HAARP , Earthquakes?

Originally posted by UnknownAgenda26
Exact video i was looking for Bedlam...

Sigh.

"At the bottom of the chamber, Dr Agnew has constructed an ELF wave transmitter"

No, no he hasn't. It takes a HUGE antenna to radiate ELF. Remember the Clam Lake Navy ELF system? 28 miles of longwire, and it was so short in relation to the wave that they had to put in 6MW to get 8 watts out. You see, you need an antenna that is somewhat proportional to the wave you're trying to emit or receive, or your efficiency is for bupkis. An ELF wave is hundreds to thousands of MILES in length. You can't get out of the near field of the Navy's old ELF on the entire Earth, much less could you form an ELF radio wave in a five foot high column of water vapor. At best, you're doing nothing more than applying a slowly modulated electric or magnetic field, but it is not an ELF wave by any stretch of the imagination. Or, rather, it's only in the imagination of a HAARPist that it could be true.

"...a miniature version of HAARP"

No, no it's not. HAARP doesn't emit ELF. It's an HF rig.

"When Dr Agnew begins shooting simulated ELF waves into the cloud, the cloud begins to move up to the top of the chamber"

See the sparks? That's not an "ELF transmitter", it's a lab HV supply. What the guy is doing is putting a charge on the water droplets at the bottom, they're then repelled by the bottom electrode and move up to the top electrode, and some of them deposit there. Others are repelled by each other and hit the chamber walls, and drip down.

"...it is actually pushing these water molecules up, and that's exactly how HAARP works"

wrong again. EM doesn't, in general, "push" anything. Certainly not macro-scale objects like clouds. How often have you seen clouds being "pushed up" by your local AM station?

"What we've done is not only push the cloud off the HAARP antenna, but the cloud is almost completely gone"

A bevy of lies. First, he's not radiating ELF radio waves. Second, HAARP itself does not radiate ELF radio waves. Third, EM doesn't "push" water, fourth, that rig is designed to charge the fog inside and drop it out on the top plate and the walls.

"HAARP does exactly the same thing, it ionizes the particles and pushes them out into space"

Not at all. First off, radio waves do not carry a charge. Second, what is required to get an EM wave to ionize something? The energy per photon in the wave has to be higher than the first ionization energy in the material you're ionizing. Amplitude isn't in it. If the radio waves photon energy (and yes, it's got one, think of it as really red light), is below the threshold, NO AMOUNT of it will ionize the first molecule of water. ELF cannot ionize anything at all - it doesn't have enough energy. Even HF can't. Up in the microwaves, you can start ionizing gases directly. Another way to do it is to take free electrons and use a radio frequency field (or even DC) to bash them into neutral atoms to form a neutral plasma, like in a fluorescent light or a plasma etcher. This does not form a charged plasma - and again it won't "be pushed into space" by the source, because the RF isn't charged and neither is the plasma. You have to have some means of exerting a force on the water vapor to move it. In his case, he charged the vapor and moved it with an electric field and then lied to you about it. A radio wave can't do this. And HAARP isn't the sort of design that allows for doing the electron trick - you need very low pressures and generally a tuned cavity unless you just want to pound the crap out of it with emitted power, in which case you have to be in the near field. It gets technical to explain.

(continued)

"HAARP is one of several ELF wave transmitters located all over the globe"

Well, no. The video is confusing "ELF wave transmitters" with ionosphere heaters. Not at all the same. Navy used to have two ELF transmitters, but they're long since shut down. Where they're getting confused is that HAARP can be used to wobble the auroral electrojet to cause the electrojet to radiate a small amount of ELF. They were looking at that as a backup for the Navy's ELF rig in the event that the Navy's primary transmitter sites got taken out. But there were a lot of issues. You can only do that at certain seasons, and in certain solar weather conditions, and it's inefficient. It wasn't dependable as a backup. And then Navy decided to use VLF and something else for submarine communication, so they shut down the ELF transmitters and re-equipped the sub fleet. Story over.

Most ionospheric heaters in the world (all of them, I think, other than HAARP) aren't in the right place, or don't have the right design, or both, to be able to cause the electrojet to do this. So if you stretched REEEEALLL hard, you might be able to claim that HAARP can cause ELF to be produced, although not much of it and not when you wanted, but the others can't do it at all.

"...working in tandem, these transmitters could potentially alter the weather anywhere in the world"

They're not ELF transmitters, ELF doesn't alter weather. The statement is a lie.

"..heating the atmosphere could build up high pressure domes that could deflect or change the course of hurricanes"


Well, I guess it could, if you could DO it. Here we come back to energetics, which is where all these guys choke. They like to dance around with the could, maybe, might, what if. Well, here's you one. what does it take, in terms of energy input, to heat a cubic meter of air enough to form "high pressure", whatever they define that as? Now, how many cubic meters are in a "high pressure dome"? What does that come out to in terms of joules? Is the entire power generation capacity of the US up to doing that? Here's a hint...no.

"...is it a coincidence that since going on line, some experts (who?) have reported strange weather anomalies - including massive floods, hurricanes and earthquakes?"

Yes. Did floods, hurricanes and earthquakes predate HAARP? Why, yes, yes they did. Did you expect that to change? Is it a coincidence since I bought a pickup in 2000, that there have been floods, hurricanes and earthquakes? DID I GET GAS THE DAY HAITI WAS HIT??!! YES!! Coincidence? I think not!

"there are reports of possibly 20 ionospheric heaters in existence all over the world"

I've got a list around here somewhere. It's not a big secret. It's a moderately common research tool for probing the ionosphere and inner magnetosphere.

repeated zoomed all-caps statements overlaid on news reports for several minutes

Lame.

"...scientists have reported disturbances in the ionosphere. Could there be a connection to HAARP (bogus graphic showing loops coming off the array) or others like it?"

Don't you guys ever get tired of showing some ridiculous crap and then intoning "Could there be... might there be...what IF!@!" Electrical disturbances preceding earthquakes have been discussed for decades. Certainly way before HAARP was built. The standard theory revolves around piezoelectric charge build up in stressed rock. It's old, old stuff, and has been a given in seismology since the mid 60's. In this case, it's the usual reversed cause and effect scam. Earthquakes cause the disturbance, the disturbance doesn't cause the quake.



[edit on 8-3-2010 by Bedlam]

(continued)

"...during his research, Dr Agnew feels that his use of HAARP-like ELF waves triggered an earthquake"

BWA HA HA. He used ELF waves at 'much lower frequencies'? It doesn't get lower than ELF, unless you go to DC. I love how they show him with a HF yagi which he claims is emitting ELF. From his own resume, he was using ground penetrating radar. (he also appears to be a hollow earther?) In the 400MHz range. GPR in general uses HF to VHF, NOT ELF.

Again, no-one knowledgeable (and telling the truth) could possibly think they were using ELF for ground penetrating radar.

"...we were so amazed - we were in an area known to have frequent earthquakes, near a group of fault lines, and an earthquake occurs"

Well, DUH. This is called a coincidence, with a side helping of confirmation bias. I was in a 6.0 earthquake once - I got up to use the bathroom, and the second I started, THERE WAS A QUAKE! Coincidence? I think not! In all seriousness, this is nearly ridiculous. Do you think no-one else ever used GPR in that area? Did you try it again? Or hey, you were in an earthquake prone area where it's no big surprise, and you happened to get an earthquake when you switched on your little 100MHz rig, and oh boy - it HAS TO HAVE BEEN ME!, end of research. Oh, and another sequence of photos showing you and about a 400MHz Yagi, from the size of it.

"...in this case Dr Agnew is using a stereo speaker to produce the ELF waves needed"

OMFG. This is beyond. Just too much. Ok. Here is truth. Sound is not radio. Radio is not sound. An ELF sound wave is NOT an ELF radio wave. They are as related as parakeets and cheese. Look. Frequency is an attribute, not a tangible thing. It is the number of times something repeats per second. I am tapping my finger on the desk. That has a frequency. Since I'm not tapping thousands of times per second, it is technically an ELF finger tap. I have an ELF eye blinking frequency too. Because all the word frequency denotes is, how often I'm doing something. I have an ELF meal-eating frequency. A big subwoofer may emit ELF waves of air pressure and rarefaction which we call sound. An antenna dozens of miles long can be made to emit waves of electric and magnetic force at an ELF rate, although not very efficiently. None of these things are related. They are not co-equal in any way.

If nothing else convinced you that this guy is lying his arse off, this should.

"...some say it's linked to a strange phenomena in our skies" (chemtrail crap)

Oh, I don't doubt that at all. I say it's linked to the sad dearth of unicorns. Have you seen one lately? Proof!

It's real dramatic, lots of spooky sounding music and badly done but alarming graphics, and this Agnew guy who's lying his ass off and hoping you won't notice.

They do the usual what if? Could it be? Perhaps... junk, then proceed to do the usual we-don't-know-the-difference-between-sound-and-radio, which no-one past freshman physics could do by accident. And they call every transmitting device an ELF transmitter, including the quite-obviously high frequency rig he's using for GPR. And every ionospheric heater.

The guy's nuts, or doesn't understand what he's talking about, or lying. Since I'm quite sure he gets paid for it, I'm betting the last.

yea i pretty much believe that we are able to mess up a country either to send a message or as someone said earlier, to give us a reason to occupy certain places.

i also believe that countries like Haiti, Chile (Latina America's richest nation...not by accident), etc. sometimes get loans from the IMF or World Bank, which we primarily control, and when they cannot pay that loan back or won't adhere to our forced policies like poor education, birth control, etc., , we cause a civil war via FBI and/or CIA, a coup, a drug war, or we cause what seems to be a natural disaster. Sometimes it is merely to depopulate certain areas too. Easier that way.

I do believe that there are natural disasters of course and that Mother Nature just does what it does sometimes.

All natural disasters in suspicious areas are worth investigating to the fullest extent. Here's a blogpost with information on HAARP:

enirnabu.blogspot.com...

[edit on 01/19/2009 by enir nabu]

Did HAARP make you post this thread????

Find out @:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by NichirasuKenshin


All hail HAARP, HAARP is good, must support HAARP.... whoa, what happened there, whew for a second there I thought....Naww!! Can't be

Originally posted by Bedlam
Originally posted by UnknownAgenda26


Weather modification technology is in use today by the United States, Russia, China, and Cuba. The project involves the manipulation of the ionosphere and the alteration of the earth's magnetic fields. This technology has both localized and global capabilities. Evidence indicates that this technology also has the capability of manipulating human behavior and mood patterns.

Most weather mod is through cloud seeding. This guy's 'document' which you posted the front of, it's not particularly correct. It looks like the usual pseudo-science bs you see on Adachi's site.

I can see it now! Each country using weather modification technology, and them all conflicting, to end up with a chaotic weather pattern! LOL!

I just wanted your intakes guys , thanks i appreciate it a lot . The facts put the picture in place .

I just wanted your intakes guys , thanks i appreciate it a lot . The facts put the picture in place .

Originally posted by john124
reply to post by graaly

 

There have been numerous confirmations that HAARP is capable of causing earthquakes

And the evidence of HAARP causing large quakes??? Natural quakes occur often, so why even consider something else without any evidence.

When a building gets demolished it causes a small regional tremor, but only very tiny. Does that classify as an earthquake causing machine?



[edit on 8-3-2010 by john124]

It certainly would if there was a fault under it and it triggered one.
Not by definition but by applicaton.

haarp only works in the same way ham radio does simples

reply to post by Bedlam


Is this what you have been trying to say Bedlam?

HAARP - Alaska Conservation Foundation

When the full HAARP facility is constructed, it will include several sensing ... Deeply submerged submarines can receive secure messages through ELF radio ...

arcticcircle.uconn.edu/VirtualClassroom/HAARP/acf.

But that's just the publicly announced part of the program. HAARP also has a secret agenda: pursuing more exotic military goals, such as locating deeply buried weapons factories thousands of miles away and even altering the local weather above an enemy's territory.

A 1990 internal document obtained by POPULAR SCIENCE says the program's overall goal is to "control ionospheric processes in such a way as to greatly improve the performance of military command, control, and communications systems." It provides a description of the following applications:

Injecting high-frequency radio energy into the ionosphere to create huge, extremely low frequency (ELF) virtual antennas used for earth-penetrating tomography peering deep beneath the surface of the ground by collecting and analyzing reflected ELF waves beamed down from above.
Heating regions of the lower and upper ionosphere to form virtual "lertses" and "mirrors" that can reflect a broad range of radio frequencies far over the horizon to detect stealthy cruise missiles and aircraft.
Generating ELF radio waves in the ionosphere to communicate across large distances with deeply submerged submarines.
And, patent documents filed during an earlier research effort that evolved into the HAARP program outline further military applications of ionospheric-heating technology:
Creating a "full global shield" that would destroy ballistic missiles by overheating their electronic guidance systems as they fly through a powerful radio-energy field.
Distinguishing nuclear warheads from decoys by sensing their elemental composition.
Manipulating local weather.

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
reply to post by Bedlam

 

Is this what you have been trying to say Bedlam?

HAARP - Alaska Conservation Foundation

When the full HAARP facility is constructed, it will include several sensing ... Deeply submerged submarines can receive secure messages through ELF radio ...

Yep, that was done. ELF is now decommissioned as a sub comm link. They use VLF and 'something else' now, so that facet of HAARP research is over.

But that's just the publicly announced part of the program. HAARP also has a secret agenda: pursuing more exotic military goals, such as locating deeply buried weapons factories thousands of miles away and even altering the local weather above an enemy's territory.

Yeah, that's a slice from the ACF link. Well, ACF is less than accurate here. Look at the very first line: "A new research installation is beaming powerful radioactive energy into the upper atmosphere"

Pardon me? Radioactive energy? Geez, could you GET any more stupid?

A 1990 internal document obtained by POPULAR SCIENCE... provides a description of the following applications:

(1) Injecting high-frequency radio energy into the ionosphere to create huge, extremely low frequency (ELF) virtual antennas used for earth-penetrating tomography peering deep beneath the surface of the ground by collecting and analyzing reflected ELF waves beamed down from above.

That was played with, the issue being that it's way easier to do the same thing from an airplane towing an array. ELF is huge, it gives you crap resolution, even if it's not really 'ELF' but more 'LF'. Plus, the HAARP array has all those other issues with not being able to do it where and when you'd like due to Mother Nature not cooperating.


(2) Heating regions of the lower and upper ionosphere to form virtual "lertses" and "mirrors" that can reflect a broad range of radio frequencies far over the horizon to detect stealthy cruise missiles and aircraft.

Oh, yeah, baby. That's a real use. HAARP is, of course, more a test bed than an operational facility. This has 'graduated' to other facilities. There's one on the east coast that's designed to do this specifically for more advanced testing than you can do at Gakona.


(3)Generating ELF radio waves in the ionosphere to communicate across large distances with deeply submerged submarines.

Old, discontinued.


And, patent documents filed during an earlier research effort that evolved into the HAARP program outline further military applications of ionospheric-heating technology:
Creating a "full global shield" that would destroy ballistic missiles by overheating their electronic guidance systems as they fly through a powerful radio-energy field.
Distinguishing nuclear warheads from decoys by sensing their elemental composition.
Manipulating local weather.


Here's where your site gets into the "lie" part. Well, one of them, the site is about as accurate as PETA describing a barbecue. What they're talking about is Eastlund's original daydream/patent, which HAARP is not. Hell, the site even says that it isn't, if you sift through all the may..maybe...might...COULD IT BE??! frosting.

reply to post by Bedlam


You are aware that back in 1997 the sitting US Secretary of Defence said that---- Others are engaging in in electro magnetic weapons that can cause earthquakes ect. He was talking about US enemies.
That was a long time ago. Why wouldn't the US want the same weapons?

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
reply to post by Bedlam

 

You are aware that back in 1997 the sitting US Secretary of Defence said that---- Others are engaging in in electro magnetic weapons that can cause earthquakes ect. He was talking about US enemies.
That was a long time ago. Why wouldn't the US want the same weapons?

Why do you automatically assume it has something to do with HAARP? Other than Bearden and Begich say so. Neither of whom are - ahem - very firmly grounded, let's say.

There are LOTS of other projects in many other places. HAARP's right out in the open. You can tour the damn place. Same for PFRR and all the other EM woo places in Alaska.

If I were looking for a secret electromagnetic weapon, I might look for something a bit less open, less accessible, less well known, than a place you can basically take the kiddies to see.

If you reread the statement, which he shouldn't have made, he didn't exclude the US. Actually, I think it might have been more accurately worded if he'd said 'are attempting to develop' instead of 'engaging', but YMMV.

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
reply to post by Bedlam

 

You are aware that back in 1997 the sitting US Secretary of Defence said that---- Others are engaging in in electro magnetic weapons that can cause earthquakes ect. He was talking about US enemies.
That was a long time ago. Why wouldn't the US want the same weapons?

Why do you automatically assume it has something to do with HAARP? Other than Bearden and Begich say so. Neither of whom are - ahem - very firmly grounded, let's say.

There are LOTS of other projects in many other places. HAARP's right out in the open. You can tour the damn place. Same for PFRR and all the other EM woo places in Alaska.

If I were looking for a secret electromagnetic weapon, I might look for something a bit less open, less accessible, less well known, than a place you can basically take the kiddies to see.

If you reread the statement, which he shouldn't have made, he didn't exclude the US. Actually, I think it might have been more accurately worded if he'd said 'are attempting to develop' instead of 'engaging', but YMMV.

Very scary wouldn't you say?
You do know he was in charge of keeping the USA defended right up untill a couple months before 911. Dropped the ball there as well right.

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
Very scary wouldn't you say?
You do know he was in charge of keeping the USA defended right up untill a couple months before 911. Dropped the ball there as well right.

Scary in terms of "OMG, what did he say?" or "this guy's secdef"?

It could have been worse. There's some stuff it's better he didn't blurt, and we sure thought he was close to. But then, he might not have been up on it that year, it didn't "debut" until 2004.

Originally posted by Bedlam
Well, to be fair, no. HAARP isn't designed for such things, and really, the total power of the array isn't that high.

It's a beam-steered HF transmitter, not that much different from other megawatt class short wave stations, with the exception of the antenna array - instead of a long wire or a vertical, it's a phased array like you'd use on a radar.

There have always been earthquakes; with a little perusal of history you'll find that lots of them happened before technology really got underway. They're pretty much a normal, if undesirable, facet of geology.

haarp can send a frequency at a constant and it just happens to be 2.5h/z signiture guesswhat they were picked up several days befor and several day later then just stopped(recently watched on controversail tv ch 200 sky tv

reply to post by Bedlam


for your info it emits micro waves at any frequency 2.5 being an earthquakes its in alaska and they bounce it of the (ozone) for got the right word i have in my possetion some info on it