NanoKnife: Cancer Breakthrough Without Radiation or Drugs

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posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 04:31 PM
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reply to post by XPLodER
 


XPLodER.....


thanks for the information


You are very welcome!



this is important stuff


I agree.....it is extremely "important stuff".


are you in the feild of resurch for all this stuff? you seam to know alot about it are you a phd?


I am university qualified in both medical & business areas.

I run a large medical business that specialises in the R&D & deployment of such fascinating new medical technologies.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not




posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 05:24 PM
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reply to post by Maybe...maybe not
 


i think it might be apropriate to share a idea i read about a long time ago i dont know the terms so please bear with me

when cells change from sexual cells to adult cells mi osis to mi tosis
they go from all the same to each individual cell type the body requires

all cell groups "talk" to each other (dont ask me how) but this constant comunication weather electrical or chemical lets all the cells in that group know that all is ok with the system they are in so the exibit no suacidal tendencies

when one cell disrupts this conversation or mutates all the cells start talking about it and decide to tell the cell to comit suacide if it doesnt self terminate the cells decide tosurround it in protective tissiue to stop the proliferation of the conversation or replication

each cell type has its own language (different) but can understand a master language (common)

each cell group has a frquency that resets the conversation (different)
but using the common frequency(common) the cells can also be reset

following this theory is kinda hard to do without proof but bear with me

having a good understanding of the way cells self regulate could lead to providing them with a reset or die command with each type comunication on their frequency

now frying cells with pure electricity could be triggering these cells to realise they are not working correctly and they then comand the other mutated cells in there language to self terminate

this is important as some cells not destroyed by the probes could recreate the problem

thats were the queens land compound comes in to mop up any cells that are left

just my strange perception of whats going on at a cellular level

xploder



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 05:39 PM
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reply to post by XPLodER
 


XPLodER.....

One of my daughters has just majored in advanced cellular biology & physiology.

I will also run this by her for her commentary.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 05:51 PM
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reply to post by Maybe...maybe not
 


i would use the anology of heart cells is a petri dish spontaniously contracting in unision

there is a comunication going on that is key here between cells

not sure how to put it for you
but thanks i will be interested to hear her opinion

xp



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 06:23 PM
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Originally posted by Maybe...maybe not

I run a large medical business that specialises in the R&D & deployment of such fascinating new medical technologies.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not


BRAVO!!! Full disclosure. Wow. Hats off.

I sincerely hope you're being paid well. You're good.


...You've been most helpful and responsive in addressing questions and concerns, but missed my last post (last on the page, a few back) - leaving some unanswered questions.

I hope you're able to get back to them.

Thanks much, and best wishes,
sofi



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 06:37 PM
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Heart cells spontaneously contract in unison. They contract at all in response to what is called an action potential -- a positive feedback loop across the cell membrane (that is, between the inside of the cell, and the outside of the cell). The cell membrane is a layer of phospholipids (basically a double headed chain of fat), cholesterol, and embedded proteins. These proteins can open to allow ions to flow in and out of a cell.

These ions will want to flow because there is a charge difference: Na+, or sodium ion, will want to flow into a cell if it is more negative than its surroundings. Conversely, Cl-, or chlorine ion, wants to move from a more positive space to a more negative space. Normally, a cell is kept at a resting voltage of around -70mV. Simply, this means that the inside of a cell is more negative than the space outside of the cell -- positive ions will want to enter the cell, and chlorine will want to exit the cell. To maintain this charge, proteins embedded in the cell membrane actively, and using energy (which is why you die without food), pump positive ions out of the cell to maintain this gradient with its environment.

I just mentioned an ion pump with is active, but there are also ion channels which allow, without energy and down a gradient (relying on this charge difference), ions to enter or leave the cell. This is often specific to certain ions -- one channel may let potassium flow, but not chlorine. These will open in response to a variety of factors: chemicals, light (channelrhodopsin/Chr2 in some organisms but not humans), or, most importantly cellular voltage (in excitable cells).

So if your cell is resting at -70mV, and you open a channel which allows positive ions to enter the cell, it will depolarize in a graded fashion. That is, the cell voltage will rise (become LESS negative) in a way which is proportional to the amount of positive ions which enter the cell. This may bring the cell to -60mV. After the channel is closed, the cell will move back to -70mV. But if you keep depolarizing the cell to its action potential threshold in an excitable cell -- that is, a muscular or nervous cell, or something else capable of generating this action potential (your skin for example will not do this) -- it will open ion channels which cause the cell to FURTHER depolarize. In nerve cells this is ~ -55mV. Upon hitting -55mV, the proper ion channels will open and cause the cell voltage to very abruptly rise to +40mV to almost +100mV. The cell will then reset (passing through a period of hyperpolarization, where it is more negative than -70mV, before retuning to 70mV).

This picture from Wikipedia helps:
upload.wikimedia.org...

Sorry for that long winded explanation but this is the basis of electrical communication. Chemical communication is arguably more common but I care less about that because I'm not a biochemist.

Anyway, heart cells contract in response to this change in voltage. Read about actin and myosin for more details (wikipedia is nice). Essentially, in a muscle cell, the massive rise in voltage due to the action potential either directly or indirectly releases calcium from a storage organelle inside of the muscle cell called the sarcoplasmic recticulum. The calcium causes a protein called tropomyosin, which is blocking the long molecular filament of actin from connecting other parallel filaments of myosin, to move out of the way so myosin can bind. Both actin and myosin are anchored to parts of the muscle cell called Z-disks; a myosin filament is connected to two Z-disks, while an actin filiament connects to only one. Since I'm bad at this, here's a picture, also from wikipedia:
upload.wikimedia.org...
Note that the M-line is right between both the Z-disks and actin filaments.

After they connect, the end of myosin connected to actin shifts, moving the actin. This is done such that the actin chains are pulled toward one another as in the picture. This shortens the space between the Z-disks. As this is done throughout the muscle cell in the same direction, therefore shortening, or contracting, the muscle.


Now on to what you were talking about, which is a little less exciting to explain since I already described what an action potential was. If you put a bunch of baby heart cells (I see this done with cells from neonatal rat ventricles) next to one another in culture, they will connect to one another through what is called a gap junction. A gap junction is just essentially an anchored pore connecting two adjacent cells. It's a hole in the cell membrane that connects to the other cell. So, when you have an action potential in one cell, it spreads to the other via this gap junction.

Why do cells beat on their own? Because in the aftermath of returning to resting voltage, calcium, Ca2+ is allowed to enter the cell faster than positive ions, particularly potassiun K+ can leave it, creating a net influx of positive ions. This reaches -55mV and stimulates another action potential.

[edit on 27-8-2010 by Johnmike]

[edit on 27-8-2010 by Johnmike]



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 06:58 PM
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reply to post by Johnmike
 


The first wiki post reminds me of a electro chemical transistor that is signalled with different chemical potentials

The second link did not work but the rest of the post explains the communication i was talking about is in actuality that common cells join skins and allow pooling of chemical resource that links them electrically

Mmmmm gets me thinking again

Thank you very much i will be forming a theory very shortly about the potential chemical and potential electrical systems and there interaction in a mechanical sence and the posabilty to regulate electro chemical expression between cells as part of restoring cell health of common cell types

Thank you very much
xploder



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 07:05 PM
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reply to post by XPLodER
 


I fixed it. I think.



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 07:19 PM
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reply to post by Johnmike
 


file extetion svg unkown file type error
i will atempt to download a fix and report back
thank you

xploder



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 07:35 PM
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I have removed my reply to Soficrew because I wrote it impolitely & in haste.

[edit on 27-8-2010 by Maybe...maybe not]



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 08:04 PM
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Originally posted by Maybe...maybe not
reply to post by soficrow
 


Soficrow.....

I stated that was my job when I first joined ATS.

I have subsequently restated that about 10,000 times.


Missed it. Miss a lot.




You seem unhappy about that - please advise as to your position.


NOT unhappy - was quite impressed that you were totally open and disclosed conflict-of-interest. Don't know where you got that I "seem unhappy about that" -


Originally posted by soficrow
BRAVO!!! Full disclosure. Wow. Hats off.

I sincerely hope you're being paid well. You're good.


...You've been most helpful and responsive in addressing questions and concerns,

...Thanks much, and best wishes,
sofi


Did you think I was being sarcastic? ...Wasn't. Meant it sincerely. ...I see a lot of people pushing products here lately - you're the ONLY one I've seen disclose personal-related financial interest.

My POSITION - I think NanoKnife is a good -and much-needed- product. As I said before, I will avoid ANY invasive intervention unless absolutely necessary - and now that I know about the NanoKnife, will request that any required surgery be performed with that technology if possible, provided the claims are substantiated.

Friends?
sofi







[edit on 27-8-2010 by soficrow]



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 08:11 PM
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reply to post by soficrow
 


Soficrow.....

OK.....sorry about that......I was being over-sensitive due to some other negative responses that I'd received.

I have removed my reply to you, because I feel it was hasty & impolite.

Friends? .....for sure!


Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not


[edit on 27-8-2010 by Maybe...maybe not]



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 08:19 PM
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Originally posted by Maybe...maybe not
reply to post by soficrow
 


Soficrow.....

OK.....sorry about that......I was being over-sensitive due to some other negative responses that I'd recveived.




Been there, done that. It's all good.

FYI - I'm the ATS Prion Queen - ask anyone who's been around for a while - I tend to be quite persistent with my questioning if I think prions are pertinent to discussion, and do happen to think they are pertinent to virtually any/every medical/biological consideration.



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 08:32 PM
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reply to post by soficrow
 


Soficrow.....

OK! .....where were we?


As soon as I complete a couple of other things, I'll go back to the questions you asked me.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 08:41 PM
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reply to post by Johnmike
 


ok here goes
my cell theory
there is an electrical signal responce (electrical)
there is a chemical interaction with the electrical (chemical)
which creats an electro chemical transistor connected in series with one another the cells act to store chemical potential energy until voltage overcomes the impeadence of the cell membrane and ion transfer occours releasing the potential voltage down to a lower limit
like the a zenner diode

when a cell malfunctions (blown tansistor) its chemical potential is inconsistant with its neibours and causes an avalanch of voltage being forwarded to the suspect cell this extra chemical potential is then a battery/power source for the cell and cant self terminate
if this extra potetial effects the part of the cell that controls cell reproduction it becomes cancerous

it cant hear the demands of the other cells because of the electrical and chemical noise created by being over charged with potential energy
by inducing a pathway through the cell the energy is reset and the cell can then comunicate and follows the instructions from the other cells to self terminate

not sure if looking at cell function like electronics is the right way to go about it but

thats my theory

xploder



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 10:53 PM
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reply to post by XPLodER
 

I'm not sure why you say transistor. There's no signal amplification or switching in the transistor sense.
Edit: Unless we're talking about transmitting signals on a macro scale, i.e. a nerve


What I referenced via my mention of ion channels and action potentials is the Hodgkin-Huxley model. While the original H-H model in the 1950's had the ion channel functioning wrong, it did properly describe the action potential I describe and which is accepted as the most reasonable theory of both muscle and nervous function.

en.wikipedia.org...

If you are the electrical type, here is the "circuit diagram" of the cell from the H-H model:




Note the membrane acts as a capacitor due to the ion concentration gradient across it. Ip represents the active ion pumps I described. gn and gL are the ion channels I described (there are two general types -- linear and nonlinear, which is why they're shown as two here). The battery adjacent to gn and gL are the electrochemical gradients driving the movement through the ion channels, and the numerical value of gn and gL are the conductances (or the reciprocals of resistances) of the ion channels. The "conductance" here physically represents how many ion channels out of total are open.

[edit on 27-8-2010 by Johnmike]



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 11:01 PM
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Originally posted by XPLodER
when a cell malfunctions (blown tansistor) its chemical potential is inconsistant with its neibours and causes an avalanch of voltage being forwarded to the suspect cell this extra chemical potential is then a battery/power source for the cell and cant self terminate
if this extra potetial effects the part of the cell that controls cell reproduction it becomes cancerous

it cant hear the demands of the other cells because of the electrical and chemical noise created by being over charged with potential energy
by inducing a pathway through the cell the energy is reset and the cell can then comunicate and follows the instructions from the other cells to self terminate


The communication on this scale is done through chemicals -- paracrine and juxtacrine signals. This includes the signal to self-apoptose or divide.



posted on Aug, 28 2010 @ 12:35 AM
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reply to post by soficrow
 


Soficrow…..


THANK YOU - very important piece of information: re-using is illegal.


The issue of not re-using single use medical items & therefore significantly risking patient cross infections & instrument & materials compatibility problems is a fundamental principle that protects patients, health workers & ultimately, the broader community.

It is illegal.


Are there NanoKnife Police in operating rooms? Kidding!


These non-reuse controls are enacted through the operational, QA & ethical policy & procedure systems of hospitals & clinics.


...And what do you mean, "not validated in the context of materials compatibility"? ...The operator gets a shock if they don't change-out the electrodes after use?


All medical instrumentation must be validated for use & processing compatibility. Processing will include such things as decontamination, sterilization, etc… This is an extremely complex area.


...Seriously, is the NanoKnife computer-tech that really does prevent re-use?


No…..it is the issue of validation as noted above.


Heard about it some time ago - hence my questions: is this / are other effective anti-prion agents commercially available and in common use ?


This is a new enzymatic technology. I’m thinking you may not have heard of this as yet.

Please let me know if you would me to answer these questions in more detail.

Kind regards
Maybe…maybe not


[edit on 28-8-2010 by Maybe...maybe not]



posted on Aug, 28 2010 @ 09:59 AM
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Originally posted by Maybe...maybe not
reply to post by soficrow
 


Soficrow…..


THANK YOU - very important piece of information: re-using is illegal.


The issue of not re-using single use medical items & therefore significantly risking patient cross infections & instrument & materials compatibility problems is a fundamental principle that protects patients, health workers & ultimately, the broader community.

It is illegal.


Are there NanoKnife Police in operating rooms? Kidding!


These non-reuse controls are enacted through the operational, QA & ethical policy & procedure systems of hospitals & clinics.


...And what do you mean, "not validated in the context of materials compatibility"? ...The operator gets a shock if they don't change-out the electrodes after use?


All medical instrumentation must be validated for use & processing compatibility. Processing will include such things as decontamination, sterilization, etc… This is an extremely complex area.


...Seriously, is the NanoKnife computer-tech that really does prevent re-use?


No…..it is the issue of validation as noted above.


Thanks for answering my questions.


Just to clarify - nothing physical prevents re-use, just the law - and if the end-user breaks the law, they're liable, NOT the manufacturer. ...So we have to trust our own doctors, and that the system will work.

RE: ENZYME to 'kill' prions



Heard about it some time ago - hence my questions: is this / are other effective anti-prion agents commercially available and in common use ?


This is a new enzymatic technology. I’m thinking you may not have heard of this as yet.


Might have. I've been tracking this stuff for years. The earliest info I have on an "anti-prion enzyme" dates from 2003 :



Originally posted by superdude
Being that the prion diseases have infiltrated basically everything, and there is no real way to kill them, This is bad.



There are ways to kill them - they're just not being used. There are also nano-filters to clean them out of wastewater and drinking water - also not being used. For example:



“…prions are notoriously difficult to break down… A new disinfectant, based on enzymes collected from a volcanic pool, is showing promise in destroying the mutated prion proteins…

“We don't know why prions are so highly stable, but they are extremely hard to destroy. Indeed, one standard method of decontamination – soaking in fomaldehyde – actually stabilises the prions.”

* “Volcanic pool enzyme kills prions” 29 July 03



...Is this the enzyme, do you think? Seven years in development sounds right. ...But is it commercially available yet?

IMHO - we're better off with instruments like the NanoKnife that aren't re-used and don't rely on sterilization.





[edit on 28-8-2010 by soficrow]



posted on Aug, 28 2010 @ 03:22 PM
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reply to post by Johnmike
 


ok so the signal to self terminate is chemical do these chemicals attack or signal the cell or do they block uptake of nutrients?

the electrical diagram you presented was along the same lines i was thinking of exception would be a third funtion of output to nerve (sensor) otherwise the 1950 diagram was very interesting

a beleive each cell would be capable of producing a very small electromagnetic effect simular to a chemical battery with a minute coil
the coil being the surface charge the chemicals the stored voltage in the cell as electrical potential is induced in the coil (cell wall) the chemical potential also increase untill the two values even out and discharge occours

this returns the cell back to its resting state untill another surface charge induces the coil cell wall to build another voltage
in this manner all cells are self powering using the chemical potential to store the ions till required

the cell wall coil induced voltage is a idea of a different method to achive the same result

is my idea interesting?

xploder





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