The Playground Bully

reply to post by gwydionblack


The only thing I have against you is the idea of violent revolution. When a person decides to commit open war against the country I love, I cannot condone, accept, or tolerate them.

Yes this country does have it's share of problems, but the simple fact that you are freely able to discuss those problems in the open gives a big hint that we are no where near the time that violent revolution is necessary.

When you are able to purchase a firearm, that tells me that violent revolution is not necessary.

When you are not forced to keep military personnel in your house, that tells me that violent revolution is not necessary.

When you still have legal protections against illegal searches and seizures and the avenues to litigate against violations of those rights, that tells me that violent revolution is not necessary.

When you still have a right to not incriminate yourself, that tells me that violent revolution is not necessary.

When you as a citizen are still afforded the right to trial by jury, that tells me that violent revolution is not necessary.

From reading your posts, you have made it quite clear to me that you have no other intention than to be an enemy of the United States, declaring open war against the people of this country.

In your OP you made the analogy that the US government is a bully, and that you have to punch that bully in the nose to get him off your back. While it's true that often times in school the only way to reason with a bully is to stand up to them, what you are proposing instead of giving the bully a bloody nose is to blow his head off. Sure it teaches the bully a lesson, but the bully is now dead, and how long before you become the bully?

reply to post by gwydionblack

Guess what ladies and gentlemen - YOU, WE, are all the little kid getting bullied. Johnny, that bully, is the government. Johnny's parent is the courts and the corrupt system that defends him. That playground - is the United States of America.

I'm sorry...but I have to ask this again. Exactly HOW am I being bullied by the government??? I just don't see it.

This is the fundamental disagreement that me and you have. I think the government is not perfect...but not oppressive. You think the government is oppressive. Perhaps you have never experienced true oppression, neither have I...but I have seen it...and I know I am not experience it right now.

Another disagreement I have with you is that you feel it is within your right to remove from office the offical that I may have voted in. Remove officials that have been democratically and constitutionally voted into office. To me that makes YOU an enemy of the constitution and our country. What gives you the right to demand the person I and others voted fro out of office?


And yet another disagreement I have with you is that you are proposing to take our country that is imperfect, but the best the world has to offer, and turn it into a war zone...and leave us with a big ol' question mark. There is simply no consensus among all of you calling for revolution to what the end goal would be. Sure...yours is to return to the original constitution (which I don't even agree with)...but to win any revolution you would be forced to join forces with those who have other goals. The enemy of my enemy is my friend...your ideology group simply would not have the manpower alone...so you would have to concede to join with your enemies enemy. So let's assume your revolution is succesful...and now there is another war to decide what to do now...every group that joined forces will feel it is their right to put in place their ideology. In short...I would view violent revolution as war on my country...just the same as if another country invaded.


There are our disagreements...I don't think the government is oppressive, I don't think you have the right to overturn democratically and constitutionally run elections. And I would consider a violent revolution as open war on my country, a country that is not perfect but is the best the world has to offer.


I have asked you many times to show me how the government is oppressive...what freedoms do I not have? What freedoms have been taken from me?

Show me what right you have to overtrun constituional elections.

Show me that a revolution wouldn't have to adopt a "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" policy to be effective and show me how that won't effect your end goal?

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


BAAAAHHH!!!

THIS TOPIC IS NOT ABOUT VIOLENT REVOLUTION!

This topic is about uniting and standing together, with the same outcome in mind!

Seriously, what is wrong with you people that would choose to change this subject to better suit your agendas?

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and pretend you weren't attacking violent revolution, because if that is what you want - there are plenty of other topics pertaining to that.

I am instead going to pretend that what you said was this:

"I don't see the government as oppressive and therefore I see no reason for us to stand up and unify for a common cause."

Grand. YOU aren't being oppressed. As for everyone else, screw them, right? As long as YOU are doing grand in your perfect little world, doing what you want, paying into your taxes diligently, making enough money to survive, and generally just enjoying life - well then, screw everyone else.

YOU might not feel like you are being oppressed, and you might be happy with the way things are but guess what, I think the general outlook of people speaks for itself right now. It doesn't take a genius to realize that the majority of America's population is in dire straits right now and sees the government as doing a TERRIBLE job to fix that. On top of that, regulations and restrictions prevent us from being able to fix it ourselves. The problem that you fail to see is because you live in a bubble, only caring about yourself and things that directly affect you.

I'll tell you where my rights were infringed. My rights were infringed when a mom and pop store were forced to close their doors and file bankruptcy, while Fannie and Freddie were given millions to stay alive.

My rights were infringed whenever I got a paycheck and saw that there was money taken out of it, and I didn't even give them permission to do so. I didn't even know where it was going. I didn't have any say in it whatsoever.

My rights were infringed when I look at these people who made horrible decisions in their lives, who chose to have 6 children by their eighteenth birthday so that they can live off of government paychecks. And instead of buying their children new shoes or food on the table, the instead take that money and appease themselves.

My rights were infringed when the government told me that they were ALLOWED to listen in on my calls, monitor my emails, wiretap me without my knowledge, and spy on me without my permission as if I was some kind of common criminal.

My rights are infringed when a government bodies tells me what I am allowed to build or not build on a piece of land I own.

My rights were infringed when I was informed that myself and others were able to be detained and held indefinitely without charge or trial.

My rights were infringed when, even though spoken our against the majority of citizens in the United States, foreign wars of empire were allowed to be committed.

My rights were infringed when even after public outcry to bailout legislation, the government ignored us and did it anyway.

My rights were infringed when, through regulation and restriction, has made true capitalism impossible, and made competition with corporations a pipe dream.

My rights are infringed every time the government tells us that someone will not be included on an election ballot, and we are forced instead to choose between two of their own hand picked delegates to represent us.

My rights were infringed when the government decided to label people who thought against them - "domestic terrorists" and began to label anyone who thought against their way of things an enemy of the state.

My rights are threatened when the current governing body tries to force or enroll me into something that I have no interest in, and have no want of them controlling that factor in my life. (health care)





The list can go on, and on, and on, AND ON! These things just didn't happen overnight. These things happened because people moves on and ignored it. These things happened because SOME people "weren't affected" and didn't give a damn. But the same people don't realize that this affects everyone. It might not affect you now but it could, and I prefer not to have an elephant suspended above my head with a nylon cord.

So if you feel that you, personally, have not had your rights infringed, or you weren't oppressed in anyway, then that is grand. But if you are going to ignore the oppression of others and pretend that everything is all fine and dandy, then why the hell are you even here, and why the hell should I even be concerned with your opinion?


Let's one thing clear and simple - this isn't about me and it never was. This is about humanity of Americans in general. I'd like to see a world where creativity, imagination, and true individuality are embraced, but in order for that to happen - freedom and liberty to do such must be attained first. If you are happy the way you are, then guess what - revolution isn't going to change that. The great thing about individual freedom is that YOU get to choose exactly how you live and what you do. No one else does. So if this life you have appeased you, if it makes you happy, then by all means when the revolution is over you can go back to living however you want.

However, to tell people that they don't have a right to live free and how they want to, simply because you are already doing that - it isn't going to fly with me. That is the type of thinking that I am against. Those are the type of people who will talk and complain until kingdom come, but will never actually accomplish anything because they are too afraid of losing their easy go lifestyle.

You are either in it for yourself, or you are in it for everybody. If you are so much more important, then stay out if it. We don't need you here.

reply to post by gwydionblack

I'll tell you where my rights were infringed. My rights were infringed when a mom and pop store were forced to close their doors and file bankruptcy, while Fannie and Freddie were given millions to stay alive.

Sucks don't it? But that did not infringe on your rights.

My rights were infringed whenever I got a paycheck and saw that there was money taken out of it, and I didn't even give them permission to do so. I didn't even know where it was going. I didn't have any say in it whatsoever.

Nope, didn't infringe on your rights there either, might want to check out the constitution, and all the amendments as well. That is why we have a representative government, we send people to represent us. They listen to a lot of people, and make a decision which might piss some people off, might make others happy.

My rights were infringed when I look at these people who made horrible decisions in their lives, who chose to have 6 children by their eighteenth birthday so that they can live off of government paychecks. And instead of buying their children new shoes or food on the table, the instead take that money and appease themselves.

That's just government waste, not infringing on your rights.

My rights were infringed when the government told me that they were ALLOWED to listen in on my calls, monitor my emails, wiretap me without my knowledge, and spy on me without my permission as if I was some kind of common criminal.

Get a lawyer and sue em. From some of your posts on this website, they could probably easily get a warrant to tap your phones, emails, and listen in on every single call you ever make.

My rights are infringed when a government bodies tells me what I am allowed to build or not build on a piece of land I own.

Yep, sucks when they go and do a silly thing like making sure that unibomber style shack you want to build will be safe enough to live in.

My rights were infringed when I was informed that myself and others were able to be detained and held indefinitely without charge or trial.

That bill hasn't passed yet Sherlock.

My rights were infringed when, even though spoken our against the majority of citizens in the United States, foreign wars of empire were allowed to be committed.

Uh huh?

My rights were infringed when even after public outcry to bailout legislation, the government ignored us and did it anyway.

Yep, no one liked that, kinda sucked, but many of those companies paid the money back.

My rights were infringed when, through regulation and restriction, has made true capitalism impossible, and made competition with corporations a pipe dream.

Lot's of people have a problem with corporatism, doesn't give you the right to start a civil war over it.

My rights are infringed every time the government tells us that someone will not be included on an election ballot, and we are forced instead to choose between two of their own hand picked delegates to represent us.

BS, if you ever voted, you might know that what you just said is a lie.

My rights were infringed when the government decided to label people who thought against them - "domestic terrorists" and began to label anyone who thought against their way of things an enemy of the state.

Well no, but when you are planning to start a civil war, kinda looks that way to normal rational people.

My rights are threatened when the current governing body tries to force or enroll me into something that I have no interest in, and have no want of them controlling that factor in my life. (health care)

Yep, lots of people don't like the idea of this health care bill. Some do though. I don't, but some do. Still, not infringing on your rights.

You might wanna read the US constitution, really study it. Because you don't really seem to have much of a grasp on what it actually says.

reply to post by Misoir


Contrary to popular belief, fascism and fascist States are not systems that want to pacify people into numb robots - they actively force their citizens to engage in culture and activism, based on their individual capability. Rome managed to build an unbelievably vast empire simply because it had such a strong consensus that made each Roman citizen feeling as if being a vital part of the Roman Empire as a whole. Without the people, Rome was nothing, as seen with the numerous revolts that occurred now and then when the people felt betrayed or treated unjust by the senators.

When consensus and spirit broke down, the senators realized that the only way to keep the power together was to oppress people at their own conditions. Similarly, our modern societies today lack any form of consensus or motivational force, outside producing and consuming products and services, hence why our leaders constantly have to repeat political slogans and dogmatic messages via TV, radio and newspapers. Bread and circuses replace consensus, and like all short term fixes, it lasts as long as convenient and then collapse completely. Without the external control, and without the opium of the masses in the form of entertainment and selfish pleasures, people will run amok and revolt against the corrupt leadership.

More than two thousand years later, and nothing has essentially changed. Most people still don't know nor care, about what is really going on behind the smokescreen of all good-sounding profit making in the name of freedom and democracy. Do we believe them? Not necessarily, but as the Romans knew, it doesn't ultimately matter. As long as people are able to feed and enjoy themselves, they request no more, no matter how corrupt the current system is. Partly they're afraid of what they'll find, partly they feel attached to a system that satisfies their basic urges.

reply to post by whatukno


I simply like to follow all THREE documents of the United States history, that is, The Declaration of Independence, The Articles of Confederation, and The Constitution.

I know your stance on the Declaration, seeing as how you have talked against its credibility but hey, that is your stance. Guess what, you either accept them all or none at all.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

All men are created equal, but only the ones that WE see fit our eligible for the benefits we offer. The point is, the government shouldn't be involved at all. Just the fact of government having anything at all to do with business and the regulation of such is unconstitutional and goes against everything this country stands for.

Government waste that I and everybody else disapproves of, IS INFRINGING UPON OUR RIGHTS, because it isn't government by the government- IT IS GOVERNMENT BY THE PEOPLE!

Will you stop grasping and your BS rhetoric simply to try to discredit me. You aren't trying to prove what I am saying wrong, you aren't trying to provide healthy argument, you just continuously insult what I say and my character.




reply to post by concernedcitizan


Very well said. People need to wake up and WANT to see beyond the smokescreen. They should realize that "basic needs" aren't all that we should strive for as individuals and we our capable, in our own rights, of accomplishing so much more.

reply to post by gwydionblack

BAAAAHHH!!!

THIS TOPIC IS NOT ABOUT VIOLENT REVOLUTION!

Really...because you sure do talk alot about violence in the OP.

So many people say that violence should be the "last resort"

How to we fight violence with non-violence? Tell me, how do we stop bullets with words?

For the proponents of peaceful change, I have to say - how long do we wait?

So many people will claim that I crave violence, that I am blood thirsty and that I am a lunatic for calling for open revolution.

I call for a revolution

I can understand how some people ask "WHY" should we put the government in our sights

So...it kind of sounds like you are still talking about a violent revolution.


Now lets look at your "oppression".

I'll tell you where my rights were infringed. My rights were infringed when a mom and pop store were forced to close their doors and file bankruptcy, while Fannie and Freddie were given millions to stay alive.

I fail to see this effecting your rights...or even the rights of the mom and pop store. Business close everyday...no rights infringed upon. Fannie and Freddie is different...unless you wanted to see EVERYTHING collapse...it was necessary. Still...no rights infringed. The American people voted for their representatives like the constitution says...and the reps made the call. It's how the system works.

My rights were infringed whenever I got a paycheck and saw that there was money taken out of it, and I didn't even give them permission to do so. I didn't even know where it was going. I didn't have any say in it whatsoever.

Wrong again...taxes are perfectly legal. You never did tell my your opinion of the Whiskey Rebellion where Washington marched the Army to collect taxes. He is one of your heroes right?

My rights were infringed when I look at these people who made horrible decisions in their lives, who chose to have 6 children by their eighteenth birthday so that they can live off of government paychecks. And instead of buying their children new shoes or food on the table, the instead take that money and appease themselves.

How does the actions of other infringe on YOUR rights? Explain that to me.

My rights were infringed when the government told me that they were ALLOWED to listen in on my calls, monitor my emails, wiretap me without my knowledge, and spy on me without my permission as if I was some kind of common criminal.

Again...what RIGHT has been infringed on? Freedom of speech? You can still stay whatever you want...no one is stopping you.

My rights are infringed when a government bodies tells me what I am allowed to build or not build on a piece of land I own.

Most of the time these are local zoning laws...nothing to do with the federal government. These are also voted on...and I agree with them. I would rather not have my neighbor build a steel mill in his backyard...or my neighbor open up a porn store out of his garage. Where in the constitution that you say is your guide does it give you this "right"???

My rights were infringed when I was informed that myself and others were able to be detained and held indefinitely without charge or trial.

Source?

My rights were infringed when, even though spoken our against the majority of citizens in the United States, foreign wars of empire were allowed to be committed.

If your representative or senator voted for a war that the majority of THAT district said no to...then vote him out. The constitution doesn't demand that representatives do exactly what their constituients want them to do. But again...the answer is to vote them out...not kill them.

My rights were infringed when even after public outcry to bailout legislation, the government ignored us and did it anyway.

The majority was not against it when it was voted on. And again...if you don't like how YOUR representative voted...vote him out. But your one voice can't control the whole nation. I am happy with how my rep voted...and I'll vote for them again.

My rights were infringed when, through regulation and restriction, has made true capitalism impossible, and made competition with corporations a pipe dream.

I am living proof that this isn't true. I compete with multi-billion dollar corporations every day. And I am doing just fine with it. Millions of others like me do the same thing everyday. This sounds more like personal frustration than an acutal problem.

My rights are infringed every time the government tells us that someone will not be included on an election ballot, and we are forced instead to choose between two of their own hand picked delegates to represent us.

The last election I voted in there were many third parties on the ballot. Maybe if you would go and vote you would know this. And you always have the option of a write in. But again...this is just that YOU don't think it is right how the majority of the American public vote. Sorry...tough rocks...declaring yourself a dictator and telling everyone you know a better way isn't a solution. And it isn't constitutional either.

My rights were infringed when the government decided to label people who thought against them - "domestic terrorists" and began to label anyone who thought against their way of things an enemy of the state

Does the constitution say that the government can not label people? I would label people who talk about open warfare on American soil dommestic terrorists...I see no problem with this.

My rights are threatened when the current governing body tries to force or enroll me into something that I have no interest in, and have no want of them controlling that factor in my life. (health care)

Then don't buy healthcare...but you have to pay the fine. Because when you DO need healthcare (and you will sometime in your life), and you show up without healthcare...then you have already paid something into the system and when they have to write off most of your expenses...it won't increase costs as much.


Continued...

reply to post by gwydionblack


So no, I still don't think you or anyone else in the United States is being oppressed by our government. It's not that I don't feel oppressed...I don't see anyone being oppressed...including you.

Nothing you listed is "oppressive" by any stretch of the word. At best it is a very minor inconveinence...but no where near oppresion.


And you completely ignored the other disagreements I have with you. You are still advocating the overturning of democratic elections. And you are advocating a path where the goal is one big question mark. Do you have any responses for these?


I have to close by commenting on your last statement.

You are either in it for yourself, or you are in it for everybody. If you are so much more important, then stay out if it. We don't need you here.

I just have to laugh at this statement. Your talk of freedom is funny to me when I remember that you also want to deport all illegal immigrants. So FREEDOM FOR ALL...unless you crossed this imaginary line...then screw you. And let's call a psycho who flies his plane into an IRS building a hero for rebeling against oppresive laws because he tried to cheat on his taxes and got caught. But lets deport the poor guy trying to feed his family, so he crosses an imaginary line to work hard labor for less than minimum wage. I think you have an issue with your moral priorities.

Your views on "freedom" and illegal immigration will always signal to me that you are not being truthful. It discredits your motives in my opinion...and I will never take you talk of "freedom" and "every one being equal" serious.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Perhaps you are right in the fact that those things specifically don't infringe upon my rights, but they are unconstitutional, and thus I take offense to that. If they are able to so openly defy their limitations of the Constitution, with no punishment or redress, then what is stopping them from doing the rest?

As I usually say, forgive me for not waiting until I'm imprisoned to take a stand.

And you completely ignored the other disagreements I have with you. You are still advocating the overturning of democratic elections. And you are advocating a path where the goal is one big question mark. Do you have any responses for these?

The overturning of democratic elections, in order to give a democratic election - is purely a moot point. Are you going to tell me that the current election system is so pristine in its nature, and working so well that it does not need to be changed?

You probably will, so don't bother answering that. For those of use who see the corruption and breaking within the current voting system, and believe me there are many - we know that the system needs a reboot and needs to be stripped of the regulations placed upon that ensure that no matter what happens, the leaders that Washington wants to get into office - always do.

I just have to laugh at this statement. Your talk of freedom is funny to me when I remember that you also want to deport all illegal immigrants

Yeah, I want to deport illegal immigrants... and then subsequently allow them to gain real citizenship. Have I not had this conversation already? Oh yes, I have. You just fail to acknowledge THAT point that I keep making. No one is denied citizenship as long as they take the steps to receive it. If they choose not to abide by the laws of our land, then why are they coming here in the first place?

And let's call a psycho who flies his plane into an IRS building a hero for rebeling against oppresive laws because he tried to cheat on his taxes and got caught.

But in the same instance, he also proved a fact that many already knew. The fact the the tax system is so perverse and corrupted. Not to mention the fact that it is unconstitutional in nature.

But lets deport the poor guy trying to feed his family, so he crosses an imaginary line to work hard labor for less than minimum wage.

Well, if he would be a citizen, with a valid identification and valid papers, he wouldn't have to work for below minimum wage. AND, companies wouldn't be allowed to get away with paying them below minimum wage.

Funny how something like that would work, no?

I think you have an issue with your moral priorities.

My moral priorities are just fine, they are just easy targets for people who would try to deceive others.

Your views on "freedom" and illegal immigration will always signal to me that you are not being truthful. It discredits your motives in my opinion...and I will never take you talk of "freedom" and "every one being equal" serious.

Well then there is nothing I can really do for you. If you can't trust my word what can you trust?

I believe in freedom for all men and women, no matter their birthplace, their race, their religion, or their beliefs. However, in the same respect, in a modern society, I also understand that borders of countries are things that need to be maintained and simply cannot be raised for no reason. Business, protection, and economic futures all have stake in a secured border philosophy, but that does not mean the freedoms are not opened to others.

I believe that all people should be able to exercise their beliefs without being told how to do it. For example:

Same sex marriage: It shouldn't be an issue of federal or even states rights. To be quite honest, marriage shouldn't even have any place in government. Marriage is a religious act and by unifying it within government context, you only discredit the separation of church and state.

The same can be said for abortion. It is a matter of moral and ethical consequence, not a matter of government intrusion.

There are many other "small" instances like this, but these are two major ones that people refuse to let go. They seem to believe that they should enforce their own personal beliefs onto everyone and this isn't the point of government.

When it comes to personal opinions on issues such as these, it should be in the discretion of EACH INDIVIDUAL not of a collective mass. By enforcing a belief upon a mass you become slave herders and you denounce freedom of thought. Thus, it is unconstitutional and an enemy of liberty.



A second point is the tax system which I am vehemently against. I said before, I am not so naive as to think that a government can be run entirely without taxes, however, I believe that the people should have more of a direct say to where their taxes are directed, thus to personally reflect their ideologies and beliefs. While this is still in its infant stages of my thoughts, I believe that by giving people a say as to where their money goes and how it is used, their will be less defiance towards taxes, and an overall improvement of attitudes towards government.


I am a firm believer in the 10th amendment and the fact that the powers not given to the federal government directly from within the Constitution, should be revoked and removed immediately. There are so many powers, legislation, and groups within the federal government that can be deemed unconstitutional that it isn't even funny. It is because of this mess that the political system has become a maze that is impossible to traverse, with hundreds of industries and alphabet organizations answering to and fro, back and forth across the board, and none of it even serves a legitimate Constitutional purpose.



I don't believe in regulation, I believe in the removal of regulation. I believe in free enterprise and true capitalism, but I also believe it is necessary to restrict businesses that would choose to take advantage of our laws and work from other countries.


By beliefs on the government could go on for pages, and I could go on for days. But you only need to look at the articles of our founding days to know where I get it from, I just choose to interpret it in a very conservative and literal way. I believe this is the only way to interpret them if you choose the path of liberty and freedom for every man.


There is NOTHING I can say that will convince you that I want true freedom - the only thing that can do that is yourself. You have to ask yourself "will I ever even give him a chance, or am I going to continue believing that he is simply wrong".

I see hope in the fact that you can actually see me for what I am, OutKast, because I think you are almost there. There are others who would choose to spout assumptions and slander me, however, you at least read what I am saying and comment upon that.

I only ask that you accept that, even though we might not share the exact same philosophies, I am not your enemy, nor do I ever plan to be. If you choose to accept my call for freedom, then even better, but let us at least start with baby steps.

-Gwyd

reply to post by gwydionblack


The thing is, there is no definition for freedom per se. There are two kinds of it, "from" and "to" and as you can see, grammar underlies understanding of concept in this case. You can be free from government poking its nose into your business for example, but you can just "be free" or even "be free from government". You can be free to take whomever you want to bed, but you can't just be "free to", unless you advocate freedom to do anything, which is anarchy, or freedom from everything, which is death. The real problem about freedom is the lack of understanding it does not exist in and by istelf.
When you get that out of the way people start showing their real colours ( i.e. childish behavior). Lack of direction has always prospered on the ground of vaguery.

Originally posted by gwydionblack
reply to post by rusethorcain

 

I figure what you are trying to say is that, perchance I was abused as a child and so I am predisposed to violence. Allow me to prove your science experiment wrong.

I grew up in a fairly poor family until I was 8 or so. We didn't have much but we were happy. Soon enough our family evolved to the middle class, and sooner rather than later, we evolved into the upper echelon of the middle class. I couldn't say that I was spoiled as a child, but my parents weren't ever the ones to give me something I desired. But I was different, I didn't was zounds of entertainment and toys, I instead chose education. Books and computer programs that taught which my parents were more than happy to buy for me.

They never abused me. In fact, I love my parents very much for my upbringing. I grew up to be top of my class in school, and graduated salutatorian in college. I have worked on my own since I was 15 and haven't accepted any handouts since. Even after I lost my job almost a year ago, I have yet to get handouts from my parents or the government because I am much happier being responsible for myself and not laying that burden on others.

I have had a good life to a standard. I am not saying that I am without problems but your little psychological evaluation is dead wrong. I'm just an average guy, living in a small town, with average family and average friends. However, I am an average guy with BIG thoughts and big dreams. I have ideals and I plan to see those through until the end.




____________________________________________________________


You are a little on the defensive side and a lot on the self absorbed side.

Wasn't considering you, your upbringing your past, your motivations (all too clear and too late to mend) but what YOU are telling other people.
I am thinking maybe people need to know the serious and far reaching consequences of this quick fix you are suggesting people get on board with.

Violence is wrong, self defeating and you should not be promoting it.

Do I think you were abused as a child? I hadn't really thought about you to tell the truth. What does that have to do with what you are selling here? You brought it up however and so I see it is a sore point. Sorry.
You say you were not abused but you did not say your parents never hit you. Hitting, humiliating, punishing at all though acceptable by society is subtle and life altering abuse.

I brought up Alice Millers work because you use the example of a schoolyard bully and she presents the best arguments for non violence I am aware of. One day everyone will know her name and her work.

You conversely seem to advocate the logic of "give em a taste of their own medicine" and "when someone picks on you, knock them out - then they'll steer clear of you next time"...all that rot. And I think what you advocate is dangerous and harmful.
I am arguing the premise you are starting with.

There is only one muscle that will effectively and for the long term solve your problems. That is between your ears.



[edit on 10-3-2010 by rusethorcain]

To whatukno
"When you still have legal protections against illegal searches and seizures and the avenues to litigate against violations of those rights, that tells me that violent revolution is not necessary."

lol. Are you kidding me? I have seen multiple threads on ATS and reports elsewhere about Gov. agents breaking and entering, raiding houses, etc etc, with no warrant or permission granted. Seems pretty illegal to me, but hey, at least we have legal protection to prevent it.


"If you are that suicidal, just pick up your gun, and go do whatever it is you think will justify your death. Just, please, don't ask people do die with you. That's insane."

I agree with what Gwydion says. The people who don't are either blind or they just obstinantly deny the truth.
People are going to die in a revolution.
The people fighting realize that.
In another thread I mentioned that, while there are rebels fighting the government, the civilians who aren't getting involved in the fight will be left alone. That means that, even if I die, there is a chance that I prevented my family, my friends, and the girl that I love from suffering the same fate.
I would die for that.

This occurred to me as a solution to the bullying of government.. some wise man, years ago said that:

Gold and Silver keep governments honest.

If you think the derivative mess and housing crash was a big deal, wait till you read this article on Monday Morning's Huffington Post

It's Ponzimonium in the Gold Market
Nathan Lewis
Fund manager, author of Gold: the Once and Future Money (2007)

LINK

Buy a gold coin or some silver today... Help keep america Honest.

(The Chinese government has been telling their citizens to buy gold and silver for last 3 months)



[edit on 5-4-2010 by seataka]

reply to post by zamo1993


Not like you can't sue right? Shesh oh Pete some are dense.

If they DO make an illegal entry, one, a lawyer will get that evidence thrown out if you are prosecuted, and also, you can sue.

Originally posted by gwydionblack

Day after day you get punched, and day after day you complain, yet nothing is done. So what do you do in the situation?

Well, you can continue complaining and arguing over what you can do - or you can take matters into your own hands. So one day, Johnny comes up to you ready for his daily punch, you stand up, ready for him, and when he takes a swing, you duck. You rear your fist back and you clock Johnny right in the mouth with a right hook that he will NEVER forget.

Yes, you will get in trouble for it, but guess what - Johnny isn't going to mess with you again. He realizes that you aren't that little kid he can just punch and laugh about it.


[edit on 8-3-2010 by gwydionblack]

Nice little "wet dream" you're having there. Too bad it's time to wake up and smell the reality.


The most likely outcome of your "Stand-up-to-the-bully-and-punch-him-in-the-mouth" scenario is that after a brief moment of suprise, ...





That bully is going to be just enraged enough to Wipe the Entire Playground With Your Sorry Butt!!!






Afterall, he's Already established that he is bigger, stronger and meaner than you. He wouldn't be picking on you in in the first place if he hadn't.

And since you didn't stand up to him when he first hit you, he already knows that you aren't stronger (or better connected) than he is, or he wouldn't have continued to harrass you, Right?



And by the way, what kind of "friends" are you "just enjoying the day" with that would, repeatedly sit/stand by while some bully beats you down on a regular basis?


Some friends!




If this is the best conceptual analogy you can come up with, I dread to ponder the intellectual agility those of your ilk would bring to any so-called "revolution".




Jefferson, Franklin, et al, are likely spinning in their graves at the mere suggestion.

[edit on 5-4-2010 by Bhadhidar]

reply to post by whatukno


That's part of the problem.
In the analogy, the teacher represents the corrupt judicial system within the corrupt government.
How can you sue the government? The judicial system will continue to defend the monster they have helped to create, no matter what you show them.

I agree with you though. There are a lot of dense people. People who won't even consider the ideas of others. Kind of like everyone who preaches about peaceful change, and throws out ideas that say anything otherwise.
If you have a peaceful solution, I would much rather it be put into action. Noone likes being wrong, but I would love nothing more than to be wrong when I say, as many others have, that the time for that has passed.