Chaos Goddess and there are other parallels) and uses an 'Babylonian' accent related to the scribes who penned the Scroll of the Book of the Prophet Hezekiel (c. 540 BCE), and is known as the Priestly Account (P), found in Gen chapter 1:1 to 2:4a and magically re-appears in Gen 5:1-2 and later here and there. Since the name of the god is ELOHIM (plural of the fem. goddess Eloah, found in portical sections of all that difficult early Elamite Hebrew found in in Job chapters 3-48, but NOT in the prose sections of Job chapters 1 & 2 however) - The P writer(s) use ELOHIM for the god until the Burning Bush, then he is called YHWH, but his distinctive vocabulary is maintained throughout.

Ezra the scribe apparently was faced c. 450BCE with a lot of different traditions of the Hebrew priests (some of whom were returning from a 100 year Exile in Babylon who had just been run over by Persia, and sent home - only 20% came back though..the rest stayed in their New Jobs abroad where there was a better life...) and had to merge a bunch of contradictory myths into a single narrative (but it is hardly single - the two myths of creation for example contradict each other in at least a dozen places).

The second Creation Myth begins at Gen 2:4b and extends to the end of Gen chapter4:26 (where we read of YHWH Elohim FORMING Adam out of mud and 'breathing into his nostrils the breath of life' etc. and then forming the animals out of even more mud to bring to Adam for a mate, but since no mate could be found, YHWH Elohim forms Hayyah-Havvah our of his side..and then the familiar story of the Talking Snake &tc. This source uses YHWH Elohim (Jaweh-EL) so is called the J source

In the 1st myth (P), MALE AND FEMALE are both created (Heb 'bara' means make from Zero, not formed from mud or anything pre-existent) together on the so called 6th Day i.e. at the very end of Elohim's creation exercise - e.g. in the Day in which Elohim created ADAM, Male AND Female created he them AND HE CALLED THEIR NAME ADAM (Gen 5:2) and he blessed them. There is not Havvah ('gossippy' since she can talk to snakes,)r Hayyah (as it must have been originally, i.e. 'life') that we see with the Rib Thingy in the CONTRADICTORY 2nd Creation Myth where Adam is created FIRST then the animals, and the Eve-Woman last of all, where she immediately gets herself in trouble and leads to the Fall of Man etc.

When reading these two Creation Myths, Rule #1 - highlight in one colour of highlighter the text of Gen 1:1 - 2:4a (1st half of chapter 2 v: 4) and also Gen 5:1-2 and get ANOTHER Colour highlighter for Gen 2:4b to 4:26 so that you HAVE TWO SEPARATE BLOCKS of MYTH MAKING...

When you SEE the TWO BLOCKS, you can read each separately and THEN (and only then) will most people BEGIN to SEE all the DIFFERENCES in the CONTENT of these TWO MYTHS - anyone who actively denies that there are TWO creation myths in Genesis is

a. Unable to look at this complex material critically for differences in content, language, theology, meaning, &tc. with an open mind and/or a clear head

b. Willfully NOT looking critically at the evidence (the most 'believers' category) since 'god wrote it, that settles it'...

c. a Liar (some church and synagogue clerics who know better but hide the facts from their sheeple paying their salaries)

A good and worthwhile INTRO to these little matters (under the category: Things My Rabbi and/or Priest-Minister Never share with their Congregations) is a book called: WHO WROTE THE BIBLE? By Richard Elliott Friedman, a student of the great Frank Cross of Harvard (1989, ISBN # 0-06-097214-9 published by Summit Books (=Simon & Schuster) in paperback - I believe there are cheap copies available on Amazon.com.

I found the book a little over-simplified and jejune in places (well, it helps to have a Theology Degree), but my Aunt had to read it THREE times to get even the BASIC information under her belt.

She should try reading Graf-Wellhausen in the original German ! That was a real shocker to my system...anything in English after that was a breeze..

But even if any of you have to read the Friedman book two or three times, it will get your head around the major issues pertaining to Ezra's reforms of the Aleph-Beth in c. 440 BCE and all the combination of older material that was at his disposal to EDIT/REDACT after the Babylonian Exile (BCE 587 to BCE c. 531) when the Torah was formed very closely into the rough shape it exists today (new alpeh-beth and all).

The point is, unless you understand JEPD Form and Source Criticism of the Torah, you are groping in the dark about the text in front of you.

Another helpful read is the Anchor Bible Series' book by Joseph Blenkinsopp THE PENTATEUCH: An Introduction to the First Five Books of the Bible, published in the early 1980s but still remarkably valid reading for the beginner to these little matters. I believe this also is available in paperback...

I mean, why grope around in the dark if you don't have to?

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic

These are the generations of Heaven and Earth when they were created; in the day that the Jahveh Elohim made the Earth and the Heavens.

God explains how the Earth is Adam (which means red ocre clay) and Eve (which means life (-forms) i general)

In the beginning God created Eve and Adam, Life and Matter.

Why has this been hidden in our translations? Go debate:--->

OK so this is what I'm getting.

Adam and Eve are only metaphors for earth and heaven, they aren't actual humans. Adam represents the Earth, and Eve represents the heavens, and humans were born out of a union between "Adam" and "Eve." Humans are a combination of earth and heaven, of animal and god, which makes sense considering we have animalistic instincts as well as the power to reason, a power that all other animals do not have.

So this would mean that Adam and Eve were not actually the first humans because they are only metaphors, so it would change the entire concept of the Bible's Creation Story as we know it, and that is why it would be hidden in our translations.

My only issue with this is that "Eve" is made out of "Adam." God "takes a rib out of Adam's body and makes Eve." Since Eve is made from Adam, that would mean heaven was made out of Earth, which goes against my intuition at the moment.

But all in all interesting concept OP.

*edit: spellign errors+I am assuming that everyone agrees that the power to reason is a godly power not an animalistic instinct.

[edit on 15-3-2010 by Wang Tang]

reply to post by Arcane Demesne


Noone plagiarised aniwon, we all share the same esoteric history. It all comes down to Thoth, alchemy, hermeticism, sufi, the vedas and kabalah. Genesis is a compendium of our collective memory.

reply to post by Sigismundus


What is your response to my claim that the word Tsela is identical to Lat. cella? Both words originally seems to mean an enclosed room of many in a great building, like a temple? The reading 'rib' is as far as I can see from tracing these words in litterature -- all my notes were burnt in a crazy frenzie, so I'd have to re-research to bring back my initial research on this, though, hey, I even found an ancient Egyptian word of much the same pronounciation and an ancient Persian word, traceable back to proto-indo-european, of much the same semantic meaning closing the etymology to something I believe may mean bubble or similar in semantics to whatever God filled "the shameful wound -- down there" with as something having to do with an enclosed small space in modern tongue.... ???

reply to post by Wang Tang


The river runs both ways. The human part is walking upstream, while the cosmos ride the waves so to speak....

reply to post by Wang Tang


And while Earth is symbolic to Adam, Heaven represents Life, as Life (Eve) came from the Heavens, or was created by gods coming from deep space

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic

You are reading way too much into this. Adam and Eve were both made out of the ground from the Earth. They were nothing until God made them. Eve is not heavens nor is Adam Earth. The heavens means the universe not some magical garden.

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
reply to post by IntastellaBurst

 

You said it man!

In the beginning God created Heaven and Earth, and the next chapter, God's generations of Heaven and Earth is explained.

Exactly like the Egyptian story of Geb (Earth - Adam) and Nut (Heaven - Eve)

[edit on 12/3/2010 by Neo Christian Mystic]

I, for one, understand completely and it makes total sense. its like you just put a missing piece into the puzzle for me.

thanks!!

Originally posted by Equinox99
reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic

You are reading way too much into this. Adam and Eve were both made out of the ground from the Earth. They were nothing until God made them. Eve is not heavens nor is Adam Earth. The heavens means the universe not some magical garden.

Now isn't that reading too little into it? No figure of red clay can actually go live. Unless you'd have technology to scan the clay soul into a mammal built so thoroughly mathmatically perfect so that the human hand can create every living creature from clay without tools. We ARE created, no worry about that. But the only clay in me is what built the furnace around my soul. Adam is dead. His soul is crushed, and though the pieces of it still exist somewhere, we'd need to melt the Great Pyramid to find the sarcofaggees of Adam Eve and poor brother of Man's Godgiven son, Abel.

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
reply to post by Arcane Demesne

 

Noone plagiarised aniwon, we all share the same esoteric history. It all comes down to Thoth, alchemy, hermeticism, sufi, the vedas and kabalah. Genesis is a compendium of our collective memory.

Not my collective memory. I want no part of that.

And yes, it was plagiarized. That's what it is called when someone writes something, then later on someone else copies it and doesn't give credit for their original source.

Originally posted by Arcane Demesne

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
reply to post by Arcane Demesne

 

I, NCM, wrote--> Noone plagiarised aniwon, we all share the same esoteric history. It all comes down to Thoth, alchemy, hermeticism, sufi, the vedas and kabalah. Genesis is a compendium of our collective memory.

Not my collective memory. I want no part of that.

Part of the concept of a collective memory is that it belongs to mankind's history. You can deny the Holocost for instance, or the French revolution, but it doesn't mean it doesn't belong to our common memory. History.

And yes, it was plagiarized. That's what it is called when someone writes something, then later on someone else copies it and doesn't give credit for their original source.

Very different stories, with the same theme, a seemingly historic event, discribing a world cataclysm which demolished ancient civilisations and killed off most life on earth found in stories from Mesopotamia, Indus, Egypt, among the Hebrews and even in the Americas, with the Inkas in South to the Hopi in the North. Are you claiming all these are plagiarising eachother? My guess is that if you'd put lawyers on this it would cost you eneormously ammounts of money and the result would be loss in the losing in court type....

This is the most retarded thing i have read where do you all get this from. I know its not the bible due to the fact mans not earth and eve is not heaven. Eve is below man in all versons of the bible not above. crazy people come up with something taht has some support other then madness

reply to post by lightningz


Just like Nut wasn't Heaven and Geb wasn't the Earth and Ra wasn't the Sun etc? Adam means "Earth" in the form of "Red Ochre Clay" and in effect "Man". Eve, or Shevah means "Life" and may indeed also mean "Heaven". As if Life came from Heaven to become one with Earth which was formed into Adam/Man with "Red Ochre Clay". This is semantic etymology, the science of words, their origins and their semantic meaning. You can't deny it unless you can disproove that linguistics are wrong. Simple as that!

reply to post by double_frick


Finally someone who believes or for that matter, understands, since we are talking science here actually, the science of linguistics, language with it's etymology and also comparative cultural research into ancient religion. Of course people would rather have what they are served without having to look further into it than what's served on the silver platter. But things are waaay more complicated in it's simplicity. Just like Man may mean both "man", "husbond" and "humanity" in English, Adam means a lot of stuff in Hebrew. And when you look into it, the stories of Genesis are like a compendium of all ancient religions with sources in Egypt and the stories of Hu-Hu, Thoth, As-Ar and Geb and Nut etc.