Oh, Well--They're Just Dead Christians! , page 1
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 4 times
Topic started on 9-3-2010 @ 02:44 PM by FortAnthem
Massacres against Christians in Nigeria have sparked no outcry from the UN or the world community. It has come to the point, it seems, that violence against Christians in Muslim countries is to be expected and is no longer even deemed to be newsworthy. Or maybe nobody cares because they're dead, BLACK Christians?



Archbishop: 'Face to face with Satan' in Jos, Nigeria

Thousands have been killed in religious clashes in Nigeria. In a recent article in Christianity Today, Archbishop of Jos, Ben Kwashi, described the confrontations as coming 'face to face with Satan.'

Yesterday I interviewed Archbishop Kwashi by telephone for our report in today's Times. He said he began to hear about the massacres as he was conducting a confirmation service. A messenger from one of the three predominantly Christian villages attacked ran to the church where he was celebrating, to show him photographs of the massacres on their digital cameras.



As the day went on, he heard about the two others. He went to one of the villages to look for himself but decided to stay on the boundaries and not get too close as he could not cope with the stench and the terrible wounds he saw on babies and children in particular.

He believes the Muslim occupants of the villages were tipped off as they all left before the massacres, he reported. Also, he believes a significant organisation was behind the killings because they happened during curfew with the army in the area, as it has been since the January killings.

Nearly all the photographs received at The Times have dead children in them. They are too distressing for publication here.

The Archbishop said: 'It was not a good sight at all. The villagers had no chance whatsoever. They were slaughtered. I could see machete wounds in the necks of children. Kids from age zero to teenagers, all butchered from the back, macheted in their necks, their heads. Deep cuts in the mouths of babies. The stench. People wailing and crying. Some have lost their voices. I could not stand it. From what I saw from a distance, it was over 100 killed in one village. I don’t know what sparked it off. I thought we were making headway after the previous crisis in January.

-----------------

Nigerian Best Forum has more: 'Some witnesses said villagers were caught in fishing nets and animal traps as they tried to escape and were then hacked to death. Mud huts were also set on fire.'

Jonathan Rivlin of The Henry Jackson Society says: 'It is unacceptable that the United Nations, African Union or any other international or religious group has yet to comment or call for any action on the ongoing religiously fuelled massacre.

'Where is the Vatican? 500 Christians have just been murdered and yet again no comment.

'Seeing that it’s fundamentally Muslims versus Christians, it’s time for religious leaders to stand up and condemn this sort of violence.


Read more:
Times Online


[edit on 9/3/10 by FortAnthem]


reply posted on 9-3-2010 @ 02:58 PM by happygolucky
reply to post by FortAnthem



From source:

January’s riots led to about 500 mostly Muslim people being killed after fighting broke out in Jos between Christians and Muslims.



Sounds like payback...and then some. An eye-for-an-eye, huh..? Or in this case, a limb-for-a-limb....


Did you start a thread that covered the January attack on muslims Fort..?


I saw that you started a thread on elephants killing christians, but nothing about christians killing muslims...





Another thread from you that is bias in nature...





reply posted on 9-3-2010 @ 04:20 PM by FortAnthem
reply to post by happygolucky




Fine, in the interest of fairness, here's the report of the earlier violence:


Christian-Muslim violence in Nigeria warrants probe, rights group says


Lagos, Nigeria (CNN) -- Reports of at least 150 Muslims killed in recent religious clashes in Nigeria should be investigated, a human rights group urged Saturday.

Witnesses told Human Rights Watch that armed men attacked Kuru Karama in central Nigeria on Tuesday, "killing many as they tried to flee and burning many others alive," the international organization said Saturday.

Those interviewed by the group said they thought the attackers were Christian, Human Rights Watch said. But even Christians were not spared. When a Christian pastor tried to stop the attacks he was beaten, a Muslim imam told the group.

Read more: CNN



Yeah, 500 Christians for 150 Muslims, that sounds fair.

[edit on 9/3/10 by FortAnthem]


reply posted on 9-3-2010 @ 04:23 PM by hippomchippo
Originally posted by FortAnthem
reply to
post by happygolucky




Fine, in the interest of fairness, here's the report of the earlier violence:


Christian-Muslim violence in Nigeria warrants probe, rights group says


Lagos, Nigeria (CNN) -- Reports of at least 150 Muslims killed in recent religious clashes in Nigeria should be investigated, a human rights group urged Saturday.

Witnesses told Human Rights Watch that armed men attacked Kuru Karama in central Nigeria on Tuesday, "killing many as they tried to flee and burning many others alive," the international organization said Saturday.

Those interviewed by the group said they thought the attackers were Christian, Human Rights Watch said. But even Christians were not spared. When a Christian pastor tried to stop the attacks he was beaten, a Muslim imam told the group.

Read more: CNN



Yeah, 500 Christians for 150 Muslims, that sounds fair.

These conflicts have been happening for years, it is alot more than 500 christians and alot more than 150 muslims, i don't understand why you need to make this into muslim vs christianity thread.


reply posted on 9-3-2010 @ 04:24 PM by davesidious
reply to post by FortAnthem



"Fair"? What are you on about. It's reciprocal violence. If you think that's fine as long as the numbers lost on each side is equal, then that's disgusting.

You also seem to think that the violence is due to religion, yet haven't demonstrated that. It might just be various towns clashing over scarce resources, which just happen to have different religions (as is common in many parts of the world).

It's like you're actively busting a gut to play the Christian victim card.



reply posted on 9-3-2010 @ 04:43 PM by hangedman13
reply to post by davesidious



Or you are just attacking a thread due to a personal bias against Christians. Islam still holds to the old "the guy who can read this make the rules" mentality. Just like Christianity did and still does in poorer areas. All religions get hijacked by those who would twist it to further their own agendas. Illiterate people are told what the writings mean by someone who can read it. Care to deny that thinking?


reply posted on 9-3-2010 @ 04:46 PM by yodagod
reply to post by happygolucky





An eye-for-an-eye, huh..? Or in this case, a limb-for-a-limb....

Indeed, looks like the gods are fighting again so terribly sad that they have to use poor and ignorant humans to sort out their petty divine squabbles.


reply posted on 9-3-2010 @ 04:48 PM by yodagod
reply to post by hangedman13





Illiterate people are told what the writings mean by someone who can read it. Care to deny that thinking?


More like gullible people and those that pretend to understand what they've read, you can then apply it to any population in the world the deception is the same whichever pulpit it comes from.


reply posted on 9-3-2010 @ 05:05 PM by pthena
reply to post by getreadyalready

How does this type of thing continue? How is there anybody left alive in that village? I would have run headlong to my own death in defense of these strangers. How is this archbishop still alive?

I heard an interview from one of the witnesses. Basically, the men were faster at running away than the children and old people.

From another interview, it seems the underlying reason for the violence is a serious inequitable access to goods and services. Nigeria seems rather strange, similar to what some in the US think they want. Central government exists to be military only, in fact Nigeria is largest contributor of AU forces. Other services are dependant on 36 provincial governments, like education, medicine, electricity. You must be an official resident of a province in order to get anything from that province. Simply moving doesn't quite do it for you. Many people are basically disenfranchised.

But still, I don't see what the violence comes from unless it's to kill off those who would be crowding the classrooms or causing large lines at the clinic. Seems like fighting over scarce resources to me. Maybe strong central government should do more than just military.

english.aljazeera.net...
Our correspondent quoted police as saying that the attackers were Muslim Hausa-Fulani herders while the victims were mainly Christians from the Borom community.

But she added that while many people would view the violence in a religious context, people she had spoken to said the violence was about indigenous groups, who are mainly Christian, and migrants and settlers, mainly from the Hausa-speaking Muslim north, competing for access to resources.
...
The violence appeared to be reprisal attacks following the January unrest in Jos when most of the victims were Muslims, Robin Waubo, a Red Cross spokesman, said.





[edit on 9-3-2010 by pthena]

[edit on 9-3-2010 by pthena]


reply posted on 9-3-2010 @ 06:31 PM by davesidious
reply to post by hangedman13



I won't deny it - it's true. I'm merely saying there was no evidence cited that these attacks were religiously-motivated, which would have to be the case if those in question were being killed because they were Christians, which seemed to be what the OP was getting at.

I've got nothing against Christians that I don't also have against followers of any other religion. I despise the petty, intellectually-dishonest nature of them all.


reply posted on 9-3-2010 @ 06:45 PM by captaintyinknots
Originally posted by hangedman13
reply to
post by davesidious



Or you are just attacking a thread due to a personal bias against Christians. Islam still holds to the old "the guy who can read this make the rules" mentality. Just like Christianity did and still does in poorer areas. All religions get hijacked by those who would twist it to further their own agendas. Illiterate people are told what the writings mean by someone who can read it. Care to deny that thinking?


Christians have tried to make the rules for everyone for a very long time. Dont throw rhetorical strawmen out there. They arent valid.

The truth is, both of these groups are wrong.

Yet people still seem to think that THEIR POV is the only correct one.


reply posted on 9-3-2010 @ 07:14 PM by vox2442
I've been wondering about this story's treatment, to be honest.

It's been given quite a lot of coverage here:
english.aljazeera.net... : it's not the main story at the moment, but it has been the headline on and off over the last few days. Everyone else seems to be treating it as a minor story.


reply posted on 9-3-2010 @ 07:22 PM by Rockpuck
reply to post by FortAnthem




Where is the Vatican? 500 Christians have just been murdered and yet again no comment.


Everyone hates the Vatican until they need them. However, the Vatican's power has gone, there is none left.. the Pope, a political figurehead over a useless bureaucracy.. but even if they could do something, and did do something, people would blast them from the secular left for interfering.
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