evolution beats creationism 10 to 3 and thats generous

reply to post by randyvs


well i wouldn't say i have doubts and the post doesn't apply to me because me and you have different lifestyles i don't believe what you do

but maybe both you and me can agree on something which is what i was trying to express earleir without starting a ruckus and that is the age old saying

"practice what you preach"

good day


[edit on 20-3-2010 by ashanu90]

i saw something once on the sciencae channel if i remember i'll link a post to it later
it said that time gos at random speeds naot a straight line that is why our perceptaion of time is often distorted.

most people don't think anything of it
but yes perception of time is also in your head when you wait on something time is slower and when you enjoy yourself time is fast hence time flys when your having fun

however it is in your mind and it is a natural phenomena

anyway eternity simply is an imaginary concept because one day time will "stop" so to speak or rather time and matter will decay as will matter
and when that happens matter will begin to decay as well

however we live in the golden age of time and we will be in it for quite a while none of you will witness the end of time in your lifetime the human race may well be long dead and gone by the 'time' that that happens

what i am saying is if this is true and im not saying it is, then the concept of god is also impossible since he is 'eternal'

any thoughts on this matter?

reply to post by ashanu90

You would have been more correct to say, "We live a micro-second of the golden age".
2nd Peter 3:10 The heavens will pass away with a great noise. the earth also and the works there in.

1st Timothy 6:16
The Lord only hath immortality.

The Bible is way ahead of you friend. Yes, the universe is in a stste of decay. He is offering us the same immortality.

Also you only assume I've responded in defense of my beliefs. That hardly
makes it so.

Good day to be alive Sir. Good day to be alive, he said.



[edit on 20-3-2010 by randyvs]

Creationism and intelligent design make perfect sense . . . Right!

Take nipples on men. They serve no purpose what so ever. They are a design mistake and a sure sign of an amateur design student that doesn't know what they are doing. Why would God give Adam nipples? Yep. Intelligent Design for sure.

Originally posted by Terapin
Creationism and intelligent design make perfect sense . . . Right!

Take nipples on men. They serve no purpose what so ever. They are a design mistake and a sure sign of an amateur design student that doesn't know what they are doing. Why would God give Adam nipples? Yep. Intelligent Design for sure.

i like that. you have a good point. nipples on men are a bit pointless i think

reply to post by ashanu90


Yep. When the religious folks start yammering about Intelligent design, nipples on men tends to stop them in their tracks. Evolution has a logical answer for it. but if God is so all powerful and all knowing, then he would not be such a poor design student to have given Adam nipples.

Heck Even the Vatican has embraced the findings of evolutionary scientists. Evolution and religion do not have to oppose each other. If you wish, God created the spark and evolution did the rest.

Originally posted by Terapin
Creationism and intelligent design make perfect sense . . . Right!

Take nipples on men. They serve no purpose what so ever. They are a design mistake and a sure sign of an amateur design student that doesn't know what they are doing. Why would God give Adam nipples? Yep. Intelligent Design for sure.

Believe it or not, nipples on a man is an attractive trait anyway, so there is some purpose.

Plus I think in the womb, at one stage we were neither male or female. So it stays there from that stage.

And who says evolution is not part of gods way of creation. I havent seen any laws set in stone in full deatil onhow god created humans in such detail.

I am not christian, but evolution surley does not prove that god does not exist.

[edit on 21-3-2010 by _Phoenix_]

I never stated that Evolution proves that god does not exist. This is a discussion about those who believe that evolution does not exist. There are those who believe that everything exists in the state that god created it in, and that nothing ever changes. That things do not evolve. This is rubbish as we have seen things evolve in our lifetimes. Take the flu virus for example, it evolves at a rapid pace.

Evolution is already ingrained in the DNA of even the most primitive creature.
Its a continuous gradual process not some freak mutation.

Please read DAN WINTER's articles if you really want to understand evolution !

Now where did this all inclusive DNA with the highest potential come in even the most primitive of insects,

the only answer is Creationism !!!

reply to post by ENKIJI


That is a bit simplistic. Just because you can not understand the science behind it, does not make it magic. Or perhaps for you it does.

You can learn more about how DNA came into being by actually reading about it. Or you can ignore the science and stick to the Bible, believing in people being turned into pillars of Salt. Either is OK, but trying to pretend that DNA could not have come about without being magically created by god is simply choosing ignorance. If you choose not to learn, then you do yourself a disservice.

This simple book can get you started on the basic science behind the origins of DNA:
The Evolution of DNA

As for Dan Winters . . . he is a proven Charlatan, convicted of fraud, who fled the country to avoid being held responsible for his crimes. He lies about his university degrees, which he does not have being a drop out, and is also guilty of plagiarism. You would be a fool to listen to his unbalanced and unscientific ravings. Advisory regarding Dan Winters


[edit on 21/3/10 by Terapin]

yeah i'm just not seeing the plausibility of the bibke i've heard so many different things about it

earlier someone said that the bible has been constantly changed and/or it has been passed down orally and things have been lost, forgotten, exageraeted and even made up

and another thing i found was apparently the roman emporer wrote the bible and changed/twisted around the original stories teachings etc, to fit his ideology and make it easier for people to be controlled. apparently emporer constantine started the catholic church or something to that effect.


it can be found in a thread labeled "The Great Lie is John 3:16"
i don't know how to make a link to threads so you will just have to search for it if your interested

so if either or both are true, then how does anyone know what part to follow and believe? so why follow any of it? what's the point?


edmc has found many ways to back up creationism, and i respect his opinion but i don't agree and i'm not convinced

but anyway there are apparently alot of people investing their entire lives in a lie

i'm expecting a smart ass/witty/contradictory statement from randys any moment. everyone protect yourselves with your bannanas! and don't tell him where they have been!! lol just joking around randys

[edit on 21-3-2010 by ashanu90]

[edit on 21-3-2010 by ashanu90]

[edit on 21-3-2010 by ashanu90]

reply to post by randyvs


how would there be immortality if eternity cannot be?

Hi Ashanu90,
While I’m still waiting for a reply to my questions, I’d like to take a stab at the interesting thought that you’ve raised about the concept of “eternity, God and immortality”.

You said that “time” is a “perception” in our “head” and since it’s possible that “one day time will "stop" then the concept of god is also impossible since he is 'eternal'. I hope I didn’t get it scrambled.

Anyway, here’s what I know from studying the Bible, (true) science and nature/creation.

First your statement “yes perception of time is also in your head” is true. I totally agree with that. In fact we are the only creature that can perceive time. Any idea why is that so? Can you think of any reason from evolution’s point of view why we are the only ones who have the concept of time?

From a biblical point of view – the answer is very clear, because the Creator Himself, Jehovah God “has planted eternity in men’s hearts.” (Ecclesiastes 3:11, The Amplified Bible).

As a result, humans not only desire to live indefinitely but also have the potential to remain busy and productive forever. Think about it, if our body has the capability to live longer - say 900+ or more! Think of the many things we can achieve. Think of great men of arts and sciences – their achievements. There seems to be no limit to a person’s capacity to learn. Unlike animals, we have creative minds capable of reasoning and understanding abstract concepts. Scientists have barely scratched the surface when it comes to understanding the potential of the human brain.
But is living forever just a pipe dream, an unreality? It is if you believe in evolution. But there are sound basis scripturally, scientifically and logically.
Ponder upon this, would it be a loving act for a father to tell his son that he is going to buy him a bike yet have no intention of fulfilling it? Of course not! A loving parent won’t do such a thing and the same thing is true with the loving heavenly Father. He will fulfill what He intended for mankind – soon! Here’s a promised:

John 3:16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.”

Consider this too; neuroscientists (The Franklin Institute’s Center for Innovation in Science Learning) have recently learned that: “The human brain is able to continually adapt and rewire itself. Even in old age, it can grow new neurons. Severe mental decline is usually caused by disease, whereas most age-related losses in memory or motor skills simply result from inactivity and a lack of mental exercise and stimulation.”
In other words, if we could keep the brain intellectually stimulated and free from disease, it could keep working indefinitely. “‘The brain,’ declares molecular biologist James Watson, co-discoverer of the physical structure of DNA, ‘is the most complex thing we have yet discovered in our universe.’”
Does it seem logical that although endowed with such potential, humans should live just a few decades while trees such as the sequoia or the tortoise can live for a thousand years?
This sounds as unreasonable also as using a powerful locomotive with a long train of freight cars to transport a grain of sand across a distance of just a few inches! Why, then, does mankind have such an enormous capacity for creative thought and learning? Could it be that humans, unlike animals, are not supposed to die at all—that they were created to live forever?
Thus, the fact that we have an inborn desire to live and an enormous capacity to learn leads to a logical conclusion: Humans are designed to live much longer than a mere 70 or 80 years. This, in turn, leads us to another conclusion: There must be a Designer, a Creator, a God. The immutable laws of the physical universe and the unfathomable complexity of life on earth fully support belief in the existence of a Creator.

Next our DNA shows (de)signs of eternity.

reply to post by edmc^2


Correction. Humans are not at all the only species that can perceive time. You are quite incorrect on that. Orangutans for example know the difference between past, present and future. They can plan for future events and can remember events that happened in the past and can tell the difference between the two. I know this from personal experience as I have worked with semi wild orangutans in Indonesia and they are very smart indeed. This is true for a wide number of species, although the Great Apes have the ability to understand time in a significant capacity. They remember past events and can describe them. (Those whom have been taught sign language.) Michael, a gorilla who lived with Koko perhaps the most famous signing gorilla, talked about when it's mother was captured and killed by poachers. It was a traumatic event in the past that it well remembered. Many animals can plan ahead, and can remember past events. Humans are not unique in this capacity by any means.

The direction of time is not simply something that is in the human brain, it is an aspect of physics that reflects the physical world we live in. I had a dog that knew when I would return home from school each day and was always waiting by the door for me. It knew the time and could predict my return. Evidence of knowledge of Past, Present and Future. Many species reflect the knowledge of time in such a manner.

As for the ability of the human brain to rewire itself, that is not new knowledge. While we continue to learn more about the capacity of the human body, we have known about the brains amazing flexibility and recuperative potential for quite some time.

A tortoise does not live for thousands of years. No animal does.

Your conclusions are somewhat based on a lack of understanding. You jump to the conclusion that there MUST be a designer when you do not understand the natural process behind things. It is totally acceptable to have your own personal beliefs, but your logic is suspect.

The human body breaks down not simply due to disease or lack of use, as you suggested, but due to the fact that it is not designed to last for ever. Like an appliance, the human body does indeed have a lifespan and then it begins to wear out. Rust creeps in and systems begin to fail. Take teeth for example. Teeth simply wear out. Humans do not have replaceable teeth the way Sharks do. Sharks get new teeth all the time while we get two sets and that is it. When they wear down we do not get replacements. Teeth do indeed wear down, and you can generally date a persons age by the condition of their teeth, taking into account their diet. If we lived forever, we would all need dentures. Rodents have teeth that do not stop growing. They need to chew all the time to survive as their teeth are their number one tools, so nature has given them teeth that keep growing non stop. Squirrels can chew on branches and nuts all day, and not have to worry about wearing their teeth down to stubs. Humans do not have that luxury.

Joints wear out from years of use. Hearing deteriorates as the system wears out, Eyes become less flexible and the ability to focus diminishes over time. This is not disease or lack of use, it is wear and tear on the system. These and many other signs of the system wearing out is what we call old age. Just like the tires on your car need replacement over time from wear an tear, the human body also wears out and we do not get replacements. We are not designed to live forever by any means.

As for intelligent design . . . explain nipples on men. They serve no useful purpose and any first year design student would not have placed them on Adam. When you consider that Adam came BEFORE God even thought about Eve, they make even less sense. In terms of evolution they make logical sense, but not if you were designing a single individual from scratch. Why do we have such a fragile appendix? An intelligent design would have made it more robust and less likely to rupture poisoning us to death. Why do people go bald? An intelligent design would have given us hair that lasted, but many people start to go bald in their late teens and early twenties, and not just in old age. I could go on and on about how the body ages and wears out and has design defects, but I guess you get the point.

[edit on 23/3/10 by Terapin]

[edit on 23/3/10 by Terapin]

Yep. When the religious folks start yammering about Intelligent design, nipples on men tends to stop them in their tracks. Evolution has a logical answer for it. but if God is so all powerful and all knowing, then he would not be such a poor design student to have given Adam nipples

reply to post by Terapin


Nipples on men are a design flaw? Your serious! No shame to your game that's for sure. I almost want to feel sorry for anyone who thinks a Ken doll
would be a better design.

I never thought I would have to say this , but I am so glad God gave me nipples. I love my Nipples. I'm even glad you brought it to my attention cause I have never thanked God for not creating me
to look like a Ken doll. In fact, I'm going to spend a full hour praying to him
thanking him for for having the forsight to give me my wonderful nipples.

This is as close as I have ever come on this site to straight out calling someone an Idiot. I just asked my wife if she would prefer me without nipples and she said, " Oh my God what?". She made me get up so she
could read that for herself. You are going to be the joke around here for quite sometime. That is so lame, I wouldn't ever say that anywhere if I were you. It really is stupid .

Assu

i'm expecting a smart ass/witty/contradictory statement from randys any moment. everyone

Thanks for the compliment . I decided not to let you down. The nipple thing was just to tempting. If only diaperpin were just using that in provocation. This wouldn't be my last post to this thread. The fact that he/she was serious. That just sent it way over the
top. Beyond anything I can imagine.

Continue though please.

[edit on 23-3-2010 by randyvs]

Originally posted by Terapin
reply to post by edmc^2

 

Correction. Humans are not at all the only species that can perceive time. You are incorrect on that. Orangutans for example know the difference between past, present and future. They can plan for future events and can remember events that happened in the past and can tell the difference between the two. I know this from personal experience as I have worked with semi wild orangutans and they are very smart. This is true for a wide number of species, although the Great Apes have the ability to understand time in a significant capacity. They remember past events and can describe them. (Those whom have been taught sign language.) Michael, a gorilla who lived with Koko perhaps the most famous signing gorilla, talked about when it's mother was captured and killed by poachers. It was a traumatic event in the past that it well remembered. Many animals can plan ahead, and can remember past events. Humans are not unique in this capacity by any means.

The direction of time is not simply something that is in the human brain, it is an aspect of physics that reflects the physical world we live in. I had a dog that knew when I would return home from school each day and was always waiting by the door for me. It knew the time and could predict my return. Evidence of knowledge of Past, Present and Future.

As for the ability of the human brain to rewire itself, that is not new knowledge. While we continue to learn more about the capacity of the human body, we have known about the brains amazing flexibility and recuperative potential for quite some time.

Terapin, my apologies but you made me laugh, anyway - I'll just leave you this:

Instinctively wise and learned traits.

Here's a scripture for you if you are interested in knowing it's meaning let me know.

"There are four things that are the smallest of the earth, but they are instinctively wise: the ants are a people not strong, and yet in the summer they prepare their food; the rock badgers are a people not mighty, and yet upon a crag is where they put their house; the locusts have no king, and yet they go forth all of them divided into groups; the gecko lizard takes hold with its own hands and it is in the grand palace of a king"
Proverbs 30:25-28

...gotta go..

reply to post by edmc^2


You are a fool if you think that animals can not learn and that it is all instinct. They do indeed learn and it is not all ants and grasshoppers. Is it instinct for a gorilla to be able to learn sign language and express it's ideas to us.??? What about your comment that ONLY humans were aware of time? It simply is not true. I have worked with a wide variety of animals around the globe and I well know the difference between Instinct and the capacity to learn. This is particularly interesting when it comes to the Great Apes. We share a great number of evolved behaviors in common with them, and we both share the capacity to learn new things, not simply instinctual behaviors. Perhaps you would like to clarify your indication that it is all instinct and animals do not learn.

I have read the Bible, cover to cover and know it well. I do not stick my head in the sand however and ignore reality.



[edit on 23/3/10 by Terapin]

reply to post by Terapin


One last reply to show you how ignorant you really are.

If the wife dies the baby won't starve because God has thought of evrything.
You walked into that one with your face sticking out.

[edit on 23-3-2010 by randyvs]

reply to post by randyvs


I did not invent the Nipples thing. It is a commonly used theme when talking about Intelligent design. Take a look online and you will see. Why have an organ that does not function, and is not meant to function? Sure, they are pleasurable, look just fine, but they do not work as designed. They are designed in a form to be a conduit for nutrients, but do not produce any. If they were just for appearance sake why then have all the minute internal details that add nothing to their function? Male nipples are not vestigial. They're full-sized and fully equipped with blood vessels, nerves, and all the usual appurtenances of functioning organs, but they do not function under normal conditions. These internal details serve no purpose. They have nothing to do with any pleasure derived, nor do they have anything to do with appearance as they are internal details.

It is like Ostrich and wings. They have them but they do not work. Evolution explains this, but intelligent design? According to Intelligent Design everything was created in it's current design and did not evolve over time. If Adam was the first being created, why give him nipples? HE did not need them to feed offspring. Adam was lonely and asked god for a companion and it makes sense for Eve to have all the functioning details, but why do men have more than the outer details when it comes to nipples? There was never a time when man was designed to feed offspring, but men have the potential capability due to the internal design of the organs.

reply to post by randyvs


When was the last time you knew about a man whos wife died and he began feeding the baby with his own breast milk???? When??? Name a few. Any of your friends? Anyone in your Church? Anyone famous we know about? There are many many single fathers, but I do not know of any man who suddenly begins to lactate. It can indeed happen, but it is a very rare occurrence and not at all common.
Many babies around the world starve to death when their mother dies and the father can not feed them. Intelligent Design??

From outside source:.

MEN: Would you breastfeed your (future) babies?

WOMEN: Would you want your husband to breastfeed your (future) babies?

ALL: What did your father say when you asked him if he did (not) breastfed you?

[edit on 23/3/10 by Terapin]