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Open letter to LEO, what will you choose

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posted on Mar, 11 2010 @ 10:08 PM
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Article archived from sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com

“Choose this day whom you will serve”
An Open Letter to American Law Enforcement.

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity. -- William Butler Yeats, “The Second Coming.”


Gentlemen and Ladies of American Law Enforcement,
There is a growing perception among many Americans that we are headed for one of those periodic moments in our history when our reactions to events will redefine who we are as a people, where we are going as a country and who gets to call the shots when we get there - what George H.W. Bush called “that vision thing.” This is happening in the middle of unprecedented external and internal stresses on our social order, the results of which you see daily on the streets.

It is going to get worse.
Odds are, it is going to get MUCH worse before it gets better.
IF it gets better any time soon, which I doubt.
And so, ladies and gentlemen of American law enforcement, the prudent among you should be considering this question now, rather than later: “What am I going to do when we get to "much worse?”

Consider first where we are.
The Justice Department's National Gang Intelligence Center estimated last year that there were over a million hard-core gang members in this country who were responsible for over 80% of the crimes. Other experts have suggested that when you add in the gangs’ “extended families” and wannabes, the number is closer to between five and ten million. As unemployment has increased, their numbers have likewise swelled.

But the gangs, as bad as they are and as great a threat as they pose to public order, are nothing compared to the larger problem, and that is this:
Respect for duly constituted authority and social trust are essential ingredients of civilization. These elements represent the basic glue of society.
Respect for duly constituted authority is, as every cop knows, at an all-time low. There are two general reasons for this, one systemic and the other so personal that if you look yourselves honestly in the mirror you can see it.

Systemically, “duly constituted authority” derives its legitimacy from the founding documents of our country, the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and from the Founders’ concepts of the rule of law. These have all been under attack for a hundred years or more by both corrupt political parties and their union and business familiars. The Constitution has become for some a joke and for others an inconvenient speed bump on the road to tyranny. As long as this degradation of the legitimacy of our political and legal system was perceived by a narrow portion of the population, it was manageable in a societal sense.
This is no longer true.
When a president and Congress robs one set of people to enrich their cronies, when they violate the settled rule of law regarding bankruptcy to stiff secured creditors in the case of General Motors while rewarding anointed unsecured creditors - their political allies, the auto unions - the rest of the population cannot fail but conclude that we are no longer under the rule of law, but the rule of men, which is to say, the law of the jungle. Or, put another way, they - "the authorities” - can do anything that the citizenry can’t or won’t stop them from doing. This is the societal Catch 22 we are now in (and have been for a while) that I call “Waco Rules.”

Other cases such as that of David Olofson, a veteran and marksmanship instructor and family man who was railroaded by the ATF on an automatic weapons charge when his semi-automatic AR-15 malfunctioned, and he was chosen for prosecution simply because the ATF did not care for his low opinion of them; have convinced many that a fair trial is no longer possible in federal court if an agency decides to “deal with” them. And if we are no longer guaranteed a fair trial in the federal court system; then if we are innocent and decide that we do not wish to play drop the soap with either the Aryan or Muslim Brotherhoods, our only guarantee is the right of an unfair gunfight when the ATF comes calling.

Remember that Olofson is merely one example of federal misadventure. There are many others, as there are plenty of similar cases in local and state jurisdictions. When the law-abiding rightfully no longer trust the law enforcers and begin to view them as a class of criminals merely acting under color of law, anarchy is not far away.
Yet, you will say, “don’t blame me, I enforce the law, I don’t make it.” True, but insufficient as an excuse, and here we get down to that look in the mirror.

My friend and fellow gun rights blogger David Codrea over at WaronGuns has a description for feral cops. He calls them the “Only Ones.” His daily blog is filled to overflowing with example of rogue cops, their partners who never rein them in and the prosecutors and judges who find reasons to go easy on even the most heinous of criminals with badges. You know who I’m talking about. If you say there are none of these currently operating or in the making within your department then you are either lying or uninterested in seeing the truth, which amounts to the same thing.

Everyone knows what happens to honest cops who “rat out” their uniformed criminal associates. They are hounded, despised, disciplined and shunned -- and that’s on a good day. Can you blame many of us who pay attention to such law enforcement corruption for concluding that you may merely be a member of an “official gang” as opposed to a freelance one?
Such dereliction of duty begs the question: If your excuse is that you don’t make the law, you just enforce it, and then you don’t enforce it upon yourselves, why should we be paying tax dollars to support “official” law breaking?

continued below




posted on Mar, 11 2010 @ 10:08 PM
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There is another image that many of you can see in the mirror if you choose to take an honest look - that of tax collector and nanny state bully boy. Yes, we know, you didn’t make the laws, some liberal puke with a control fetish did. But when you write speeding tickets for 3 miles over the limit because you’ve been told to write “x amount” of dollar value or when you pull people over for “seatbelt violations” at random roadblocks and then ransack their cars without probable cause, can you understand how such behavior eats away like acid on your reputation, both individually and collectively, as servants of the citizenry? What part of “to protect and serve” does that represent?

But worse than all that is the militarization of the police - in equipment, tactics and, worst of all, attitude - and the federalization of all law enforcement over the past forty years, but especially in the last ten. There were, last time I checked a few years ago, something like 750,000 full time state, city, university and college, metropolitan and non-metropolitan county, and other law enforcement officers in the United States. Add to that another 150,000 or so full time law enforcement personnel working for the federal government. With the growth of new agencies like the TSA during the “war on terror” (who, because of political correctness can’t seem to figure out who the real “terrorists” are so they merely oppress the rest of us in order to be “fair”) that number has certainly risen.
In any case, there are hardly enough Feds to work the administration’s will upon a nation so vast and a people so numerous, so much thought and effort has gone into suborning and subverting local and state law enforcement for federal purposes - “Joint Task Forces” and “fusion centers” being two principal ways. Yet, as the Founders quite clearly understood, it is one of the duties of local law enforcement, especially the county sheriffs, to interpose themselves between the federal government and the people of their jurisdictions when the federal government becomes oppressive.
Now, however, local law enforcement is looked upon by federal agents as force multipliers and willing stooges - “local yokels” in their parlance. And as a mark of how successful their campaign has been, many local law enforcement officers agree and happily lick the boots that kick them.

A recent case in point. Two county sheriff’s deputies showed up at the doorstep of a man out west who had expressed his contempt for Nancy Pelosi and and other federal politicians in letters and emails. These deputies, saying that the FBI had sent them, interrogated the man, threatened him “with Leavenworth” and engaged in intimidation of political speech. These local cops, having no jurisdiction to do anything of the sort, would have been laughed off of my porch here in Alabama and told to bugger off and return with real federal cops, if that was in fact their intention.
Too often these days, when the federal man says “frog” many of you merely ask “how high?”

Of course, if this intimidation had back-fired on the locals in any way, the Fibbies would have been the first to disavow them, leaving them hanging out in the legal laundry to dry. So when y’all are looking in that mirror, ask yourselves how truly stupid you actually are when it comes to enforcing an agenda and not the law just because the Feds ask you to.

Here’s the essential thing: you, ALL OF YOU, took an oath to, among other things, “preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.” You swore that, the overwhelming majority of you, to God. Did you think that oath had a shelf life? Do you think that now that you have by your reckoning faithfully upheld that oath for, say, twenty years now that tomorrow it is okay to forget it? You swore, whether you realized it at the time or not, an OATH, before GOD, and it was a LIFETIME oath.
While you are looking in the mirror, evaluate your career based upon that oath. It was not to a man, or an administration, or a political party but to an idea -- the idea of ordered liberty as codified in the Constitution of the United States of America. So ask yourself, did you or did you not intend to faithfully uphold that oath? Because the answer to that question is going to become very important very quickly as this politically divided and morally fractured society continues to spin out of control.
To quote Joshua, “Choose this day whom you will serve.”

Katrina showed us many things. It showed that in a disaster many cops will look to their families and not the public duty, leaving their fellow law enforcement officers with an even greater burden. It showed us that cops can be opportunistic criminals as well, partaking in looting with as much energy as professional criminals. It also showed us that the police no longer trust the law-abiding citizen with arms, depriving them of their only means of self-defense once the cops have moved on, leaving them to the tender mercies of robbers, rapists and murderers.

It is perhaps dangerous to make too large of a generalization, for there are many rural jurisdictions where this still does apply, but the fact of the matter is that by and large, the police no longer trust the people they are supposed to protect, and they especially do not trust an armed citizen, even if he represents no danger to the cop. This is standing the oath on its head. The people do not exist to serve the servant, but rather the other way around.
When a policeman pulls over a driver whose computer record shows not only the driver’s license of the vehicle’s owner, but the fact that they have a concealed carry permit, it is too often SOP for the cop to approach the vehicle, gun drawn, order the man or woman from the car, put them on their knees and cuff them before anything else transpires. These are not the acts of public servants but rather of an occupying army. And with each breach of trust, the glue holding society together is further weakened. For the more you distrust us, the more we are reminded to distrust you.

It is important to remember, Mr. and Ms. Law Enforcement Officer, that you need us, the law-abiding armed citizenry, one hell of a lot more than we need you. Just ask any criminal. Who is it that they fear most? The encounter with a policeman or a would-be victim who turns out to be armed? I tell you this uncomfortable truth and I hope you have the honesty to admit it -- the criminals of this country are far more scared of the armed citizenry than they are of the police.
It is not the fear of the patrol car that inhibits criminal behavior the most, but rather the prospect of screwing up and getting his brains blown out by a citizen in righteous self defense. And so, when you participate in citizen disarmament efforts, whether gun seizures like Katrina, or merely identifying otherwise friendly peaceable folks as “the enemy” just because they are armed, you are alienating your most valuable friends and empowering your most vicious enemies. Not to mention the fact that you are violating that sacred oath you took.

So ponder that deteriorating social trust that holds civilizations together, and then ponder this: the worst is yet to come.

What will happen when we are faced, God forbid, with some dislocating national disaster -- natural or man-made -- that makes Katrina look like a kindergarten playground? Now, even if you intend to run off like some New Orleans policemen did to see to the safety of their families rather than keep order in the city, you are still going to need the cooperation of the armed citizenry in your home neighborhood to protect your family.
You -- ALL of you -- law enforcement officers, will then need us, the armed citizenry -- ALL of us willing and competent to muster -- to defend public order against the tide of chaos represented by five or ten million gang members and the tens of millions of panicked unprepared refugees or opportunistic criminals left unrestrained by a breakdown.

Do you seriously think that federal police, all 150,000 of them, will actually help you in that event, beyond issuing orders that they will not be personally endangered with carrying out?
You will then be on your own, and you will have us. At least those of you will who have the sense to plan now to make that happen in the event.
You might start by remembering your oaths, by beginning to trust us, by refusing to engage in petty harrassments of CCW permit holders and by strengthening your department’s auxiliary program (or starting one if you do not have one).

But first and foremost you must quit looking at and treating the law-abiding armed citizenry of the United States as the enemy. For if you don’t, we certainly will be.
Convince us by your actions that you are no better than the gangs who commit crimes without uniforms and we will treat you similarly. And there ain’t nearly enough of you to shove us around in a real national emergency.
Remember, Americans are nothing if not a practical people. We're predisposed to help and support you. Please, take our hand when it is offered, BEFORE it is needed.

Sincerely,
Mike Vanderboegh
The alleged leader of a merry band of Three Percenters
GeorgeMason1776@ aol.com
sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com



posted on Mar, 11 2010 @ 10:13 PM
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Not only LEO, but us all need to answer this question as we look to the future and in the mirror. What do we see? What will we do? Will we stand against tyranny, or sit on the side lines and let the 3% do the work. Look up 3 per centers and what that statement means, you might find it very interesting to learn a little about our history.



posted on Mar, 11 2010 @ 10:44 PM
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Originally posted by drmeola
And so, ladies and gentlemen of American law enforcement, the prudent among you should be considering this question now, rather than later: “What am I going to do when we get to "much worse?”


There are 300,000,000+ million people in this country. 800,000 of those are current Law Enforcement Officers of all levels (feds, state, local, private). Most of the 800,000 already know the answer to this question, and just like me, it is to defend the constitution as WE THE PEOPLE. But the larger issue is and BIGGER question is...what are a majority of THE PEOPLE going to do. WHY? Common Sense. What if a majority of THE PEOPLE decide to rape, rob, murder, and show no concern for their fellow man? Kinda like many do now? You people always wanna know what cops are going to do...HELLO..we are a grain of sand in the grand sceme of things...you better hope a majority of THE PEOPLE aren't going to be the ones looking to screw you over to have a better life, get in good with the powers forcing such a hand. No one ever thinks of that, they instead think what will the cops do. This is a slippery slope that WILL backfire if THE PEOPLE (including me) aren't careful. The same cops you question may be the same ones saving your a@@ when the "mob" comes to rape your wife and daughter because "law enforcement" is no more. So I ask you again what are YOU and THE PEOPLE going to do, since your the majority here.


But worse than all that is the militarization of the police - in equipment, tactics and, worst of all, attitude - and the federalization of all law enforcement over the past forty years, but especially in the last ten.


Did you even bother looking at the rise in violent crime and militarization of criminals as well? Why do we as cops need better/bigger guns and all this equipment? HELLO...because the guys robbing banks, the street gangs running drugs and guns, and your average criminal are now armed to the teeth and taking THEIR tactics to a level that needs to be met with military like responses. The Hollywood Shootout...remember that 44 minute escepade in LA where 2 armed nuts tried robbing the bank with AK's, pistols, body armor, etc...and shot the crap out of innocent people AND the police. Why did it last 44 minutes and why did innocent people get hurt that day????? BECAUSE THE COPS WERE NO MATCH FOR THE FIREPOWER THESE TWO TURDS HAD!!! What does that mean? That means people were so worried about the cops having the bigger guns etc, that they forgot their are more idiots among the general population then there are in LE! So if it wasn't for wacko's doing stuff like that robbery, guess who wouldn't need bigger and better guns and toys? You guessed it!!!!!!!!


Here’s the essential thing: you, ALL OF YOU, took an oath to, among other things, “preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.” You swore that, the overwhelming majority of you, to God.


Yes we did. I did as a soldier AND as a cop. Have YOU? Has the citizens of this nation sworn anything to the consititution? I ask because it goes back to the first paragraph. What are a majority of THE PEOPLE going to do when this all, or if this all begins? Are a majority going to do the RIGHT thing? Are a majority going to turn to taking advantage of the situation and people? Again, the reality is the majority is THE PEOPLE, not LEO's. The ratio again makes us pretty insignifigant compared to the larger picture. So again I ask you, what are YOU and a majority of THE PEOPLE going to do? Do you think ALL people will take on the government, or do you think some will be lured to the dark side in exchange for better food, better clothing, money, and other essentials EASILY obtainable compared to hiding with us, or fighting for your next meal, and spending day in and day out trying to survive. Hmmmm, what will they do?


Katrina showed us many things. It showed that in a disaster many cops will look to their families and not the public duty, leaving their fellow law enforcement officers with an even greater burden. It showed us that cops can be opportunistic criminals as well, partaking in looting with as much energy as professional criminals. It also showed us that the police no longer trust the law-abiding citizen with arms, depriving them of their only means of self-defense once the cops have moved on, leaving them to the tender mercies of robbers, rapists and murderers.


I agree it did show us some scum cops, but it also showed us some very pathetic people. It showed the TRUE intentions of a majority and it showed us how many people are so spoiled and lazy that if the time comes for an US vs THEM scenerio, you better be focusing on your fellow man, not some LEO. Katrina showed how some PEOPLE (not just some cops) behave when faced with some challenges. My fear would be watching my back during such hard times. Not from just LEO's, but from the guy you THOUGHT was a patriot, who you THOUGHT was for this or for that. Katrina showed a lot...I totoally agree.



posted on Mar, 11 2010 @ 11:26 PM
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America is awake!

Overwhelming evidence has made it quite clear, that the sinister architects of 911 were rogue CIA and moSSad agents.

It now seems imminent, and no longer a matter of if but when, the critical mass of American patriots will be reached.

At that point, LEO’s will have to choose. Do you defend America and the U.S. Constitution or do you defend a corrupt federal government, a deceptive foreign "ally," and tyranny?

F.T.G.



[edit on 11-3-2010 by seasoul]



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 10:35 AM
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Hello rcwj1975,

First thank you for your post, I don’t remember ever seeing you around any of my threads before so welcome. I can read your passion, and I get the impression you are currently in law enforcement. I also know that your passion was directed at the original writer and not at myself. I come from a long line of law enforcement and I also have severed not only on the force but in the armed services. The good far out way the bad this I have no doubt, but I am reminded of and old saying. “The only thing evil needs to succeed, is for good men to do nothing” as more officers come forward and admit to the quota requirements, this becomes a double edge sword. First that is great to bring into light, especial if the people understand the reasons why they have been allowed to do this for so long. And the need to maintain some steady income flow into the system. But on the other hand it is a poor PR move, since most people out there do not appreciate you until they have need of your service. And in my opinion puts a negative spin on the populous.

Back to the topic of making the choice when the day comes, and it will come this I have no doubt. I recommend reading up on some of my other threads especial the ones concerning Shariah Law. Will you stand with the 3 per centers or will you blindly disregard your oath and do what the feds tell you too. When people think of corruption they think of the big things, like the one reason you gave for the more powerful equipment that was one out of thousands of incidents that occur. And for large incidents like the bank robbery, is the reason SWAT was put into place. But I am speaking about the everyday patrol officer, the ones whom are forced to make quota. Because they are the ones whom set the PR for the public. I have no issue with quota as long as charges are not trumped up, I understand the need behind them to keep taxes down and help pay for salaries across the board.

Now let’s speak for a minute about the smaller form of corruption that occurs. And every person in law enforcement is guilty of doing so. Before you get upset I will explain, for I myself was guilty of this small or unfair treatment. First it is well known that LE has the highest alcoholic ratted job, and how many times have you gone to the cop bar and was legally impaired but drove home any way? And did so with out worry of getting pulled over for intoxication or even being pulled to the side at a road block check point? How many PBA cards have you handed out? For those who may not know a PBA card is basically a get out of ticket free card. Or upon stopping a car that has broken the law in a manner of high speeding or running a red light or stop sign. And before you even get out of the car know you are defiantly giving this idiot a ticket. Then discover it was a friend or fellow officer in someone else’s car, and said to them something like. What hell are you doing, and of course let them go with a hand shake and a laugh. These are all forms of corruption; you can not choose to enforce a law only to those whom you choose that was not your oath. You either ticket everyone, or no one period. This is also the reason for the bad PR amongst the none LE, because every time they get a ticket, they know the only reason they got one was because they were not a fellow officer or a family member of one. This whole protect your own or for even a harsh crime like murder or violence again a citizen you get a slap on the wrist but the regular populist would be put behind bars and throw away the key. For this reason I left the force because I would not play there game. And when you add in the smaller corruptions not the tickets so much, but out right braking of laws that endanger others such as drinking or throwing your weight around or this whole I don’t give a sh*t attitude because your better than the rest and have a badge so I can speed and do what I want kind of attitude the corruption now becomes, not just the small few bad apples, but 85 percent bad and the few really honest good are hard to find.

So again I would ask the question when the time comes to fight and take back this country honestly and justly, whose side will you be on?

And I look forward to seeing you around my post; I will always answer any questions to the best of my ability. If I do not know the answer I will do my best to try and find or point you towards someone who may know.

Oh and just a little FYI, I would never call LE if someone is robbing me or trying to do harm to myself or my family, as a law biding CWP holder. I will kill them first, than call the LE to clean up the bodies.

As always God Bless You and Your Family and I personally thank you for your service.



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 10:51 AM
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1. It still amazes me how very little people know or understand the terms they throw about, especially when it comes to law enforcement. Probable cause? Oh, you have no idea what we are allowed to do, and what we actually do... and I do mean this in a good way.

2. For the life of me, I have never seen a traffic ticket issued for going three miles over the posted limit; if this is the case, I'd move out of that area if I were you.

3. I suggest you take the time and check out some of the wonderful posts by rcwj1975. You want to know the truth of things? Go to him... he is articulate and knows his stuff, and will not lie to you. Me? I get too defensive online sometimes, and may come across as sounding sarcastic (yes, I am in law enforcement).

4. Again, yes, LEOs swear to uphold the Constitution, as do soldiers... and as pointed out by rcwj1975, have you? You seem to have ignored that question with your little self righteous pat-on-the-back.

Why do people expect law enforcement to be boot stomping SS? We take the same oaths and follow the same path as the military. Do you believe that the military personnel are going to start shooting you or are going to start marching through your streets? Then why the hell would you think we would? Methinks you should ask yourself "who do you serve", or decide where your duties lie, and stop worrying about those who swore to protect and serve people like you.

See? Just a tad sarcastic.

And, for the record... I drank a hell of a lot more when I was in the service. A lot of drug use, too.

Does it make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing I'm also in a militia? Or does that make you want to think I'm only there to turn them over?



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 11:03 AM
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Hey Soothsayer,

Haven’t seen you in awhile but I have been gone, not sure if your post was a response was to me or the writer since I just posted it and then yours was there. I too belong to a Militia, and yes I have served not only in the Army but as a LEO as well. But I do have one comment about your SS and the whole same path as the Military. Almost all my friends have or are still active in the Military have said enough is enough, they will no longer follow orders blindly especially after the FT Hood incident. So I am sure that even if order against the populist to march and gather them into the camps that congress is currently trying to pass through can’t remember the current bill # have to look that one up. My point is the Military will be on the populist side and fight back against the tyranny of this government. And this is another reason why they keep our service members in theater and the numbers here at home on the low side because they have become of the now outward cry of no more from our service members.

Any way great to hear from you see around the site.

And thank you for your service, and May God Bless us All.



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 11:06 AM
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Oh and as far as the speeding ticket at 3 miles over never the 3 in my post refers to the 3 per centers Google it you might learn something. But I think you already know since your in the Militia, just must have miss read that part.



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 11:15 AM
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reply to post by drmeola
 



Take no offense by my post; sometimes (very rarely, says I with a smirk) I make a post to provoke responses.

Anyway...

I've been told that I have a conflict of interests being in a militia while serving as an officer, but I don't think so. It's still a matter of being there for the people... which is why I've been getting pissed (can I say that?)... peeved... at the threads bashing us LEOs all the time.

Just as a soldier, I am there for you. I am there to put my life on the line for you.

Yes, we have bad cops, and the analogy does come to mind, where "a few bad apples spoil the barrel". Did the Marines who raped that one girl a couple years back change anyone's perspective of that branch? No? So please, can anyone explain to me why a few officers have the power to influence you (saying this as a general term, not directed) to believe we are all corrupt?

And truth be told, I'd be more nervous about Obama's private civilian army he wants to form. Why do you think that is? He knows he can't control the military, he knows the LEOs won't back him up... so he's preparing a force that will do as he says.



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 11:25 AM
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I take no offense at all I enjoy it come from a long line of sarcasm, lol and I agree with you I did not write the original letter I just posted it and made a comment on it, it was brought to my attention through my Militia web site. Conflict of interest being in LE and the Militia hell no, I think all our brothers in arms be it past service members or local LE even the legally CWP holders should be active in there local Militia. We as Militia have a PR problem as well because most seem to like us together with the skin heads and KKK kind of groups, and truth be told they have no place in any Militia.



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 11:25 AM
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reply to post by rcwj1975
 


If you think that the MAJORITY of the American people would rape and kill if things went south for the system, then there is NO WAY you should be a cop.

You really believe so little in the people you are sworn to protect that you believe that MOST of them will turn into raving animals and that it will be YOUR job to make things right....dear God help us all...if you are typical for a cop, then that really is scary.

You miss the point; WE do NOT need YOU...YOU need US!! We outnumber you, by far. If the people really WERE so close to total personality change and so close to violent behavior, then they could get rid of anyone with a badge in short order, now could'nt they?

There are at least a few hundred of US for every one of YOU...and all it takes is ONE to take YOU out if it came to that, so your ' profession' seems no more stable than most others. I guarantee you that If it ever came down to chaos for a period of time, cops had BETTER be watching their P's and Q's and NOT acting like they are the final word on the law.

Can you imagine 1 or 2 cops coming up to a group of men and women who are armed..legally..and who demand their guns? when the group says " HELL NO", what are the cops to do. If they reach, they are history. It will either come down to cops doing the RIGHT thing, of facing the prospect of acting like guerillas at all times and knowing that the people will get the drop on THEM as often as they can get the drop on US, and realize that it is far too dangerous and the cost too high.

No doubt during times like that we would see cops and citizens drawing down and having gunfights over not giving up Constitutional rights any longer. the people will get fed up and tell the cops exactly what their jobs are SUPPOSED to be and expect them to follow that to a T... if not then they are gone..one way or another.

I recall during Katrina, a film that showed some regular guys, citizens, carrying their weapons away from their sinking home. Some Blackwater thugs with state police ID ( Yes, Louisiana gave state trooper badges to Blackwater thugs) and they demanded the folks turn all their weapons over. They did so, but I always wondered what would have happened if they had said NO?

Would the hired thugs with a badge have drawn down on the men? would the men draw down as well? These situations WILL happen in the future, assuming your scenario takes place, and all we can hope for is that the cops will refuse to try and take our rights away, and will join us in resisting illegal actions by any so called authority.

If not then they should know what to expect....it won't be something they will like.



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by drmeola
 


Isn't that the worst? Being grouped together with the negative side of things, like Klansmen and Skinheads...

People like that are worse for us then say, people who write comments like, ohh... richierich or something.

People don't break apart when things turn bad? Really? Can you explain riots and looting to me then, please. I'd really like to know how stuff like that isn't a result of people falling to chaos and anarchy, but rather how it demostrates how well behaved people are... how well they show self restraint...



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 11:37 AM
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Hello richierich,

Thank you for your post.

Truth is told may it be a natural disaster like Katrina or man made one, the time is coming and I fear that time is closer then I would like to admit.

I can only speak for myself, that in a case like the Blackwater thugs come upon me and asked me to surrender my weapons, the answer would be no way in hell. If they drew on me I would shoot and not stop shooting till my last breath.

Good post



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 11:42 AM
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There will be no self restraint it will be a fight were only the strong will prevail. It is our nature especially for those whom have no training, to riot and to self destruct and this will happen, time and time again we see this all too often but there is still hope, the fire will calm and in a day or so the people will start looking for leaders. And this is were we step in, as trained professionals to bring about a sense of order and safety once more.



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 11:50 AM
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LEO
Law Enforcement Officer

this is quite simple, they are there to enforce the law, no matter what the law may be. they are on the side of the law, simple as that.

an LEO is in no position to examine the constitutionality or justification of any particular law and, TBH, they don't really care.

in the US, the fact that they enforce unconstitutional federal drug prohibition should be the only indication that you need to tell you that they will enforce the laws they're told to enforce.
if they're told to round up potential terrorists, in the guise of CTers, and detain them in specially designed temporary holding camps, that's just what they'll do.

the war has started, they have chosen their sides, stop fooling yourselves.

[edit on 12/3/10 by pieman]



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 11:52 AM
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The first reaction to any situation is self preservation at any and all cost, that is why riots brake out, they have a word for it. When under ordinary circumstance a person would never be violent, but him in a group that is starting to riot and the regular person will quickly follow the crowd toward that destruction. And the bottom line is they only hurt themselves when a group does riot. I grew up in NJ, and was around during the race riots of Newark, the blacks were rioting and when the dust all settled they only destroyed homes and business were you guessed it, they lived or other blacks owned. Not to pick on blacks just happen that I was close to that particular seen. But the case remains the same those in riot invoke others to do so easily and without a quick response from LE to control the group they will self destruct.

Just my two cents worth lol



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 11:59 AM
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We cannot take the word of a few officers for the actions of the entire forces. The fact still stands that most police are stuck in two worlds. You have all the stress of the job, [that in a city we could not understand even a little of what they go through] Then they have to go back to a normal life and try to fit in. Must be exausting at times.
What we are missing is why are they police in the first place when they know the reasons for 99 percent of crime happining. We have seen that since just the start of the nuclear bomb program, it is fairly estamated that our gov has spent 35 trillion dollars on nukes- along with all the other monies spent foolishly in excess. Point ,our government has squandered monies that would have been used for education,medical treatments,housing,jobs,everything good. Investing in ourselves.
So i ask why be a cop when u know u work for and protect a corrupt government?
When i was 16 , i couldnt wait to join up and go to nam, father said i would have to wait till 18. Well between 16 and 17 all hell broke loose about the war. how we were not allowed to win. How collages were torn up all over the country, then kent state. When 18 i hated the government and was drafted. Before boot camp appearence nixon called off the draft. [good thing] Point is when we have a good, real cause all americans are and will stand togather. However if you know somathing is wrong,you must think, SHOULD I !!.
I stood down after finding the facts of the war in nam. After finding out our country was in the wrong. i signed my OBJECTOR papers and was planning on jail or canada, not war.
So why are all these service members , police not standing down when they know they are supporting a corupt government???????????? SIMPLE UNEDUCATED . THEY WHO SOLD OUT FOR HERO WORSHIP, MONEY, POWER,
Point ---STAND DOWN --for the war is against evil not people. When we get enough real patriots in the military to ask questions,educate themselves, they would become honerable again----As a whole - they are blind and compartmentilized-------sheep--WHO THINK THEY DO GOOD WHEN THE DO THE GREATIST HARM GET SOME BALLS COPS AND SERVICEMEN before you really need them when your government sends you to a resource war or to re-posses an americans home cause your gov stole all the monies from americans that would have helped that human being in trouble. Have the guts to say no with courage. That is Honor--i said no-and stuck to it. 1 day of iraq war would have given 30.000 collage tuitions to kids you bust on the street . Your government f**ked you and you are to dumb to know it-stand down-walk away-we can take care of ourselves just fine without u------------



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 12:00 PM
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Originally posted by richierich
If you think that the MAJORITY of the American people would rape and kill if things went south for the system, then there is NO WAY you should be a cop.


Really? Have you read the headlines daily for the past 10 years? Babies cooked in microwavesm kids molested daily, murders daily, rapes daily, people robbed for shoes, money, jewlery daily, and the list goes on and on...EVERY SINGLE DAY.....this happens WITH laws and police doing our best to keep it under control...imagine society in choas. Your to simple minded I guess to see that IT WOULD get worse...I personally wish I was wrong...I really do, but lets face it, I don't think I am.


You really believe so little in the people you are sworn to protect that you believe that MOST of them will turn into raving animals and that it will be YOUR job to make things right....dear God help us all...if you are typical for a cop, then that really is scary.


I believe in what i see and know. Again as I stated, EVERYDAY, people show what they are capable of, and thats WITH punishment looming if caught. Imagine no one around to catch them, or care. Also, i don't think I said MOST people, I believe I eluded to SOME.....boy, your alittle pissed that people are being stereotyped aren't you. Wait, don't you do that ALL THE TIME to ALL COPS. Hmmmm...anyway!



You miss the point; WE do NOT need YOU...YOU need US!! We outnumber you, by far. If the people really WERE so close to total personality change and so close to violent behavior, then they could get rid of anyone with a badge in short order, now could'nt they?


YOU obviously missed the point. I already eluded to us (LEO's) as being a grain of sand in the sceme of things. Meaning WE will be insignifigant. Guess in your typical hate you missed that either selectivly or because your, well! As for your attempt to again misconstrue the actual argument, I said people AFTER the law and law enforcers are gone some will choose to side with evil and do evil things. Why don't they NOW is your argument...well COMMON SENSE is there is still a force in place to bring them to justice and they know this. The OP mentioned Katrina, and we all saw what happens when the law goes bye bye...people do 1 of 2 things. The RIGHT thing, or the WRONG thing....notice how many were so willing to do the WRONG thing when law and order no longer patrolled the streets for a short time.



There are at least a few hundred of US for every one of YOU...and all it takes is ONE to take YOU out if it came to that, so your ' profession' seems no more stable than most others. I guarantee you that If it ever came down to chaos for a period of time, cops had BETTER be watching their P's and Q's and NOT acting like they are the final word on the law.


Again, you completely overlooked what I said so you could talk s--- and sound all billy bad a@@. You realize that if/when this day comes, there will be NO standing law enforcement. The only LEO's will be those that are looking for the government to give them what they need. I already mentioned this...PLEASE READ!!!


Can you imagine 1 or 2 cops coming up to a group of men and women who are armed..legally..and who demand their guns?


No I can't because I would never do it. Had you read anything I wrote, you would know this.


when the group says " HELL NO", what are the cops to do. If they reach, they are history. It will either come down to cops doing the RIGHT thing, of facing the prospect of acting like guerillas at all times and knowing that the people will get the drop on THEM as often as they can get the drop on US, and realize that it is far too dangerous and the cost too high.


the only plausible explanation to your responces is, you want to kill cops or make yourself out to be a patriot unlike any other. Again, COMMON SENSE SHOULD dictate here and tell you that if and when it ever gets to be this bad or in this much chaos, you will not have to worry about cops, but you better damn be worried about your fellow man you THINK is on your side, when in actuality he wants your guns, ammo, food, or women. Think thats far fetched...I was deployed to Bosnia and Kosovo...seen it first hand...and people EVERYWHERE are basically the same...once law and order are gone...the evil comes out in some that WILL gladly befriend you to get your stuff.


No doubt during times like that we would see cops and citizens drawing down and having gunfights over not giving up Constitutional rights any longer. the people will get fed up and tell the cops exactly what their jobs are SUPPOSED to be and expect them to follow that to a T... if not then they are gone..one way or another.


Again, your assuming and want nothing more to sit on your high horse and talk big. I will talk reality...and yes early on there may be some cops who think they have to listen to TPTB, but again, 300+ million vs 800,000....pretty stupid fight to get into.



I recall during Katrina, a film that showed some regular guys, citizens, carrying their weapons away from their sinking home. Some Blackwater thugs with state police ID ( Yes, Louisiana gave state trooper badges to Blackwater thugs) and they demanded the folks turn all their weapons over. They did so, but I always wondered what would have happened if they had said NO?


And this goes back to THE PEOPLE bringing it on ourselves. What I mean by that is, the scumbags who rob, rape, shoot and kill on the streets for no reason is why GOOD folks get the shaft sometimes. What have we as a society done about it? Nothing. We elect liberal aholes into office who appose crushing the scum. Instead we have jerkoffs trying to pass gun laws that would have NO IMPACT on the hoodrats who buy them for $20 on city street corners and shoot the gas clerk over $50. Then we have a society that believe the guy who shot and killed the mother of 3 working night shift because he felt like it, should have more rights then anyone else. Then when found guilty gets more free stuff then anyone else in society? So in this day an age no one knows who the hell to trust...and that equals a responce we wouldn't have seen a long time ago.


Would the hired thugs with a badge have drawn down on the men? would the men draw down as well? These situations WILL happen in the future, assuming your scenario takes place, and all we can hope for is that the cops will refuse to try and take our rights away, and will join us in resisting illegal actions by any so called authority.


The cops WILL, IMO, or atleast I know i will, refuse and stand side by side with their fellow man. But keep in mind, as I said, the government WON'T be the only ones you have to watch out for.



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 12:00 PM
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Hi pieman,

Thank you for your post.

First we are talking about in a time when the federal government sends down an order that clearly stated is against the constitution. And I will leave it at that.

But I do so love the ignorance of some. You want to field this one soothsayer, he is all yours.

never mind rcw already beat u to him. lol

[edit on 12-3-2010 by drmeola]






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