evolution beats creationism 10 to 3 and thats generous

reply to post by randyvs


randys he asked you an excellent question and you have yet to answer nobody thinks god kicks rocks all day so do you think he can make the unmovable rock or not?

your dodging the question randys i didnt dodge yours come on randys answer the question

hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey answer the question answer the question answer the question answer the question answer the question

now you cant dodge the question

I love how evolution vs creationism topics always lead to a fight over scriptures.

@OP, could you please change the title of your thread to something more along the lines of Evolution Beats Religion 10 to 3? I have seen no more proof of evolution than creationism, actually I have seen more proof of creationism than evolution. I have seen no proof of religion TBH. Thx in advance. Interesting thread BTW.

Originally posted by ventian
@OP, could you please change the title of your thread to something more along the lines of Evolution Beats Religion 10 to 3? I have seen no more proof of evolution than creationism, actually I have seen more proof of creationism than evolution. I have seen no proof of religion TBH. Thx in advance. Interesting thread BTW.

What proof of creationism? Just wondering.

reply to post by ashanu90


Guess you missed this banana boy.

God created the Earth. The Earth can not produce a rock so big God can't move it.

You've heard that it is impossible to prove that God exists? You have heard wrong. Not only can the existence of God be proven, denying the proof undermines rational thought. It is true that God does not need anyone, let alone me, to prove his existence.The existence of God is so obvious that we are without excuse for denying it. No one needs proof that God exists.


[edit on 12-4-2010 by randyvs]

reply to post by randyvs


can he make a rock that he himself can not move or not? how about a taco could god create a taco so vast that he could not eat in one sitting? your still avoiding the question randys
i still got a bannana

reply to post by ventian


i dont think i can change the title
thanks for posting

I always love how at any chance Religion will use science to back up the biblical account or historical cities/events/articles. But when science goes against that same religion the usual shouts of denial begin post haste.

We can argue till the cows come home but the fact remains you will find out when the end of the world happens ( to you )...when you die.

reply to post by Terapin
you said:

It is very convenient to take the Bible Literally in some cases and Figuratively in other cases. Eagles never carry their young for example, but the bible says they do. Is that literal or figurative. Where does one decide which is which? One can easily explain away contradictions in the Bible if one chooses to when you can Interpret it any way you desire.

On the contrary, it's not convenience but having the right frame of mind, the right motive, a humble heart and above all prayer is what's required to fully understand the Bible.

Notice what the words of Jesus addressed to his heavenly Father indicate:
“YOU have carefully hidden these things from wise and intellectual ones, and have revealed them to babes.” (Luke 10:21)

Thus Jehovah’s wisdom is revealed in that he has provided a book that only humble, teachable people can truly understand.

Next you said:

Given that the story of the resurrection was added hundreds of years later, as it does not appear in earlier versions, one has no choice but to take the entire book as parables deigned to teach, and not a book of literal facts.

Again for someone who claimes

“I have read the Bible, cover to cover and know it well...”

to say something like the one quoted above is quite puzzling and leads me to believed that you don't (seem) know the Bible since resurrection is part of the theme of the Bible since the fall of man.

Listen to apostle Paul:
“However, now Christ has been raised up from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep [in death]. For since death is through a man, resurrection of the dead is also through a man. For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive. (see 1Cor 15:12-22).

I'm curious, where did you get the idea that “ the resurrection was added hundreds of years later, as it does not appear in earlier versions”?

Next you said:

I believe in the value of the Bible, but do not make the mistake of believing it is a book full of scientifically valid facts. It is a book invented by men with specific goals in mind. It is full of the faults men have.

→ This is rich so I'll get back to it later.

Next you said:

Evolution is a fact. The exact specifics of how it happens is a theory. We learn more every day and refine our understanding. Adaptation over time IS evolution. Given enough time, you will have a new species quite different from it's ancestors.

Let me illustrate again how unscientific and illogical your statements above are by going back to my unanswered question (this is the 3rd time now but let me elaborate further, hopefully I'll get an answer this time).

Take a look at the remarkable genetic code again specifically the structural units of DNA, which bears the genetic code. I'm sure you aware of it already but according to research five histones are thought to be involved in governing the activity of the genes in the DNA structure unit.
Question to you is simply this:

What is the probability of forming (even) the simplest of these histones through evolution or your so called “adaptation over time” evolution? Please be clear and specific.

Based on that probability, what is the possibility of it happening?

Now that's just the simplest of the histones, what about the entire genetic code? Can you please tell me the probability of forming it through evolution?

To me the only clear explanation is creation by a loving highly intelligent God.

Next you said:

The world is not 7000 years old...

Clearly either you did not read my past post or just ignored it. Here's just a couple of what I said:

cont...

Next you said:

The world is not 7000 years old...

Clearly either you did not read my past post or just ignored it. Here's just a couple of what I said:

Gen 1:1 simply states that “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” This simply means that the “heavens and the earth” were created by God. There's no mention of sequence of events, no before or after. This could also mean that the earth was created billions and billions of years ago – in fact according to the latest calculations it's about 4B....

“Many creationists believe that the universe and the earth and all life on it were created in six 24-hour days some 10,000 years ago. This, however, is not what the Bible teaches.”...

I'll await your answer to my questions (again).

Originally posted by Aim2AttainMindfulness
oh, ok i see what you are saying now: the two cannot be fused (according to your views) i understand where you are coming from! i do not believe, myself in jesus christ, but i believe in the fact that God created the universe, and then we evolved...

Aim2AttainMindfulness,

"but i believe in the fact that God created the universe, and then we evolved..."

this is what I call BLIND FAITH TO THE UMPH DEGREE!!

to say something like the one quoted above is quite puzzling and leads me to believed that you don't (seem) know the Bible since resurrection is part of the theme of the Bible since the fall of man.

reply to post by edmc^2


Hey partner, Salutations.
The Bible tells us not to waste our time on willfully ignorant fools.
That's why I just antagonise.

You don't really expect an answer do you?
They can't answer this one either.

Is there one example of a genetic mutation or even an evolutionary process which can be shown to increase the information in the genome?


I am amazed at the completeness of your knowledge. You are solid in your
faith that's for sure. stars for you.

[edit on 13-4-2010 by randyvs]

Originally posted by randyvs

to say something like the one quoted above is quite puzzling and leads me to believed that you don't (seem) know the Bible since resurrection is part of the theme of the Bible since the fall of man.

reply to post by edmc^2

 

Hey partner, Salutations.
The Bible tells us not to waste our time on willfully ignorant fools.
That's why I just antagonise.

You don't really expect an answer do you?
They can't answer this one either.

Is there one example of a genetic mutation or even an evolutionary process which can be shown to increase the information in the genome?


I am amazed at the completeness of your knowledge. You are solid in your
faith that's for sure. stars for you.

[edit on 13-4-2010 by randyvs]

Thanks randyvs, I appreciate it but most of all thanks to God the Creator as He is the one who provides wisdom to all who seek it. We just need to hope that people who are in this site/forum will come to know, acknowledge and realize that the only source of life is no other than Jehovah God / Yahweh and that the only way to God is through his son the Lord Jesus Christ (John 3:16, 14:6).
Btw, do you think that the staunch evolutionist on this site will recognize and honestly admit that Creation by a loving God (as a means to explain life) beats evolution 10 to 1 or 10 to 3?

As we all know, "theory" in a scientific sence does not equal "guess".
What many people dont know or understand, is that the use of "theory" in regards to evolution only comes in when you consider the full sentance "the theory of evolution by natural selection".
The "theory" is that evolution is driven by natural selection. Evolution itself is not the "theory".
Evolution is a fact. ID'ers might argue over macro/micro evolution, and that one happens and one doesnt. But they dont deny evolution happens.

There is no 'Goal' to evolution. Just because we are human, and naturaly think we are wonderful, does not mean evolution had us 'in mind' as an end result. We are not at the end. Its not a case of 'well whats the point? we are evolved, now what?'

What is the point of gravity? What is the point of any chemical reaction? Things happen JUST BECASUE. natural selection just happened to steer evolution down the path that finds us here able to think about this stuff.

Whats the point of the million and one various animals that pop into existance, only to get eaten by something else? Is their reason for existance purely to be eaten? Or are they just a part of life...rolling along, just happening?

Just because we are at the top of the food or technology tree doesnt make us different to some random gazelle. We are just here, because life is rolling along.

If you find life without a reason a horrific thought, well, sucks for you I guess. I find plenty of reason in life. Enjoy myself, enrich the lives of others around me, generally have a good time for that short time Im here. None of it has any long term effect. There is no grand reason or end goal, other than just being a stepping stone on lifes path. The only difference with me is that (hopefully) I wont just get eaten by some passing lion.

Just because you NEED some kind of reason for existance, and make up or accept stories to give you this reason, does not make these storys real.
Creationism is a "theoroy" in that "guess" sence.

[edit on 14-4-2010 by HeHasNoName]

well thats a very interesting post however christians will say the same thing about expieriences with their god and so will hindus and many other religions out there what makes your expierinces so different from theirs?

Heh... It's a long story; however, feel free to read my blog - media.abovetopsecret.com...&action=view&id=460

I titled it " Mount Coincidence " for a reason. Honestly though, too good to be merely coincidences. Also, if you're on Facebook look up Megyn Kelly and Courtney Friel - Both of their profile pictures show them holding up their " hands " with weird looks on their faces. Heh, I know it's meant for me... just a " sign " that they still know... =))))


I don't know if they want to keep our relationships a secret or not but hopefully not; I have far too many haters on the net over my personal story and it would definitely be the dagger in the Heart for them if I were to come along with some photos of me with my Foxy News Girls!

xoxo :p

HeHasNoName

No reply yet to myQ so I’d like to make a comment on what you said below, specifically these parts:

Things happen JUST BECASUE. natural selection just happened to steer evolution down the path that finds us here able to think about this stuff… …I find plenty of reason in life. Enjoy myself, enrich the lives of others around me, generally have a good time for that short time Im here. None of it has any long term effect. There is no grand reason or end goal, other than just being a stepping stone on lifes path...

I can understand your point of view; in fact this is what thinkers of evolution had said all along.

Here’s what Prof. Richard Dawkin’s said in an interview when asked about the purpose of life:

…as a Darwinian would see it as yet another thing that has evolved. So just as we've evolved sexual desire, just as we've evolved hunger, we have also evolved a sense of purpose. And the sense of purpose in our wild ancestors... setting out on a hunt, a purpose of looking for a water hole. ... and the human brain was,.., selected by Darwinian selection to develop this sense of purpose.”

At one time he said this also:
“there is no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but pointless indifference.’”

So if evolution were a fact, then the statement quoted in the journal Scientific American would be valid:

“Our modern understanding of evolution implies . . . that ultimate meaning in life is nonexistent.”

But have you considered the implications of those words. If “ULTIMATE meaning in life were nonexistent”, then in reality you would have no purpose in life other than as you put it:

Enjoy myself, enrich the lives of others around me, generally have a good time for that short time Im here..

Thus at death, you would cease to exist forever. Your brain, with its ability to think, reason, and meditate on the meaning of life, would simply be an accident of nature.

Also, there are those who state or assert either that God does not exist or that he will not intervene in human affairs. In either case, our future would then rest in the hands of political, academic, and religious leaders. Judging from their past record, the chaos, conflict, and corruption that plague human society would continue. Left on his own, with the way things now are, will life improve for the better or for the worst or will man eventually destroy himself? If, indeed, evolution were a fact, there would seem to be ample reason to live by the fatalistic motto: “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we are to die.”—1 Corinthians 15:32.

Make no mistake about it. In addition to what I’ve already said before, as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses we do not accept the aforementioned statements. Nor do we accept the premise upon which those statements are based—evolution. On the contrary, we believe that the Bible is true. (John 17:17) Hence, we believe what it says about how we got here: “With you [God] is the source of life.” (Psalm 36:9) Those words have profound implications.

Life does have meaning. Our Creator has a loving purpose that extends to all who choose to live in accord with his will. (Ecclesiastes 12:13) That purpose includes the promise of life in a world free of chaos, conflict, and corruption—and even free of death. (Isaiah 2:4; 25:6-8) Thus millions of JW's the world over can testify that learning about God and doing his will give meaning to life as nothing else can!—John 17:3.

What you believe certainly matters, for it can have a bearing not only on your present happiness but also on your future life. Will you continue to believe in a theory that has failed to explain away the increasing evidence for design in the natural world? Or will you accept what the Bible says, namely that the the earth and life on it are the product of a marvelous Designer—Jehovah, the the God who “created all things”?—Rev 4:11. The choice is yours.

I'm still waiting for the evolutionist to post numbers and evidence that we evolved instead of attacking scripture and quoting Darwin who himself said it's possible over 800 times that we may have evolved from apes! Read it yourself if you don't believe it. The man doesn't believe in the product he is selling!

Food for thought: evolutionists please explain how there was a 47 in. HUMAN femur that was found while excavating near the Euphrates (coincidently in the area where the fist humans were at during the Genesis). This femur when anatomically put to scale would have made the human come out to be 14-16 feet tall. Something we can credit to evolution, right?

Genesis 6:4 reads: There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Also where are these observed species evolving into something else? No one has EVER shown a frog turning into elephant, for intents and purposes. The fruit flies don't count because they mutated; they were still, ultimately, fruit flies in the end. Since humans are supposed to have been around for millions of years then why didn't the fruit flies evolve? Why hasn't any species evolved into another?

The IDEA of evolution is cool, who wouldn't want to evolve into a super human form of themselves or see sharks with laser beams attached to their heads? I know far fetched but it'd be damn cool if they did have laser beams!

Lets be honest there is more proof for creationism than evolution. Scientist will admit it, just not publicly because they would like to keep their careers and you can't blame them for that.

Excuse me, but what fact comes from reasoning based on THEORIES? Just because a man with a piece of paper stating he is a doctor doesn't mean he knows everything about the universe when he formulates some idea as to why an object exists in our reality. A theory is merely an educated guess, and apparently that is solid enough evidence for any evolutionist to hop on the bandwagon! WOOO! It's really impossible to believe all of our existence and reality happened by accident. I enjoy how evolution has just as many supporting facts as creation, and yet creationists get insulted intensely every time an argument arises. Show me all of your hard evidence that truly proves that we all evolved from nothing. Show me a fossil that points out the transition from ape to wise being. Creationism is based off of faith from the Bible, and Evolutionism is based off of faith in theory... so that does not make you any more correct than anyone else on these forums.

I would like to pose a question to evolutionists and theists (the ones that believe in God but that he just put everything together and just let it happen).

Evolution states that we were a living cell evolved from a non-living cell that evolved out of the nothingness that is space. This cell then evolves over time into multi-cell organisms all the way up to fish-like creatures. From there they grew legs, walked onto land ---- fast forward to save time --- and became who we are today. So it's a two fold question. Do you believe in evolution? If yes, do you believe you came (evolved) from a fish?

You see, there are really only two alternatives. Either we descended from fishy ancestors or we didn't. Strict evolution says this transformation was by purely natural processes, like natural selection, with no supernatural agent involved. Theistic evolution says that God either guided the process along, or that He started it off and then left it alone to continue by natural processes. Either way there is no objective evidence that the change really happened, and either way, we came from a fish!

In the context of this thread, we can see that while many people "believe" in evolution, they do not really believe in evolution. Everyone knows that fish don't become people. Even in a billion years a fish won't turn into a person. Evolutionary stories may sound nice on the surface, but step back and take a look. "I can't believe that."

How did evolution exist without being created?