The death of Estefania Gutierrez lazáro - why you shouldnt play with the quija board.

The police report does indeed translate as suggested, and the smoke and fire damage to that picture frame is consistent with the story.

That's all I'm going to say, as that's all the information I can be certain of; for all I know, they could both still be forgeries, but they certainly add an extra little chill to this story.

Thanks for sharing, OP. I'm very interested.

reply to post by andy1972


A Ouija Board is merely a board with letters on it. Nothing more spooky than a preschoolers alphabet chart or the keyboard I'm typing on right now. Certainly its awful what happened to that family but to use that tragedy to say the alphabet is dangerous is a bit odd.

Ok , I was able to get as far as , they herd screams of mama from the washroom . After that I had to stop reading

I then clicked the wiki link and upon seeing the poor girls pic I was once again struck with chills and had to close the page

yeah, I might as well come out and say: There's nothing dangerous about Ouija boards in themselves. Maybe if you deeply and truly believe or something, or happen to be in an area of high spiritual danger... But in general, they're fine.

My dad, sister and I used one once. We "contacted" what claimed to be an aborted child from the 1850's who also claimed to be God. I think his name was Albert or something. He was very reticent and obscure. None of us was directly making him up, but I'm pretty confident that we created him.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by andy1972

 

A Ouija Board is merely a board with letters on it. Nothing more spooky than a preschoolers alphabet chart or the keyboard I'm typing on right now. Certainly its awful what happened to that family but to use that tragedy to say the alphabet is dangerous is a bit odd.

The keyboard you're using is "a board with letters on it", but it could be used to compose a document which could incite a war.

A knife is just a hunk of metal with a sharp edge, but it can be used to kill.

The complexity of a tool does not correlate to the significance of the works that can be wrought with it.

If those who believe in the efficacy of such mechanisms are correct, then the board is only an intermediary between the material and the immaterial. My own opinion does not mesh wholesale with theirs, but I do believe that there are forces at work in our Universe more subtle than the matter and energy perceived by our unrefined senses. But explaining my personal beliefs about metaphysical reality in their entirety is beyond the scope of this thread.

I just want to point out that simple things can have complex effects on our world.

reply to post by The Parallelogram


It is one thing to believe in ghosts/spirits/energy but another thing entirely to insinuate that the board itself poses a danger as the title of the OP does. Ghosts or supernatural forces, if they do exist, would not require a board with letters on it to communicate and anyone suggesting a Ouija board is dangerous is only feeding the fires of silly superstition.

If a Ouija board is magical than so is my keyboard, and I could be talking to spirits right now if I wanted... but that's just it what is the point of the board? Couldn't these spirits talk directly to people, why do they require an alphabet? These boards aren't made of some magical material, in the US they are considered a board game often sold right next to Scrabble and Monopoly.

The folly of the board comes from the fact that human beings are touching it and influencing the motion of the pointer whether consciously or subconsciously they somehow convince themselves that it is a spirit they were talking to. Now perhaps if the board pointer moved by itself without ever being touched by a person I'd be more inclined to believe something paranormal was going on.

Don't get me wrong, I believe in and have experienced the paranormal but I still look at it through skeptical eyes particularly where superstition is concerned.

Was the grandmother possessed?

Such boards a merely tools nothing more nothing less. If you play with a tool you are bound to get hurt. Give a kid a loaded handgun with the safety off and he will eventually shoot himself. Give the same gun to a trained adult and nothing drastic happens. For using anything of the spritual nature one must be trained in it, or have someone trained with them. If one does not then well one is bound to get hurt.
I suppose that is all I have to say, except that I believe the OP's story, as I have seen many of similar nature, but I will not post them here as I do not have evidence expect personal (and my dads) experience

Originally posted by aletheia
Once you invite the presence into your home you will most likely have the worst time getting it to leave.

Pretty important statement right there. They can't enter the home unless invited.

Originally posted by Marrr

Originally posted by aletheia
Once you invite the presence into your home you will most likely have the worst time getting it to leave.

Pretty important statement right there. They can't enter the home unless invited.

Very true, however most people when trying to use these boards (or other tools of similar nature) do not realize that they are inviting something in. which is really where the problem begins.

Originally posted by Marrr

Pretty important statement right there. They can't enter the home unless invited.

Why not? What principle prevents an ethereal or energy based being from entering any home it wants to and why on Earth is the alphabet, written down, a tool for inviting these entities? If it is not the board is it the mere invitation of activity that brings it on? I've asked gods, ghosts and goblins to appear before me and received no response, should I get out my trusty alphabet board and ask again?

If Ouija board, which merely has the alphabet on it, is an invitation to spirits what would happen if I had a book of ghost stories, or any book containing letters for that matter, could reading it aloud unwittingly unleash the paranormal?



[edit on 13-3-2010 by Titen-Sxull]

or maybe its her that went up Estefanias nose as smoke

Maybe some crack cocain went up Estefanias nose as smoke ?



Sorry My innerchild couldn't resist.

An interesting story, stuff like this is well documented, but i've read claims that the person/people involved might be the source of disturbance themselves, not as in hoax, but in some kind of subconcious anxiety, actually cause suchthings to happen.
The human mind is a mystery too.

Sounds believable but with the truth streched a bit, hello media! Probably going deeper than just the board itself.

I've had experiences with boards and no horrible luck in the past. My only horrible luck once came from a book( I won't give the name) but it did discuss the paranormal and board use. Everytime, a possible coincidence(?), that I would read it, even sometimes pick it up...I was having 'strange luck', creepy situation or a person of a faith trying to convert me to the light.
There was a Coast To Coast Am topic of coincidences in summer '07, while George Nory figured to not do the live Ouija Board reading, because of the horrible things going on(noted as not coincidences) in his life while he was planning to do the show. I had a wierd coincidence myself while listening to that very show! That made me even question if just a topic of such can come true, even over a radio braodcast or my own thought, am I really safe toying with such things as an Ouija Board. From that I did learn that coincidences are less common than an actual pattern(possible Akasic Record connection).

Oh why oh why do I read these things just before I go to bed? Star and flag, ouija boards aren't meant to be messed around with.

My sister claimed to have done this sht with her friends when they were younger. Later she told me they asked where michael dunadee (sp?) The missing boy was,she said the ouija board said that michael was murdered and cut up with a chainsaw.

My sister has had kinda bad luck since.

Well off to sleep wondering if there are monsters under my bed.lol

What has happened to this family since 1992? Have their problems continued and, if not, how did they end?

reply to post by CarolynC


The incidents continued but over time faded to nothing. The family left their home and the new family that live there havent reperted anything.

I think the girl was the door, port of entry for whatever was in the house.
Maybe the grandmothers behavior was a direct result. She was using the ouija board over some time, so the "entity" entered the house through the girl and "maybe" showed itself through the grandmother.

An interesting story, stuff like this is well documented, but i've read claims that the person/people involved might be the source of disturbance themselves, not as in hoax, but in some kind of subconcious anxiety, actually cause suchthings to happen.
The human mind is a mystery too.

The girl was dead before the incidents began. So no hoax. No subconcious anxiety. The only thing that happened before was with the grandmother. I believe the girl was the medium and the "entity" entered through her,starting by affecting her grandmother and then entering the girl and killing her.

Were did you here this story from?

reply to post by ShilohGirl


I read, heard and saw this story on tv.
This, i say once more, was MSM here in Spain years ago. Its credibility lies in the fact so many police were present and witnessed what went on.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull

Originally posted by Marrr

Pretty important statement right there. They can't enter the home unless invited.

Why not? What principle prevents an ethereal or energy based being from entering any home it wants to and why on Earth is the alphabet, written down, a tool for inviting these entities? If it is not the board is it the mere invitation of activity that brings it on? I've asked gods, ghosts and goblins to appear before me and received no response, should I get out my trusty alphabet board and ask again?

If Ouija board, which merely has the alphabet on it, is an invitation to spirits what would happen if I had a book of ghost stories, or any book containing letters for that matter, could reading it aloud unwittingly unleash the paranormal?



[edit on 13-3-2010 by Titen-Sxull]

The principle that prevents them entering is a universal law. It does not prevent entities with good intentions from entering but it does prevent any negative entities from entering, it is done simply by your will that it is your house.

The alphabet written down is not a tool for inviting those entities, however the alphabet written down with an intent to create such a tool is, and such can be used by anyone. Mass produced boards will not be as easy to use as boards created individually with intent. The intent to invite them in is the main tool. Almost anything can be used with intent to invite these entities in.

About your book scenario reading any book aloud will not unwittingly invite entities in, however reading aloud (or silently) with the intent to invite them in will do so.

If you want to try again make sure your intent is solid and go ahead, but before that know protection and the like, or you might end up in trouble.