Open letter to LEO, what will you choose

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posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 12:09 PM
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Originally posted by drmeola
First we are talking about in a time when the federal government sends down an order that clearly stated is against the constitution. And I will leave it at that.


the american constitution is open to interpretation, which is why you have a supreme court, the government can pass any law they like and then the judiciary decides if the law is unconstitutional.

the police have nothing to do with deciding weather the law is constitutional or not and they have to uphold the law where they know it is being broken, regardless of their feelings.

and federal drug prohibition is clearly unconstitutional.




posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by pieman
this is quite simple, they are there to enforce the law, no matter what the law may be. they are on the side of the law, simple as that.


If we are on the side of the law, why do we not give tickets or arrest for EVERY violation of the law we see? Why do we let people go for stuff WE as LEO's don't care about, but it's still in the code book and could be charged for? If we were truly on the side of the law, why would we as for amendments to laws so we don't have to enforce them?



an LEO is in no position to examine the constitutionality or justification of any particular law and, TBH, they don't really care.


Why aren't we? As stated above if we weren't we wouldn't let people go...EVER. So if we "don't really care" then why do we do such things?



in the US, the fact that they enforce unconstitutional federal drug prohibition should be the only indication that you need to tell you that they will enforce the laws they're told to enforce.


Well sorry your all for crack, coc aine, heroin, etc...to flood our streets...but when I have to go to a house and find a dead 15 year old because of drugs, I sure as hell want to stop the flow. I have been out on WAY to many dead teen scene's and thanks to drugs, these kids are gone. Wonder if your mindset would be the same if one of them was your daughter or son?


if they're told to round up potential terrorists, in the guise of CTers, and detain them in specially designed temporary holding camps, that's just what they'll do.


Let me guess, NO ONE in your world is a threat and should be free to do anything they want without question. Just because your not smart enough or capable of seeing the evil in some, doesn't mean people we do "round up" aren't a threat in some way.


the war has started, they have chosen their sides, stop fooling yourselves.


It has, please let me know where cause I haven't see it yet. I can't imagine waking up everyday and living my life with such paranoia.



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 12:17 PM
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Hi Pieman,


First I would like to say NO the constitution is not open for interpretation, it is clearly laid out and word specifically in a manor as so not to be left open to interpretation. The problem is the Supreme Court and court justices are appointed by the very corrupt people of all, and that is what leads to the so called interpretation of the law. Second they can not eliminate the constitution so they amend it to better suit there needs.

I will leave it at that, and let the others explain further, since they are better suited at doing so then myself.

I would like to add you’re a breath of fresh air rcewj1975 and I am honored to have made your acquaintance. Thank you for your continued response on this thread.

[edit on 12-3-2010 by drmeola]



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by rcwj1975
If we are on the side of the law, why do we not give tickets or arrest for EVERY violation of the law we see?


dunno, incompetence, apathy, racism, favoritism, there are any number of reasons. you're really asking me to explain why a cop enforces the law in one case and not in another!!


Why aren't we?


because you're not, by definition, a law enforcement officer upholds the law. that's all you're trained to do. how much instruction does the average cop get in constitutional law?


I have to go to a house and find a dead 15 year old because of drugs, I sure as hell want to stop the flow. I have been out on WAY to many dead teen scene's and thanks to drugs, these kids are gone. Wonder if your mindset would be the same if one of them was your daughter or son?


blah, blah, blah, do you want to ban swimming because sometimes children drown? it doesn't matter what you bull crap justification is, you're still enforcing an unconstitutional law, your justification could just as easily apply to gun control.


Just because your not smart enough or capable of seeing the evil in some, doesn't mean people we do "round up" aren't a threat in some way.


i'm not interested in you reasoning, i'm just making it clear that you will do it. you agree it seems.


I can't imagine waking up everyday and living my life with such paranoia.


you're the one suggesting that normally moral people would be microwaving babies if it wasn't for the police!!

[edit on 12/3/10 by pieman]



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by pieman
dunno, incompetence, apathy, racism, favoritism, there are any number of reasons. you're really asking me to explain why a cop enforces the law in one case and not in another!!


Yes I am asking you genius, your the one claiming we enforce the law no matter what!!!!!!! I am telling you WE DO NOT...and yet because we don't we are now incompetent rather than human and understanding? We are racist or using favoritism? Really dude....thats sad.



because you're not, by definition, a law enforcement officer upholds the law. that's all you're trained to do. how much instruction does the average cop get in constitutional law?


I agree to an extent, but to answer your question, my department gets 16 hours a year on constitutional law, or any changes in case law. You may laugh at 16 hours, but usually we recieve the same amount as MOST lawyers...so before you try to make fun of that, its simply true.



blah, blah, blah, do you want to ban swimming because sometimes children drown? it doesn't matter what you bull crap justification is, you're still enforcing an unconstitutional law, your justification could just as easily apply to gun control.


Sure cause swimming and having people sell LETHAL drugs is the same. And a dead teen is bullcrap justification...awesome dude...glad your an american patriot!!!! And hey...last I checked the 2nd Amendment clearly defines gun control...which one talks about drug control?



i'm not interested in you reasoning, i'm just making it clear that you will do it. you agree it seems.


I do agree when it is justified. And not interested in my reasoning...wow, speaks volumes about you.



you're the one suggesting that normally moral people would be microwaving babies if it wasn't for the police!!

[edit on 12/3/10 by pieman]


Uh no...re-read it. I said people are NOW microwaving their babies WITH law enforcement present...imagine NO LAW!



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 12:51 PM
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Rest assured that the constitution will be protected if the need arises.


oathkeepers.org...



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 01:11 PM
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Originally posted by rcwj1975
Yes I am asking you genius, your the one claiming we enforce the law no matter what!!!!!!!


i think you'll find i said you are "there to enforce the law, no matter what the law may be", i certainly was never naive enough to assume you do it in anything approaching an evenhanded manner.


You may laugh at 16 hours, but usually we recieve the same amount as MOST lawyers...so before you try to make fun of that, its simply true.


lawyers aren't there to interpret the law either, so i'm not entirely reassured.



Sure cause swimming and having people sell LETHAL drugs is the same.


every pharmacist and bar in the US sells LETHAL drugs, any business sells something that might be LETHAL, but most things banned a schedule I aren't LETHAL. what the hell has potential lethality got to do with it.


And a dead teen is bullcrap justification...awesome dude...glad your an american patriot!!!!


yes it is a bullcrap justification for prohibition and no, i'm not an american, nor a patriot.


And hey...last I checked the 2nd Amendment clearly defines gun control...which one talks about drug control?


clearly defined?

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.


might that not be interpreted to say that every person has the right to be part of a militia and bear arms as part of that regulated militia? if that was what the government and judiciary decided, would you be in a position to disagree?



I do agree when it is justified. And not interested in my reasoning...wow, speaks volumes about you.


i'm sure hitler believed he was right about the jews, i'm not terribly interested in his justifications.


Uh no...re-read it. I said people are NOW microwaving their babies WITH law enforcement present...imagine NO LAW!


i imagine that somebody who was inclined to nuke their baby probably still would and people who weren't inclined to do so probably wouldn't. what do you imagine would happen?



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 01:15 PM
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I use to support oathkeepers.org but never again. There a few reasons but mainly because they did not stand up for one of there own. They will not allow any advertising for Militia with the same goals in mind. There own words, because are Military personal then would not be allowed to openly join them for security clearance reasons. And I agree that is a good reason and I under stand that. But to not stand up for one of your own and deny he was a member after all he did for them, and unfortunately I can not at this minute remember the gentleman’s name but will find out. I can no long support them.

But I do thank you for your post.



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 01:23 PM
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rcwj1975

Has the citizens of this nation sworn anything to the consititution?


Greetings rcwj1975, how are you my friend?

This post is a most excellent post, and one that NEEDS to be addressed, by ALL ~ AMERICAN CITIZENS ~ (gang members, and such, don't consider themselves Americans, so I'm sure they count themselves out).

There is a dilema approaching that needs to have focus if it is to succeed.

March 13 there's supposed to be a march onto Washington to address the scope of issues the letter addresses, and this March is going to be done by CONSTITUTIONALLY ACCEPTED, AND ACCEPTABLE people.

You can be assured that law enforcement is going to be there.

This movement has called for civil disobedience. Do these people have the right to be such?

CONSTITUTIONALLY, yes, they do. However, like rcwj1975 mentioned, many of these folks never swore an oath to the Constitution, so - therefore - do they have a right, just by their citizenship alone?

Something inside of me is telling me no....

You too bring up a very, VERY relevant point rcwj1975, one that I feel ~EVERY~ American needs to personally address. I think it's time for American citizens to step up and swear an oath to protect the constitution, to legitimize their right to defend it.

HOW CAN THIS BE ACCOMPLISHED?

They are CONSTITUTIONALISTS, that will be defending their CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS by performing this DUTY to protest the unconstitutionality of America's existing government. But if they have never gone on record as having sworn to defend the Constitution, Law Enforcement - I believe - doesn't have to, nor are they allowed to - recognize them as having the dutiful right to ~ ACT ~ on Constitutional issues.

Those that have not sworn a Constitutional Oath too could quite possibly be foreign operatives, helping to egg on the revolt - JUST TO BRING ABOUT AN ABSOLUTE FALL OF AMERICA!

I have a way to resolve this issue, but it needs to be implimented quickly if we are to stave off a possible injunction during a Constitutionally bound movement that could cause an all out civil war to occur.

I know that this is a BIG thing to try to accomplish in such short notice, but if it could be implimented as a form of OBLIGATIONAL IDENTITY to identify individuals who eventually do partake in the 'movement' to correct American policy as an individual who HAS sworn a duty to the constitution, it would legitimize their right to ACT, as well as let LEOs know that they are Constitutional Patriots attempting to correct American Policy.

Basically, it's this: There needs to be some place - a website that also stores data physically - that would allow Americans to swear an oath to defend the constitution, the same oath the military and law enforcement swears (perhaps the Oath Keepers can help with this...) AS WELL AS some identifiable logo that can announce that individual's indemnity to the constitution.

Perhaps the original American flag of thirteen white stars in a circle on the navy blue background? (minus the stripes, to make this a FOCUSED statement)

The government has set up a website for Americans that actually allows them to sign the American Declaration of Independance ! Now while this yet is still not the Constitution, it IS a form of an oath - in the form of your signature - that will go on file with the government. Signing the Declaration would be a big step towards a form of oath. This site is located here:

Sign the American Declaration of Independance

But it's still not enough I'm afraid...

there is another website that allows folks to sign the 'New Declaration of Independance' that too may be of use - however I am under the impression that the website, which is a movement for small government, may actually be a front for the tea party movement. It's found here:

Will You Sign the New Declaration of Independence?

The big thing is - there is no way for someone who is an average citizen, to place thier signature on the constitution...

You can visit the Government's Constitution website (which also houses the separation of Constitutional Law, as amendments 1 - 10, known as the Bill of Rights, Articles of Confederation, the Virginian Declaration of Independance, and the Magna Carta) here:

The Constitution of the United States of America

On a personal note... I have never sworn an oath Constitutionally, as I've not served in the military nor in Law Enforcement. I am however a 12th generation American with ancestors who fought in the Revolutionary War, to secure this country and her freedom. My Mother has served on Capitol hill as Secretary to Senator Montgomery, as well as her brother, my uncle, was the Master Electrician in charge over maintenance of the Capitol building proper, that is until he retired.

My Father - he's a decorated Vietnam Era Commissioned officer who was in command over his Navy Seal unit, O.D.S.... With the PERSONAL achievement of the Silver Star and the Navy Cross.

I'm an American. I need to be known as one...

Is my proposal a relevant one?



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 01:35 PM
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Pieman,

I see you are in Europe, question as you debate American LE, how is Shariah treating you? And I can understand your hostility towards American LE since your own government has faltered in up holding your own constitution. By allowing the Muslims to take over peace by peace, this is exactly what we are trying to prevent here. With every breath in my body I will not allow Shariah Law and the Muslim way of Allah to take hold in my country. This is the whole reason behind this thread. Who are you going to stand with, the Marxist, Moe, and Muslims that have clearly taken over the White House or are you going to say F you. And stand with the populist to take back our country from these traitors.



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 01:40 PM
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Hi darksparcs,

Welcome and thank you for your post,

As a naturalized citizen you do not have to be sworn to the oath to be bound by it, and protected with it. How ever some were among one of my threads or post is the oath as taken by those whom have become citizens of the United States and is a good read. I will see if I can find it and post here for you.

Again thank you for your post and look forward to hear more from you as we go along.



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by drmeola
Pieman,

I see you are in Europe, question as you debate American LE, how is Shariah treating you?


once you work out how to spell it, would you mind explaining to me why sharia should be "treating" me in any way?


With every breath in my body I will not allow Shariah Law and the Muslim way of Allah to take hold in my country. This is the whole reason behind this thread.


your thread on law enforcement is motivated by you opposition to muslims? okay!!!!


Who are you going to stand with, the Marxist, Moe, and Muslims that have clearly taken over the White House or are you going to say F you. And stand with the populist to take back our country from these traitors.


moe the bartender? moe from the three stooges? moe money? moe problems? which moe?

you know, you're the reason most muslims hate america.
i wonder if you're smart enough to work out that that's an insult.



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 02:00 PM
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I believe that most LEO's, especially those in smaller communities, would be on the side of the people if it came down to it. I've been in trouble a few times in my life and I have seen the good and the bad side of LEO's, but most of them would uphold their oathe to the Constitution IMO.

As far as extreme Muslims are concerned, I have been researching this for the past year. Everything that I have found on the subject shows that we are indeed heading for trouble inside America.

Whether it is fighting against the Muslim extremists inside America when they start their Jihad War inside our borders, or standing with Patriots against a tyrannical government, for the most part, LEO's will be on the side of American Citizens.

I really believe the biggest threat right now are all the radical Islam extremist sleeper cells inside our country. They are here and have been for a while. Their goal is to make Sharia Law the only Law and Islam the only religion, and they will stop at nothing to achieve these results.

America's darkest days are yet to come. I hope people will be ready.....



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 02:36 PM
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Ok my bad for fast typing and not rereading my work. Sorry for the extra H and I my moe reference was meant to be moa as in Chairman Moa.

Hello kennylee,

Welcome and thank you for your post.

The only thing I would correct you on is Jihad has already been declared on America, blood has already been spilt. What are you waiting for to see them march up and down your street with weapons drawn in a soldier like manner? If that is the case well you might as well forget that ever happening here. That kind of reminds me of what the 3 per centers was faced with, as they went out to meet the fight, the rest sat at home and fooled themselves as the lye on the couch saying its not that bad, it will never happen. The red coats will never get this far up the hill, and every other kind of excuse you can think of. Till there knocking on your door, to take you away to some concentration camp and label you a terrorist. With no trial no evidence no anything just because they felt like it. Oh wait this is my whole point of this thread, the government doing what they want just for the F of it. Under home land security of course and treat you an enemy combatant simply for exercising your first amendment rite of free speech. Like I am doing rite now, I am a threat to America because I am trying my best to show how this government has already broken the constitution and rally people to wake up and say no more. and I want to know if my local yokels are going to follow out the order to arrest and detain me with out due process and cart me off to some camp, just for sitting here and talking to you. I know I have done no wrong and I pity anyone LE, FBI, CIA OR ANY OTHER government people to come in my house to arrest me for no reason, all I can say is they better bring a lot of body bags with them. For that statement alone I can be arrest for making a threat rite. But the Muslim scum who preaches Shariah spelt correctly in some circles thank you very much, can say death to America kill all infidels and all the rest but because of political correctness the LE cant touch them or the play the victim card.

Ok enough of my ramblings what do you think. lol


There is a Sharia Law and also if search you will find Shariah Court. But thanks for playing.

Sharia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Etymology|Definitions...|Classic...|Modern...Hyperlinked encyclopedia article on the traditional law of Islam. Also known as Allah's ... their law to Muslims in place of Shariah, as they did in some colonies, the result ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia - 333k - Cached

edit to add anouther spelling as outlilned.

Shariah Islamic Law - The Sharia
Islamic law or the Shariah is the rules set forth in the Muslim's holy book the ... Sharia, Shariah, Sharee'ah, Shari'ah are all basically terms that ...
www.shariah.net - Cached

[edit on 12-3-2010 by drmeola]

[edit on 12-3-2010 by drmeola]

[edit on 12-3-2010 by drmeola]



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 02:51 PM
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Wow... just turned on some news program; seems a child molester was apprehended, a drunken driving fatality last night, and an other murder committed. Swear this stuff is always in the news, and worse.

Stupid law violating civilians. All of you are screwed up. Yes, all of you. All of you break laws, because man o man, the news is always full of that information. You can't make the distinction between the few bad against the majority good? Well guess what, now it's our turn.

A bad cop story is in the news how often? And a bad civilian is in the news how frequently? Seems to me all the finger pointers should take a look in their collective mirrors.

Good thing we LEOs are here.

***

Now that the little rant is done, I must say, this thread is a lot better than some of the others that have been floating around. I hope this continues at this level of discussion.




posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 02:58 PM
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I love it soothsayer, you so fit in at one of my barbeques, my whole family and again as I have mentioned before most in law enforcement have to be the biggest bunch of sarcastic people you will ever meet. Laugh my ass off, keep up the good work.



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by drmeola
 


Jihad has been declared already "officially" speaking. IMO, all the Islamic Extremists in the camps inside America right now, plus all those in various other sleeper cells across the country, are all waiting for the word to attack us. And when that word is given, I believe we will see multiple suicide attacks across the nation in the same day or days. We will also see these jihadists walking into crowded shopping malls and opening fire on the public.

Muslim extremists are our biggest threat right now because they live among us and can hit us at anytime, day or night.

Drmeola, we as Americans will stand shoulder to shoulder in that day and protect this land we love so much, from Islamic extremists, or a tyrannical out of control government. We the People will be prepared...



EDIT TO ADD: Now I'll probably be on the government's watch-list!

[edit on 12-3-2010 by kennylee]



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 05:29 PM
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Yeppers they just put your name rite below mine, lol

Bottom line is everyone has there own line drawn in the sand as some have said, and when they cross that line it will be time to respond. My line has been crossed a long time ago, to fight back I use my computer on sites like this to keep the information flowing to keep the threat in the fore front of peoples minds. As the government and mainstream media does everything in its power to keep you distracted with things like health care.

The real enemy for America is and until changed will be POLITICAL CORRECTNESS.

Until we can over turn this, it is going to be hard to recognize any other enemy on our soil as we label people with that. We say oh no it’s not Muslims, it those pesky RADICAL MUSLLIMS. In Israel they simple are Muslims period. There goals are simple and they make no bones about it. Israel will not even allow them to serve in a military fashion because they can not be trusted. Only in America are there words like EXTEMEIST AND RADICAL. So we invite them in, give them jobs in the military and in government, because they play the victims card with organizations like CARE.

So I say the line has been crossed for me, time to start picketing in front of your local Mosques, and in the streets of the so called Communities.
Just read my thread on SHARIAH VS CONSTITUITON all the info is there if you just read.

Jihad had been declared on American soil, not a Jihad of guns and sleeper cells, no that would make things to easy for us. They know this so they use our own first amendment against us and use our tax exemption laws and claim they are a religious group. Come on are we that stupid? Well I would say yes we are. If you are waiting for the mails to blow up and cells to go (postal) now referred to as going Muslim, then I am afraid my friend you will never see that. And if you did, it would just you know those RADICALS, EXTREMEIST not the Allah worshiping Shariah Law followers that make it clear that infidels are nothing more than a half human so its ok to kill them. Half humans, like there women are considered, half it take two women to equal the same voice as one man in a tribal court.

Know with this new eye openers I just laid on you I ask the question again. Are you going to stand with the 3 per centers, or sit on the couch till the local wal mart blows up? And when it does happen the mainstream will just tell you, relax it’s just those RADICAL TERRORIST that some how snuck in from Afghanistan and Iran, not the peace loving Muslims that practice Sharia and worship Allah.

I have stated these 500 ways to Sunday, and can’t make it much clearer. But I will continue to bring forth the information as I come across it and pray that at least one person’s eyes are opened by it.

As always thank you for your post with the response of others there would be no debate.



posted on Mar, 13 2010 @ 11:06 AM
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Originally posted by rcwj1975

Originally posted by pieman
this is quite simple, they are there to enforce the law, no matter what the law may be. they are on the side of the law, simple as that.


If we are on the side of the law, why do we not give tickets or arrest for EVERY violation of the law we see? Why do we let people go for stuff WE as LEO's don't care about, but it's still in the code book and could be charged for? If we were truly on the side of the law, why would we as for amendments to laws so we don't have to enforce them?



The reason cops do not arrest for every little nitpicking ordinance is as follows: There is more effort than money involved. Cops only arrest enough to fill their desired hours of overtime for court. Of course a cop will arrest for blatant violations no matter how many...BUt if left to their own devices, cops do not arrest so many people that they would have to do all the paperwork, appear in court and hearings and depositions, etc.

The more people a cop arrests, the more work it is for him. THAT is why they do not arrest for ALL violations, it is TOO MUCH WORK!! Cops like a balance...plenty of overtime when desired, and less when they need time off. So they can aggressively arrest people during the slow times, and lay off when they have other things to do.

Now, as for your diatribe about DRUGS and OVERDOSE deaths, please show ONE cogent and intelligent study or evidence that Prohibition helps this situation in any way. The fact that drugs are illegal means that there are no controls ( other than you throwing someone in a cage ) over purity, over distribution, over warnings of toxicity...nothing.

If you are tired of seeing people die from hard narcotics ( impossible with pot) then join LEAP and try to get Prohibition lifted. It is the ONLY answer, and you know it. Ah, but here is the rub: You as a cop make a substantial part of your living from arresting petty drug users..people who wanted only to be left alone, but upon running into you end up in a cage, for God knows how long, with the few murderers and rapists you guys managed to catch when you weren't shaking down teens for a jont.

You alienate virtually ALL the youth you come across...the vast majority of kids today see cops as the enemy....always looking to bust you over petty crap that hurts no one...and even if an activity actually does cause harm to the user throwing him in a cage does NOT help him...treatment is a joke..the cops want numbers and easy ones at that.

It seems that the people who actually have experience with cops have a bad experience to report, generally, and those who never come into contact with them....old folks and non-drivers, etc...think they are probable OK..until they run into them in action.

So you are NOT holding off on arresting people because of some kindness in your heart or some concern for the people...you arrest as you wish according to how much overtime you want. Other than occasionally arresting a really bad guy that threatens society, what acts have you performed lately that show your love of the People? How many teens and young people have you busted for petty pot offenses? Every one of them is a chance to show that you are either a help to society, or a hindrance.

And we know what chioce you will make, don't we?



posted on Mar, 13 2010 @ 11:31 AM
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Hello, Great thread and very interesting replies.

My friend rcwj1975 is very, very knowledgeable and patient with most if not all ATS posters. Me ? I'm old and get to Grumpy.

But I just wanted to add, my years in an agency, (I will not name here)
we often discussed this very topic. The majority of the men and women I trained and worked with,,, about 85% of them, had the same answer.
We need to protect or families and the people. The other 15% would go home and protect the ones they loved the most and anyone who joined them. Does this sound pretty much like the same answer? Except they would return to their home state and the base of their family.

In about 30 minutes, 7 of my old buddies will been in my house and talking about the old days and how things have change with each new Administration.

[edit on 13-3-2010 by guohua]





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