The Cryptoterrestrials

I've enjoyed listening to Tonnies on the paracast show last year. This book was mentioned in the tribute show, but was left passworded on the late Tonnies' laptop. It's good to see they retrieved it.

The cryptoterrestrial theory is great for thinking about. On the other hand, I'm often debating members in the Ancient & Lost Civs section to point out the utter lack of existence of 'lost civilisations,' 'forbidden archaeology,' and 'ancient advanced technology.' As far as I can see, those arguments still hold for cryptos.

Typically, not accepting one theory doesn't make the other any more true or accurate. The ETH remains a theory. I guess that leaves us no further along? Maybe not. The more ideas that are generated by UFO phenomena the better.

If, one day, it was found that extraterrestrial or interdimensional (including time) beings were maintaining ports beneath the surface or sea bed...I wouldn't fall off my chair. It would become obvious based on the claims and reports we keep reading and 20/20 hindsight.

On the other hand, if the next 70 years don't take us any closer to understanding UFOs and the stories around them...I won't be surprised.

@ Doomsday Rex...nice thread, but you had a hard ride for a while there...

EDIT for the Tonnies Paracast shows..

October 26, 2008 — Mac Tonnies

Cutting-edge scientific theorist Mac Tonnies holds forth on Martian mysteries, the Phoenix Mars probe, the state of paranormal belief systems, and various theories on the reality of UFOs.

Download link

November 1, 2009 — Mac Tonnies Remembered with Greg Bishop, Patrick Huyghe, Paul Kimball and Nicholas Redfern

We remember the late Mac Tonnies, author, futurist and Fortean, with a special tribute episode featuring his close friends and colleagues, including Greg Bishop, Patrick Huyghe, Paul Kimball and Nicholas Redfern.

Download Link

[edit on 13-3-2010 by Kandinsky]

Originally posted by Kandinsky
The cryptoterrestrial theory is great for thinking about. On the other hand, I'm often debating members in the Ancient & Lost Civs section to point out the utter lack of existence of 'lost civilisations,' 'forbidden archaeology,' and 'ancient advanced technology.' As far as I can see, those arguments still hold for cryptos.

Very true. I will admit I like the idea because it appeals to a part of me raised on old pulp fiction. However, the idea has holes big enough to fly a Pleiadian beamship through.

First and foremost, every civilization leaves detritus. As Cripmeister pointed out, they would have to very adapt at cleaning up after themselves. Though I'm sure those who subscribe to this theory would use that to explain why we don't, all the special pleading in the world does not change the fact we have no physical evidence of this civilization whatsoever. While it is true that archaeologists do find the remnants of previously unknown civilizations on occasion, we are not talking about broken pots or ruined temples here. For these beings to exist, they would have to have active industries, populated cities, would have to be gathering resources to support themselves and generating waste. We don't see any of that.

And I have to agree with Zaiger and EyeSeeEye. It is better to focus on what UFOs are rather than leaping to specific origins. However, I see no problem discussing hypotheticals from time to time, as long as we remember they are hypotheticals and purely speculative.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
However, I see no problem discussing hypotheticals from time to time, as long as we remember they are hypotheticals and purely speculative.

DR -as you've stated before on these boards, you believe that some UFO cases are truly puzzling and that the subject deserves serious scientific attention - can I ask you (hypothetically of course) what you think the true nature of these objects actualy are?

Cheers.

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

Hi all and OP,

I'm not totally behind Redfern as he's only scratching the surface of UFO/EBE research.
I don't believe most of the smaller disks and orbs are piloted by beings of any race (and there are a few I feel), inside.
Just remotely authorized probes to do certain tasks including protecting 'mother' ships.

See: George Adamski: Inside the Space Ships (free): Link:

unlimdownload.com...

Decoy

Originally posted by karl 12
DR -as you've stated before on these boards, you believe that some UFO cases are truly puzzling and that the subject deserves serious scientific attention - can I ask you (hypothetically of course) what you think the true nature of these objects actualy are?

I've wondering for 30 years now, since I had a frightening sighting when I was a small child. And I have found there is no explanation but explanations. We cannot know what UFOs are but rather what each sighting is. There is no over-arching answer. And I think those answers lean more towards the prosaic, albeit at times extraordinary prosaics, than the fantastic.

And I think it is very possible that alien life has visited this planet at one time or another. And if they ever do, I think the reality of it is far different than anything modern UFO mythology tells us.

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


See fear is the kidney energy -- in other words the cryptoterrestrials are the LOWER BODY manifestation of the electromagnetic holograph -- modern people are possessed by the lower body electromagnetic essence. Read "In Search of the Miraculous" on Gurdjieff for details or read "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality" translated by Charles Luk to get the secrets or practice springforestqigong.com... or check out www.youtube.com...

The '___' holograph is accessed so that external reality is internal reality -- Hell is the lower body and Heaven is the upper body.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by chunder
I think it is far less plausible than the ET explanation for a number of reasons -

lack of archeological evidence
historical "writings" and folk lore indicating an ET explanation
contactee descriptions

Forgetting the fact that in almost all cases archeaologists have very human and terrestrial explanations for such "evidence" can you tell us why you think it points to aliens over non-human earthlings?

It's the lack of archeological evidence of an advanced race of cryptoterrestrials that points more to an extra terrestrial answer for me.

Lack of archaeological evidence for them? That's not a very good reason to discount the theory, in my opinion of course =)

Remember, we have extraordinary difficulty in unearthing the remains of civilizations just a few thousand years old!! And you're trying to tell me that a race that has had millions of years to develop itself should just have crumbling monuments or other such evidence just lying around... Okay...

As for evidence of their current whereabouts, that is more interesting territory. Both for speculation, and for a platform from which to go evidence gathering. I have to pull out the age old argument here, and claim that their societies must be far more advanced than us. If they DO leave traces, we wouldn't have a clue what to look for. It shouldn't be hard for a reasonable person to see how an advanced race could leave no fingerprints, assuming they dwelled in deep underground bases. Hell we've had the technology to built tunnels beneath the sea floor for over 50 years now! Nutrition and energy would be optimized, waste in all forms minimized.

The fossil record is a different story. You do get scattered reports of anomalous skeletons being discovered, like the "Starchild" skull and those South American elongated skulls, pictures of which are all over the net. But that's a different debate, I'm sure they've bothb een discussed here before. Again, when we're dealing with an intelligent race that became technological hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of years ago, it's possible that they have cleaned up what little traces they once left behind.

The possibilities are endless.

[edit on 17-3-2010 by Son of Will]

[edit on 17-3-2010 by Son of Will]

Originally posted by samureyed
I suppose anything is possible, but without any substantial evidence I have a hard time believing that UFO's are from another species living on our planet right under our noses.

My mind has a much easier time accepting that they are either created by the human race or arrived here from somewhere far far away.

We know much more about our own planet than we do about the universe and what exists beyond the lens of our telescopes.

There is some evidence that UFOs are not all misidentifications or hoaxes. There is no more real evidence that they are from outer space than that they are from another dimension or somewhere on earth.

I joined MUFON twenty-five years ago because that organization professed a "scientific" study of UFOs and (I thought) wanted to lift civilian UFO study up from the contactees and the new age whack-jobs so prevalent in the field. Soon, MUFON was flooded with the very people it was formed to combat.

The word "evidence" actually has a definition. It would be beneficial to use the word as intended.

[edit on 29-3-2010 by Office 4256]

I'm kicking this for Mac. I didn't know him well, but a friend of mine met him at Paul Kimball's UFO conference in Halifax in 2006. I started following his stuff for a while after that. It's too bad he had to go so abruptly. I plan to pick up this book as a tribute to him.

The idea of cryptoterrestrials is interesting but I don't really agree with that notion. But it's always good to have a pair of eyes looking at a puzzle from a different perspective.

The theory in itself is quite plausible, but there are probably some good points against it.
I'm mixing here some of my own theoretical conclusions and your hypothesis.

Theory would be logical as far as i have heard all those abductees aliens apparently were themselves (without gloves, masks etc.). I find this rather odd. I mean there would have to be a way to ensure that there would be no risk of biological contamination for alien and abductee. So if these entities would live here on earth such biological contamination risk would be far less likely, because both abductee and "alien" would come from relatively same eninvironment.

Good theory as yours:
Intresting part in itself is Alien language. Many abductees claim that these aliens had three long fingers. What comes to written language what if these Aliens use all three fingers to write as it would be much more easier with these long fingers. It would be then plausible to assume that aliens use symbols which have three points or something like that.

Have been thinking about this lately for some reason. There just seems like something with this theory that makes sense but I can't make out why. Will have to research it more and probably get Mac's book, because it'll surely be a decent read.

Just spent ages looking for a site that had several of Mac's posts on his theory linked together, only to find that the site doesn't even load. Am going through his blog though and found this for anyone wanting a quick idea about his theory :

Keel and Vallee have both ventured essentially "occult" ideas in cosmological terms; both the "superspectrum" and the "multiverse" require a revision of our understanding of the way reality itself works. But the Cryptoterrestrial Hypothesis is grounded in a more familiar context; I'm not suggesting unseen dimensions or the need for ufonauts to "downshift" to our level our consciousness.

Rather, I'm asking if it's feasible that the alleged aliens that occupy historical and contemporary mythology are flesh-and-blood human-like creatures that live right here on Earth. Not another version of Earth in some parallel Cosmos, but our Earth. While I can't automatically exclude the UFO phenomenon's "paranormal" aspects, I can attempt to explain them in technological terms. (For example, I see no damning theoretical reason why "telepathy" and "dematerialization" can't ultimately be explained by appealing to cybernetics, nanotechnology and other fields generally excluded from ufological discourse.)

Source : Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - Posthuman Blues

And to save you going all the way through his blog if you want more, this at least narrows things down a bit : Posthuman Blues - Labels > Cryptoterrestrials

From the Pharoahs and High Priests to the Knights Templar to the Royals and now the Bankers and Billionaires; an elite dynasty is irrefutable

The military industrial complex builds secret aircraft so why not secret spacecraft. Whether such high-tech programs predate the 20th Century is an intruiging proposition..

this is an idea i've been entertaining lately.. i think all the lack of evidence or archeology findings about this ufo conspiracy could be caused by such a cryptoterrestrial civilization and others.
I mean if i was a guy who knew all of human history and truths of many sciences i could easily hide all true evidences as they come up in the world by myself, and maybe also fool the people that study these stories into believing something false, just for fun.
forget if there is a civilization of guys like this, that just don't want you to know, to learn something by evidence.
you can only accept that it can be true and explore the possibilities. Or be lazy on that and think about what this civilization wants you to think