Why I am now a Libertarian

I joined ATS in September 2009; I did not really involve myself here until December. When I began to read through political topics one thing seemed to be what the majority of people here at ATS are, Libertarian. I know there is a wide range of Libertarianism. It was rather difficult for me to find anyone that was a Socialist like me; there were only a handful of people who shared my political ideology.

Now there will be one less Socialist on ATS, me. I have always liked Libertarianism but because I adhere to Social Justice it seemed rather impossible, and I hate corporations. I saw Libertarianism as the way corporations will finally run everything and consolidate their power, I thought Libertarians did not care what happened to other people and if you are poor then who cares. But 3 days ago I was talking to my uncle, who is a Libertarian-like person, he voted for Ralph Nader and Howard Dean but his favorites’ are Ron Paul and Peter Schiff. He was telling me his ideas of how to fix healthcare, obviously I was going on and on about a public option, he then told me the only way to truly fix healthcare was to let people pay out of pocket. I told him he was crazy because that would be absolutely unaffordable, but he told me that if people started paying out of pocket and shopped around for doctors it would be far cheaper than any form of health coverage. H pointed out health care back before Medicare where a hospital bed for 1 night only cost about 2 days salary.

So anyways I researched Libertarian ideas and I kept my mind open to the different options, I then began to like Libertarianism. I learned it won't give corporations unlimited power and it would actually stop them from raping us. So after reading the Libertarian Party’s platform I read about Ron Paul and his opinions, to my surprise with an open mind I actually liked all of his statements, especially foreign policy. So I now must apologize to anyone who is a Libertarian and I talked bad about before. I STILL HATE GLENN BECK!

So I would like to know what everyone else thinks about Libertarianism and Ron Paul.

en.wikipedia.org...
www.lp.org...
www.youtube.com...
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[edit on 3/12/10 by Misoir]

All I gotta say is...."Welcome to our happy family". Take care of yourself and leave everyone else alone,

To make sure you don't fill like a hypocrite or something. Up until a month and a half ago I was one of those far right zealots bowing to corporations.

[edit on 12-3-2010 by ventian]

Welcome, libertarian with social consciousness is ... hmmm ... anarchist. Once again welcome.

reply to post by Misoir


Alright Misoir,

Welcome to the stance the American founders, decided upon to run this country. Now a link for an article describing constitutional Libertarian ideals.

The constitutional-Libertarian

by Ken D. Berry, MD
(libertarian)
Wednesday, January 21, 2009

I have noticed over the years a lot of Doctors follow the tenet of Libertarianism.

For those not familiar, pure Libertarian Ideals are based on just one tenet, that one must not hurt another or infringe upon their rights. These rights generally broken down to life, liberty and property(Pursuit of Happiness). The founders, though great, had a problem with using property in the Constitution. Some have speculated it was because many of them did not believe in owning slaves, hence the removal of property as a right. Some have said, this was one of the largest mistakes they made by what we see today of the rabid seizure of property by our government.

Well, I would say though the founders thought they had to set a basic structure, for our country laid out in the Constitution.

This was the birth of a new form of Libertarianism, a Constitutional Libertarian. Where knowing at that time and even in this time, the US needed a framework to deal with the day to day problems of a country our size.

I look forward to the day that true Libertarianism and charity will solve all the problems of society.

Until that day, we need to remove the chains and weights that are suppressing freedom. Also the regulations that are causing the very monopolies and suppression of economic freedoms.

And for leaving the darkside a gif for you.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/33b4bf72bf12.gif[/atsimg]

reply to post by zeddissad


Sorry, anarchist and Libertarian are not the same.


edit to add-libertarian: supports the smallest possible government, supports individual liberty in all ways, prefers to only defend our borders and not interfere in other countries' affairs.

[edit on 3/12/2010 by endisnighe]

reply to post by endisnighe


I am not an Anarchist I do believe in government. But a very limited government, I am a Jeffersonian Democrat. Ron Paul is a great Libertarian but I disagree with him on several things such as abortion and prayer in public schools. I don't think Ron Paul is Libertarian enough.

The core political value of America is representative democracy; citizens have a civic duty to aid the state and resist corruption, especially monarchism and aristocracy.

The yeoman farmer best exemplifies civic virtue and independence from corrupting city influences; government policy should be for his benefit. Financiers, bankers and industrialists make cities the cesspools of corruption, and should be avoided.

Americans had a duty to spread what Jefferson called the "Empire of Liberty" to the world, but should avoid "entangling alliances."

The national government is a dangerous necessity to be instituted for the common benefit, protection, and security of the people, nation or community; it should be watched closely and circumscribed in its powers. Most Anti-Federalists from 1787-88 joined the Jeffersonians.

The wall of separation between church and state is the best method to keep religion free from intervention by the federal government, government free of religious disputes, and religion free from corruption by government.

The federal government must not violate the rights of individuals. The Bill of Rights is a central theme.

The federal government must not violate the rights of the states. The Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions of 1798 (written secretly by Jefferson and James Madison) proclaim these principles.

Freedom of speech and the press is the best method to prevent the tyranny of the people by their own government. The Federalists' violation of this idea through the Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798 became a major issue.

A standing army and navy are dangerous to liberty and should be avoided; much better was to use economic coercion such as the embargo.

The United States Constitution was written in order to ensure the freedom of the people. A strict view of how the constitution was written is kept. However, "no society can make a perpetual constitution or even a perpetual law. The earth belongs always to the living generation."

I prefer Agrarianism and Constitutional Libertarianism which would make me a Jeffersonian Democrat.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by zeddissad

 

Sorry, anarchist and Libertarian are not the same.


edit to add-libertarian: supports the smallest possible government, supports individual liberty in all ways, prefers to only defend our borders and not interfere in other countries' affairs.

[edit on 3/12/2010 by endisnighe]

I did not said that. I said libertarian + social consciousness =anarchist. Any argument?
Silly second line ...

reply to post by Misoir


Yes, the pure Libertarian ideals scare a lot of people. I call myself a Constitutional Libertarian, Social Liberal, Fiscal Conservative.

As for the Agrarianism, life in Modern Society has grown to the point that many countries cannot follow that tenet. I believe if the world's population spread out that could work. But some just find semi or rural life to be beneath them. My last employer actually asked me when I gave my notice where was I going to eat when I moved back here. He is right, I miss my favorite restaurants. I have lived in Metropolitan, Semi Metro, Suburbs, Semi rural and rural. Now, I prefer the rural, with a Metro within a few hours drive. Culture diversity is hard to come by in the rural setting. Plus I enjoy a play, top restaurant and other diversions now and again. We all have our vices. Veal Parmesan at a nice Italian restaurant is one of mine.

The move of our government is to move people into the Metros and to try and keep as few of us out here in the boonies as possible.

Urban sprawl is a problem, but rural living is not. People that generally live in rural settings manage there lands way better than the government does.

You know, a lot of people like you actually have the knowledge that I lack. You mentioning the Jeffersonian Democrat, threw me for a loop, had to do a little googling.


And to leave, from your quote.

The United States Constitution was written in order to ensure the freedom of the people. A strict view of how the constitution was written is kept. However, "no society can make a perpetual constitution or even a perpetual law. The earth belongs always to the living generation."

Now, this right here is a good example of why we HAVE to remember that even though we amend the Constitution, does not mean we cannot RE AMEND it for some of the bad moves we made in the past, or not make amendments.

But we must remember, that to sidestep the Constitution, makes us no better than any other tyrant of the past.

endisnighe get off soapbox, exits stage libertarian-

[edit on 3/12/2010 by endisnighe]

I'm a Libertarian as well.

Its about civil rights and liberties as opposed to authoritarianism.

Government should serve us ,not some international mega corps.

reply to post by Misoir


There are many ranges of Libertarianism. I am a social libertarian if there is such a thing. I believe in limited government that has a main priority of making sure it's citizens have the ability to sustain their life, liberty, and pursue happiness. This would include things like shelter, food, health care, common defense, etc. applied equally to all. General Welfare and Common Defense is all that government should be regulating.

Look at it this way. If we had the government focused on these necessities to live life, we would have no need for over half of our government. We don't need people to approve or disapprove benefits. No need for worker's comp, just go see a doctor. No need for food stamps, just go get your food. No need for section 8 or government housing, just go get an apartment. No need for SSI, as all needs are already provided. No need for medicare/medicaid, just go to the doctor. No need for unemployment benefits, all needs are already provided if you don't have work. Etc, etc. Almost our entire government could be turned into a producing machine instead of a paper pushing denier of benefits.

[edit on 12-3-2010 by ExPostFacto]

Hello ATS members! I don't want to wander from the thread but was wondering about the implications of free energy? I want to take a poll of members opinions on the morality of letting out technology that would render fossil fuels irrelevant? Is it possible to give the world free energy and still maintain a peace? If we can let a technology like free energy happen will we be able to control the population because of the abundance of fresh water and cheap food? And if we can will some philosophy keep us from murdering those that have conflicting views or them having a population explosion as well thus leading to a war of ideologies? Not like that is already happening.... I just want a world that works, we have been at each others throats since the beginning of civilization and I see no reason that we will change. No philosophy or religion has changed the fudamental differences or clashes of cultures that we see today any more than they were in the Alexandrian or Caesarian times. If free energy was introduced now would it result in little more than absolute chaos? Those who have been responsible for shaping modern society and profiting from the energy monopoly would most likely erase anyone who offered such a possibility no? I just want to chime in and see what other free thinkers have to say in this subject?! Please forgive my thread jack but I haven't been able to post my own threads yet and I figured what better place to start?