What Really Happens In A Gunfight

reply to post by rcwj1975


Thanks for taking the time to reply.

As a retired Jarhead I too have seen my share of skirmishes.. he's right folks fear is right there at the top of the list. what keeps us alive is all the blood sweat and countless hours spent training, funny how when it was happening it seemed so damn fast but when you replay it later its always in slow motion...

I still train, why? because sometimes trouble comes looking for you.

Personal note I am grateful to those who went on to work Law enforcement. its a dirty job that few want but if not for you guys out there every day, things would be a hell of a lot worse than they are now tips my hat to you sir. and if your ever in my neck of the woods feel free to drop in and maybe we'll go drown a few worms... My homes always open to a brother in arms

reply to post by DaddyBare


Much appreciated DB! And New Mexico huh...hell I just may take you up on that offer. I got a friend (fellow officer) and former Marine working for Artesia. Gotta visit him sometime too...I'll make it a road trip...lol

Wow , this is my 1st post and a topic near and dear to my heart........
I have survived 3 close range shootings so I might have a little to say on the subject.

As a marine not a bump ,cut or ingrown toe nail .As a civie lost a kidney,some stomach, a few inches of intestine.broken ribs ect.ect.

What I can tell you is that it happens fast,very fast. You can train and train but it only readies you for situations that you train for. If you see it coming.

No one sane wants to be in a gun fight , because in a gun fight luck reigns supreme. That jacker with no training ,no plan and no mercy can and does win.
Not to mention the pros and semi pros that are out there,and the are out there.

What I can tell you is you will have fear but it only really hits you after and you will never be the same . I know that sounds like something you tell a kid but it is true. Some folks never are able to deal with the aftermath .

If you have to shoot do it without blinking or you may DIE or worse (yes there is a worse).
I have been lurking for awhile and from some of the posts I think 1or 2 of you know what I am saying .

A small note to FREQ, I pray you never confront that person who makes you understand what the truth is and if you do you live through it.

reply to post by basicposter


Thanks basicposter
I'm honored you picked one of my threads to pop your cherry on...
your among friends here so never doubt your welcome and feel free to comment on any of my threads, even if to call me on the line! that's what debates are all about ya know.

Welcome Brother Marine

Originally posted by Freq Of Nature
reply to post by Prof. Skrewloose

 

There is always another way that doesn't have to lead to death!

After your response though I'm not going to waste typing any more on this thread!

there is always another way?
its 2:41am.
you wake up to glass breaking.
you quietly head down stairs to investigate.
you are confronted by a masked individual.
you talk to him, expecting him to take the hint hes not wanted.
you get stabbed.
your family is next.
good thing you didnt grab your handgun before heading downstairs.

reply to post by rcwj1975


Well sir, I thank you for your service, as well as "DB"s and all others on this thread, also my sincere condolences to Daddybare, and all others that have lost a loved one to "enemyfire" be it in "civilian life" or otherwise...

I have been "shot" and "hit" more times in civilian life than I was in the service.. I was "shot" at more times in the service than I was in civilian life. but hit more as a civilian....

So therfore I am a big proponent of sidearms as a personel protection "tool" either open carry or concealed carry.. either way in my "opinion" you at least have the ability to defend yourself, either against a larger opponent or several opponents...

It does not always work, but it is a right under the United States of America,s Constitution, the 2nd amendment.. like it or not , US. citizens do have the "unalianable"right for the pursuit of happiness,.....etc, y'all know it.

And the right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed.. etc... (paraphrased) y'all know this too..... it is on the internet... as well as actually being written in ink, ( imagine that) god that is soooooo old school....

[edit on 15-3-2010 by SideWynder]

[edit on 15-3-2010 by SideWynder]

Originally posted by Freq Of Nature
Ask yourself why you need to be firing that gun in the first place?

What a waste of life

What a stupid statement.

We carry guns to protect ourselves and others around us, not to play cowboys and Indians.

If your life philosophy allows you to be passive in the face of certain and sudden death that is fine. Just don't call for help if you seem to find yourself in such a sitution.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by DaddyBare

 

I never understand when studies are done about what "survivors" did to stay alive...there is a good possibility that the ones that died did the exact same thing...and died anyway.

The answer is one of two things, luck of the draw (pun intended) and they were second best.

Originally posted by Freq Of Nature
Ask yourself why you need to be firing that gun in the first place?

What a waste of life

Good question Freq, perhaps you have the answer?
I'm not searching for trouble, but when it comes, there is a response.
I've added a pressure switch to my grip and a laser and I love it.
I wont be wasting any lives, just ending the ones trying to end mine or my loved ones.

reply to post by HappilyEverAfter


you know what I'm waiting for... A smaller version of the Burris shotcam
Three in one you get
An ultra-bright 120 lumen tactical illuminator and adjustable class IIIa laser add utility. And the compact, lightweight Shotcam™ (Takes Video) is easily mounted to shoulder-fired weapons as well as tasers.

It's a bit big still but it is a first gen... couple of years and should be every bit as small as standard under barrel laser is today, that's if they catch on

See the Shotcam here

[edit on 16-3-2010 by DaddyBare]

Let's not forget all of those confrontations avoided because you had a gun!

I can say from personal experience that before I carried a gun, I was quick to fight. Now that I carry a gun, I understand how quickly things can escalate, and I avoid confrontations at all cost! I am a much more patient and nicer to strangers, because I never want to have to make that decision about when to pull the gun.

Also, most people know that I carry a gun, and friends of friends know that I carry a gun, and since a high percentage of robberies come from someone you know, it has surely decreased the amount of people that would consider robbing me.

Also, if I am in a position that is volatile, and if I have to defend myself or someone that I know, I can act with much more confidence and assertion, because I know that I have the gun as a last resort. In most cases (every case I have ever had), this assertion and confidence is very effective at diffusing a situation. Kind of like hearing your Dad's voice compared to your Mom's. You know when they are serious, and you know when to move on.

Also, if I ever did have to pull my gun, I would never do it without the intention of using it, but there is a good chance that the mere sight of my gun would send a would-be attacker running. So that is another confrontation avoided!

There is really no good way to count all of these extra effects that carrying a gun has, and there never will be, but in my experience, having a gun on my person at all times for the past 15 years or so has been a great thing, and no stranger has ever even had to see it!

Originally posted by tjack

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
*snip*

my Ruger LCP, having a low-profile front sight needs some spicing up. In fact, I just ordered night sight paint and was going to paint the back of the front sight and add two dots to the rear. I will have to drill holes in my gun (EEK!) but I'm good with metalwork and can make a clean job of it. That should give me the sight picture visiblilty I'm looking for in low-light situations.

*snip*

[edit on 10-3-2010 by Asktheanimals]

Secondly, before you go drilling holes in your beautiful Ruger, look into "point shooting" techniques, which are faster and more effective in close combat situations. Although, I did apply a little white-out corrective tape to the front sight of mine, so it would stand out a little more.

Being halfway proficient in Point and Shoot firing makes all the sense in the world when the stats say you are going to be within 20 feet of your target. That means practice. Glowing sights are not going to save your butt if you need to bring the gun up to eye level before you squeeze the trigger. Point and shot means shooting from the hip, more or less.

Shooting box after box of shells as you look down the barrel is going to be a tad too slow in a situation where--as we all seem to agree--the other guy is already making his move. Learn to shoot from the hip. Use the human silhouette and foget about groupings in the little circles. Too many people confuse target shooting to defensive shooting. The former will rarely save your life, the latter just might.

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
...
Coincidentally, I went to our NRA banquet last weekend. We raised over $50,000 this year and set a new record for money and attendance. Thanks Mr. Obama!

[edit on 10-3-2010 by Asktheanimals]

Obama? Nah. You should thank all the kind people who work hard to send chain-emails describing how Obama is going to take your guns away. Obama hasn't done nearly as much to boost gun sales as all the alarmists have. I'm betting some genius in the weapons industry is responsible for starting the biggest false-scarcity sales-boom since Beanie-Babies were the fad.

reply to post by basicposter




well you ain't no virgin any longer..... welcome aboard....

Originally posted by Aliensun
Too many people confuse target shooting to defensive shooting. The former will rarely save your life, the latter just might.

This is dead on 100%. I don't know how many people confuse these two. I tend to never tell the guys I see at the range who I am (meaning my experiance), I simply shoot and train, but I have to laugh at how many guys come out to shoot and worry ONLY about their shot group. They don't worry about moving & shooting, weak hand shooting, weak side shooting, transition drills, malfunction drills, tube shooting, positional shooting, and a whole ton of other things that need to be FAR more important than making a 1" hole on paper. Granted make sure as you train your getting shots on target, but standing in a weaver or iso and thinking your getting better just isn't true. When your done your guns should be dirty, and I don't mean just from the expended powder, I mean dirty...as should you.

Also, another big mistake is people think comp shooters (like team glock) are bad a@@. I agree they are AWESOME target shooters and damn accurate, but their methods are practiced and they don't have contingencies. They also have pre determined targets and a course of fire without MURPHY showin up. So again, as Alien said, don't confuse defensive shooting with target shooting.


Also, with me military and LE experiance I point shoot EVERYTHING 25yrds and in. I haven't aimed in years unless I am out past 25yrds and need too. But realistically most firefights outside of the military will be at this distance closer. So as Alien is correct, practice point shooting and natural alignment...its worth it. Once muscle memory kicks in, you'll draw, point, fire and hit anything you want....

p.s. practice trigger control...90% of bad shooting is bad trigger control...

[edit on 3/16/2010 by rcwj1975]

reply to post by rcwj1975


RCW can you tell us any good places to find instruction on these excercises? How can the average non LE or military civilian learn this?

Growing up I was a competitive shooter for the NRA and my sponsor was ummmmmm gees the horse company Colt thats it!

From what I member the hardest shots to make are within 15 feet. The shooting ranges were always full of cops who loved seeing a kid in there and giving me guns and tips. so yea must be true people listen to this post!!!

also cops and the military are bad shots i learned. I always figured that was cause they get so nervous and have so much riding on their shots it makes them very nervous.

Originally posted by MikeNice81
RCW can you tell us any good places to find instruction on these excercises? How can the average non LE or military civilian learn this?

There are a bunch of quality training courses available nationwide. ALMOST any course put on by the NRA is worth the money, but if you want high speed training from guys who have SF, SWAT, Military, DOD experiance your going to pay for it.

If your willing to put some cash out front for some good quality training let me know and I will provide a list of friends that have training schools provided to civilians. It is VERY intense schools and I would only recommend them to those with shooting experiance. Now you don't have to be a sharp shooter or even ex-military, but you do have to be willing to learn, learn fast, and hang it all out there.

Again let me know and I will list about 8 places that provide what your looking for. Also, yes all 8 places are people I know from my days in the military or current in law enforcement, but NO I am not going to profit from this. I just want that to be clear.

Whenever I have been contacted I am Zen calm... That is probably because the British Amy trained me that way from a 16 year old....

To be honest if I am not hit, then I am listening to the crack and thump of the rounds flying over my head.. If i cannot locate the enemy by sight then using the crack and thump method I can determine their distance... Then I would fire into likely firing points.. If that did not work then I would draw their fir in order to determine their location.... Once their position is clear then I would mortar their asses into oblivion, or call in fast air, or artillery...

However once the fire fight is won then you must clear the enemies position... That is done by suppressive fire on them whilst you approach... The fire keeping their heads down so they cant see you flanking them... But when you get to the position you post a grenade.. Then fill it with a full magazine, and anyone else alive you get with your bayonet because you have no time for anything else...


That is automatic to the British soldier...... The hard part is going food shoppingwith your wife when you leave..

[edit on 18-3-2010 by Yissachar1]

Originally posted by Freq Of Nature
reply to post by Prof. Skrewloose

 

There is always another way that doesn't have to lead to death!

After your response though I'm not going to waste typing any more on this thread!

I pray, for your sake, that you never are forced to live in the real world, where Ish CAN and DOES happen.