WHY do people still count of polls as a good indication of anything? Other than presidential races?

Polling 1000 people out of 330 million is NOT accurate and it will never be.

It's just a giant waste of time when it comes to this sort of thing.

Polling needs to be done on a broad spectrum with THOUSANDS of people to even give a glimpse as to what the country thinks.

~Keeper

Being for reform is not the same as supporting government healthcare.

The GOP is not completely against healthcare reform by the way.
The problem is what kind of care we will be getting and who will gain from the American peoples loss.

Retake that pole and ask the same people if they want OBAMA"S HEALTH CARE and see what kind of answer you get. Big difference I bet. Besides, these polls are garbage because we all know what we want. We don't need some poll to tell us to follow the masses.

Obama's approval rating is ridiculous because of this healthcare game he is playing. I think that poll speaks for itself.

Ignoring whether or not the poll is viable another question that has to be asked is what does one mean when they say they want reform? There is essentially an infinite number of variables and opinions that can qualify as "I want reform" ranging from passing whatever that 2,000 page thing is, to doing away with insurance altogether and forcing people to pay out of pocket for all of their needs and even so far as to claim "I dont think Mexicans should be allowed to live."

Every one of those things qualifies as "I want reform" and none of them mean anything in particular to anyone else.

Which is why taking this poll and assuming the dems are on the right track with their phone book is absurd. Just as absurd as taking this poll and assuming anything at all.

I don't think anyone doubts that the current health care system need to be reformed. In fact I think most people want that.

What people don't want is the current Obamacare package that is attempting to be sold to us. As is, the bill is a very bad idea.

Originally posted by iMacFanatic
So much for the GOP claim that there is no support for health care reform in this country.

I don't know if I can agree with that. The GOP's argument is that the public does not support the Democrats' plan, not that there is no need for health care reform.

The Democrats can blame the GOP all they want, but the real reason that this has not passed is because the Democrats in the House and Senate can't agree on the provisions of a unified bill.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Which is why taking this poll and assuming the dems are on the right track with their phone book is absurd. Just as absurd as taking this poll and assuming anything at all.

You bring a good point. Both sides have voting record data demographics. If a pollster wants say, a more liberal slant, they randomly select phone numbers based in say, the Santa Monica, CA area they know their outcome will generally support their claims.

And vice-versa, if a pollster wants a more conservative leaning, they will randomly select phone numbers in say, Middle of Nowhere America.

Very scientific version of reading the tea leaves, which involves getting on the phones at 10 AM on a Tuesday and calling all the drunks, shut-ins, sociopaths, bored divorcees and welfare cheats and asking them what they think of the direction of the nation. Surprisingly, it's still fairly accurate, in the same way crashing your car into the grocery store counts as "driving there".

My opinion on this tiresome discussion:
If I ask a bunch of people if they want peace on earth, most, if not all, would say yes.

If I propose we have peace on earth by killing every human on earth (honestly probably the only way there WOULD be peace on earth) most people would say, "well I don't want it THAT way!". Even though the net result would be peace on earth.

Ok. So if one asks if the health care system is broken, most people on both sides of the isle would say "yes, we need reform". If you ask most Americans if they want reform in the form of a government run program, which are always run sooooo well, most people would say no.

I see this time and time again with the climate change issue as well. Yes, the climate is changing. Did we cause it? different question.

I often ask myself: what if there were no health insurance companies at all? Doctors could only charge what the market would bear.

They wouldn't be doing very many 30k operations. People would just die. Doctors would have to lower prices and following with that they would make less income.

It would be less lucrative for a student to want to pay $200k for med school as now doctors wouldn’t make as much. So the schools would have to lower their prices. Crappy doctors would go out of business or be dirt cheap. If you were poor you could afford a crappy doctor. Not fair? You’re poor, you don’t get the same as someone who isn’t poor any more than I can afford to eat at the restaurants or stay at the resorts rich people go to. If you want a doctor who went to Harvard med school you better have money. But not this retardedly high rates, only what the market will bear. If a doctor with high credentials can’t get enough rich people to afford his rates, he would have to lower his rates.

There would be no more HMO plan to keep crappy doctors employed with fixed rated HMOs (which is what the gov plan would be). The better doctors already don’t take some of the crap HMOs because the rates are too low.

I can imagine that doctors would start to get competitive – what? What did the stupid conservative blogger say? Say it with me – Competitive!

I can see family doctors offering special rates on commercials, like “come in to Doctor Spanky’s new practice in your neighborhood and get free checkups for your whole family and free immunizations for your kids.” Or “Pay only $500 per year and get up to 50 office visits for you and your family”

Weigh any of that against paying 40% in taxes like in the European countries or Canada! How much is 20% of your income? (Assuming an arbitrary tax hike rate comparable with countries with socialized med countries) Do you really think you would use that much in health care a year? Or would it be the overweight drug addict losers you would be paying for? Is their diabetes you fault? Do you eat healthy and should you pay for someone who has problems because they don’t?

I think a program of guaranteed medical help for those who are in life threatening situations is necessary, but hospitals already do that and it just increases the costs for the rest of us. I do not think those people get laparoscopic open-heart surgery though, they get a bone saw and chest splitter. You get what you pay for and their service is free, but they do live, which is more than I can say for the people who lived before our more “civilized times”.

It’s real hard for me to support a government run program when every program the government runs is bankrupt or just lame. It’s also hard for me to support the program when I see people texting on their Droid phones while paying for their groceries with a WIC card! Incidentally, they usually have expensive hairdos, 200 dollar shoes and an array of other bling that makes me want to say, “take your 400 lb ass down to the doctor and pay for it yourself you lazy p.o.s.”

Get rid of those people and there will be plenty of charity health services run by the churches and other volunteer organizations to cover the gaps.

My 2 cents. Flame away.

Originally posted by iMacFanatic

So much for the GOP claim that there is no support for health care reform in this country.

Incorrect statement.

Republicans have stated that there is little support for health care reform as written in the current democrat house and senate bills.

Just about everyone understands that reforms need to take place. The disagreement is in how the reforms are done - big government takeover with higher taxes, and a lot of pork spending?

Or smaller, targeted reforms that take care of the real issues.

Seriously, who wouldn't support the latter example?

One more thing….

My company pays $16,000 a year for my medical insurance. Between me, my wife, and kids, we go to the doctor about once a year each. That’s $4000 a visit. I'm 41 years old.

Tell ya what, give me the $16,000 a year, for the 20 years of my career so far and I would have $320,000 in a medical bank account right now. Do you think that would be enough to cover a heart attack when one comes along?

What if I could gift some of that money to someone in my family who needed $500k worth of work done? Maybe I would, maybe I wouldn’t. To my 61 year old mom? probably. To my 90 year old grandma? we would have to talk about what makes sense. To my cousin who is a crack addict and has hiv from turning back alley tricks? yeah not so much.

Just imagine the FREEDOM people would have to make their own decisions with their own money. It’s such a new idea…this whole freedom concept!

Huh? What? Who’s Madison and Jefferson? Don’t confuse me with the facts!



[edit on 10-3-2010 by JonInMichigan]

I never said one way or the other which health reform they were in favor of.

Thing is if it doesn't happen now it won't happen. Part of the health care reform push is to reign in medicare/medicaid and associated costs before the boomers retire in mass so it won't be a total disaster. It is part and parcel of the Social Security crisis looming over the next few years...and once it gets going whole hog there won't be any wiggle room left.

That is why its now or never and the jellyfish should have phrased the whole debate that way so Americans would know what was the real issues were. Instead they let the GOP and their fear mongers set the tone over last summer and it totally obscured what was at stake. I blame Obama for this...he should have set the tone and tenor from the very beginning instead of sitting back and let it be stolen from him.

The problem is the GOP is so rabidly anti Obama that as I said in the OP that they are not acting in good faith.

If Obama and the jellyfish caved and gave the GOP everything they wanted they would still oppose it because Obama was for it.

Regardless whose health care reform it is people don't want to continue being raped by the insurance companies...they want something...and the majority want it to be bipartisan...

something the jellyfish and the GOP had better pay attention to.

[edit on 3/10/2010 by iMacFanatic]