I watched Clockwork Orange a few months ago. More recently I've been reading some economic history, as well as the utopian visions of early 19th century reformers. From these two vantage points I've come to the conclusion that the whole genre of "dystopia" is really about lowered expectations. Modern Western man after the Great Divergence actually lives in what would be a utopia to anyone in the 19th century; after all obesity related illnesses are a major problem for the underclasses in Western societies! Future dystopias in reality simply resemble the social structure and quality of life expectations which were the norm throughout human history, and are the norm across broad swaths of the contemporary world.

I think this applies far beyond dystopian fiction - the same thing is true of many visions and predictions of doom, whether fears that the European Union is creating a Brezhnevian (if not Stalinist) authoritarian government, or prophecies of collapse into violent anarchy. A lot of these terrible things being predicted are nothing more than a return to the past. Even environmental devastation is often nothing more than a fear of returning to the dirtier past - Eastern Europe is a hell of a lot cleaner than it used to be several decades ago when we had more progressive governments.

There are two possible explanations here - one is that we prophesy a return to an unpleasant past because we're not that good at imagining new and different disasters. I'm not sure about that one, as many prophecies of unfamiliar doom from ozone holes to nuclear war have been very popular. I don't think we fear returning to the specific ways in which the past was crappy, but to the crappiness of the past in a very generic sense.

I think there's reason why we fear it - prior to the Great Divergence we were all living in the Malthusian trap, where any improvement in living conditions was temporary as it would allow population growth which would quickly and inevitably catch up with the improved availability of resources, bringing living conditions back to subsistence levels. When times were good and people well-fed and happy, no matter whether because of improved methods of agriculture or because a large chunk of the previous generation died in a plague, they couldn't remain good for long.

We spent thousands of years evolving in a setting where those good times were temporary and doomed. It makes sense that we evolved the instinct to prepare ourselves and our offspring for the inevitable return to crappiness. It's really only been for few generations, even in the most developed countries, that we've been able to live at above-subsistence levels for a significant amount of time. No wonder that our instincts lead us to expect it cannot last, and why the idea of a doomed future is so emotionally appealing.

Originally posted by stmichael
If investors withdraw their cash from stocks and shares, where can it go?

There would be a "flight to quality" as always happens in a crash. Traditionally this is into Government stock, but that might be more dubious now.

In the first instance it would flow into...

- Canadian Debt
- Canadian Dollars
- Gold
- Oil

In the longer run, there was an excellent study done by the Investor's Bulletin, a Financial Times sister paper on this matter. They found that after every crash there is a massive real estate boom for 9 months or so followed by a crash in that as the cash comes from stocks and into land and property creating a second bubble with the same people who just panicked and who will do so again.

'Doomsday' has been weeks or months away for a good 3+ years now in regards to the economy of many countries. The day will come and go.

Originally posted by endlessknowledge
I think many of you are missing the real point of by focusing on OP's "confirmed" date. Yes to speculate and predict a set date for "doomsday" is a bit foolish, That being said, I think the "doom" is already here but most just can't see it. If you follow market trends and know anything about economics then you know that the numbers just don't add up and somethings fishy.

In order to keep the economy afloat UK and US governments flooded the market with newly created money supply. Supply and demand principles tell us that every time new money is printed your savings and income is diminished. That means your buying power is now less than before(known as inflation). With all this new money in supply, the value of gold should be over $2000 an ounce. To me this is a sign of a bubble that's ready to burst. When or how it happens no one can say for sure. It might not even be in one day but rather more gradual.

The point is that the system is broken and set up so that only a few can benefit at the expense of the rest. So to think nothing is going to happen and everything is peachy is more foolish than anything else. you might not see riots but you will see higher prices on everything at an unimaginable levels within the next year.

I couldn't possibly agree with this more. I really feel that the changes that are being made economically aren't necessarily through the back door; however, they're incredibly subtle. That being said, I feel that's one of the many reasons why a lot of people aren't seeing something that is staring them right in the face.

I also agree that 'doomsday' is taking it a bit too far, but the point is the fact that we can't put a concrete date on these things and expect the world to bend at a whim, if that makes sense at all. I think what should be regarded here is the fact that as you said, there is something fishy going on, and we should most certainly stay the utmost attentive. Great post, by the way.

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Hey OP, do you think that the UK economy is making the world stand on its feet ? That country sucks, victim of its Providence State status, and the only people to blame are the English who let this happen.
Do you think DOOMSDAY is the proper title? When I cliked on it I thought asteroid / atomic war / floodings / whatever... All I got was this lame topic about dates and economic data no one gives a damn about ( except you Britons )

Next thread, you gonna tell us that England is a police state? It's already one.
no offense

Let's drop the personal jabs.