Yes of course it's normal to defend place like the panama canal
What I think is outragious is it doesn't stop there.
Is the State Department Running the USA? , page 2
privacy
reply posted on 8-3-2010 @ 03:45 PM by Peruvianmonk
reply to post by Sinter Klaas
If the State Department is running the show it is a big change from the Bushe years. The State Department under Colin Powell was sidelined in the run up to the invasion of Iraq as a result of their need and search for evidence of Iraq's WMD'S.
news.bbc.co.uk...
newsinfo.inquirer.net...
If the State Department is running the show it is a big change from the Bushe years. The State Department under Colin Powell was sidelined in the run up to the invasion of Iraq as a result of their need and search for evidence of Iraq's WMD'S.
news.bbc.co.uk...
Colin Powell , who served as secretary of state under Bush's first term, was sidelined in policy-making by both vice president Dick Cheney and defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld.
newsinfo.inquirer.net...
reply posted on 8-3-2010 @ 03:51 PM by MikeboydUS
Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
reply to post by MikeboydUS
Yes of course it's normal to defend place like the panama canal
What I think is outragious is it doesn't stop there.
Well, the US is like a giant machine. In order for that machine to keep going, certain resources have to be secured.
Like the Panama Canal we keep an eye on the Suez Canal and the Persian Gulf. Even as we depend less and less on Middle Eastern oil, we still need to secure the waterways. Dubai is quickly developing into a global hub and will have to be safeguarded. As oil prices rise, Dubai is going to transfom into a global primate city.
Any threats, actual or potential, will be dealt with. It is only a matter of time before the brigands and pirates in Somalia are eliminated.
Al Qaida and the Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan are collapsing. The Insurgency in Iraq has been crushed. This will free up forces to proactively and preemptively deal with any threats elsewhere.
Ultimately, this is about the machine. The system or order must be secured.
People will complain this is imperialism, but the the truth is the system will break down if it is not protected. This means the standard of living, our way of life, and the world as we know it will break down if we do not proactively and preemptively act in our best interests.
[edit on 8/3/10 by MikeboydUS]
reply posted on 8-3-2010 @ 07:03 PM by pthena
reply to post by Sinter Klaas
My Grandmother would have slapped me silly for being such a Pagan.
Come to mention it, her father emigrated from the Netherlands.
I think it was shortly after the US invasion of Iraq. War anywhere in the region between the Mediterranean and Euphrates River would seem to have some Biblical significance, so of course I was reading Daniel 11.
Not that there is any direct correlation, but I began to muse upon the fact that all Iraq's neighbors were compliant to Bush's wishes. No way the former king of Jordan would have gone along, he was Hussein's closest ally, even sharing a name. But the new American educated king bowed right down, as long as illegal oil pipeline was protected. The Suez canal, which by American mandate from 1956, was excluded from accommodating military vessels, illegally made an exception for US military ships, since Turkey wasn't going to allow attack from their territory. There is quite a long list of lawful treaties and even national constitutions violated in order to accommodate that invasion.
Anyway, I thought of how many world leaders had left the field, leaving the reigns of power to unworthy heirs. You can probably even list former, stable minded European leaders who are no longer active.
And to be honest... I really like your skipping intelligence theory.
When did you come up with it. Or is it some sort of grand mothers cure, solution, or wisdom.
Up until now these last part has always proven themselves to be true.
My Grandmother would have slapped me silly for being such a Pagan.
Come to mention it, her father emigrated from the Netherlands. I think it was shortly after the US invasion of Iraq. War anywhere in the region between the Mediterranean and Euphrates River would seem to have some Biblical significance, so of course I was reading Daniel 11.
DA 11:33 "Those who are wise will instruct many, though for a time they will fall by the sword or be burned or captured or plundered. 34 When they fall, they will receive a little help, and many who are not sincere will join them. 35 Some of the wise will stumble, so that they may be refined, purified and made spotless until the time of the end, for it will still come at the appointed time.
Not that there is any direct correlation, but I began to muse upon the fact that all Iraq's neighbors were compliant to Bush's wishes. No way the former king of Jordan would have gone along, he was Hussein's closest ally, even sharing a name. But the new American educated king bowed right down, as long as illegal oil pipeline was protected. The Suez canal, which by American mandate from 1956, was excluded from accommodating military vessels, illegally made an exception for US military ships, since Turkey wasn't going to allow attack from their territory. There is quite a long list of lawful treaties and even national constitutions violated in order to accommodate that invasion.
Anyway, I thought of how many world leaders had left the field, leaving the reigns of power to unworthy heirs. You can probably even list former, stable minded European leaders who are no longer active.
reply posted on 10-3-2010 @ 05:14 PM by Sinter Klaas
reply to post by MikeboydUS
Yes the system will break down. Your system, the US system.
Maybe you didn't realised it yet, but there are many clues and is many evidence around what suggests , your system is not a perfect system.
I even dare to say, your system has caused many wars and countless of deaths in places your system should not have even been in the first place.
My personal opinion is not full of respect for this system, even the opposite.
Well... it seems it is also the same system I live in and by.
I do not choose so.
This is not an attack on you or any other !
This system has always caused problems.America just happens to be the ones putting it to work this period in time.
Peace !
Yes the system will break down. Your system, the US system.
Maybe you didn't realised it yet, but there are many clues and is many evidence around what suggests , your system is not a perfect system.
I even dare to say, your system has caused many wars and countless of deaths in places your system should not have even been in the first place.
My personal opinion is not full of respect for this system, even the opposite.
Well... it seems it is also the same system I live in and by.
I do not choose so.
This is not an attack on you or any other !
This system has always caused problems.America just happens to be the ones putting it to work this period in time.
Peace !
reply posted on 10-3-2010 @ 05:26 PM by Sinter Klaas
reply to post by pthena
I get your point.
The part you quoted could also predict the fall of man, because they are greedy and sell out intelligence for all the crap they benefit from while cooperating.
This flow of indifference, violence and others are only recent developments. I'm not even 30 yet and society has had a complete makeover, from the time I can remember till now.
Who's to say this behaviour isn't inherent to our current way of live ?
And it's happened before, obviously. I is a prediction becoming truth.
This also means that this knowledge could be used to control. ( IMO )
I get your point.
The part you quoted could also predict the fall of man, because they are greedy and sell out intelligence for all the crap they benefit from while cooperating.
This flow of indifference, violence and others are only recent developments. I'm not even 30 yet and society has had a complete makeover, from the time I can remember till now.
Who's to say this behaviour isn't inherent to our current way of live ?
And it's happened before, obviously. I is a prediction becoming truth.
This also means that this knowledge could be used to control. ( IMO )
reply posted on 10-3-2010 @ 06:10 PM by pthena
reply to post by Sinter Klaas
There was a time when torture was obviously wrong, now it's a matter of opinion.
There was a time propaganda was called for what it was, now it's considered as news.
There was a time that diplomacy meant working out differences with people considered potential enemies, now it means gathering a group of allies to attack perceived enemies.
Much has changed very rapidly, the indifferent haven't even noticed.
This flow of indifference, violence and others are only recent developments. I'm not even 30 yet and society has had a complete makeover, from the time I can remember till now.
There was a time when torture was obviously wrong, now it's a matter of opinion.
There was a time propaganda was called for what it was, now it's considered as news.
There was a time that diplomacy meant working out differences with people considered potential enemies, now it means gathering a group of allies to attack perceived enemies.
Much has changed very rapidly, the indifferent haven't even noticed.
reply posted on 10-3-2010 @ 09:30 PM by MikeboydUS
reply to post by Sinter Klaas
We didn't build the system, were just running it currently.
Europe started it, Industrialized it and then passed the torch to us after World War 2.
Its not perfect, but its better than the religious nightmare the Vatican was running prior to it. Its better than feudalism and manoralism. Its definitely better than barbarism.
All systems are in danger of collapse at all times, which is why they have to be safeguarded.
If the system fails, the world is going to be dragged down into a new dark age. You don't want that do you? A reversal back to barbarism, feudal war lords and theocrats?
We didn't build the system, were just running it currently.
Europe started it, Industrialized it and then passed the torch to us after World War 2.
Its not perfect, but its better than the religious nightmare the Vatican was running prior to it. Its better than feudalism and manoralism. Its definitely better than barbarism.
All systems are in danger of collapse at all times, which is why they have to be safeguarded.
If the system fails, the world is going to be dragged down into a new dark age. You don't want that do you? A reversal back to barbarism, feudal war lords and theocrats?
reply posted on 11-3-2010 @ 12:31 PM by pthena
reply to post by MikeboydUS
You view protecting the system as that which will hold off the coming dark age. Calls to mind this book I read about 1969.
Of course the hero does what is necessary to hold off the Dark Ages he knows is coming. I don't remember off hand whether he succeeds or not. I avoided reading further in wikipedia just in case I feel like reading the book again.
The 'system' you mention as in danger of collapsing is in fact what Sinter identified as Free Market Economy. As long as the trade routes are open, there is a stability to civilization, in that the cities sit static and have goods and raw materials coming in. Without that inflow, the cities cannot exist.
What brought down the Roman empire and brought on the European Dark Ages was the collapse of the trade routes due to massive forced migrations from the East lasting from the 400s with Attila the Hun through the 1200s with Genghis Khan.
As you say, the US inherited the system from Europe. The system includes forced markets. Examples: The Opium wars, wherein China, which formerly banned Opium was forced to buy Opium from India, which was also forced to grow it. The British took the middle-man's share. The Dutch and the British were constantly in a state of trade war once the Spanish control of colonialism and theft of raw materials and precious metal had been broken by the US. Open market, meant forced open market, as per US Open Door Policy with China, meaning China would always be open as a market in order to buy western goods. Same with Japan, which was forced to modernize so as to be a consumer of western goods. It's an interesting piece of history, while the US was at war with Britain in the Atlantic during the Civil War due to Britain siding with the Confederates and breaking Union blockades, in the Pacific, US and Britain were allies in forcing Japan to open it's markets for Western goods.
As a last hurrah for what used to be the Open Market, immediately after Iraq's government fell under US invasion in 2003, Bush declared Iraq a Free Market Zone. Joe M. Allbaugh, FEMA director, February 2001 - March 2003, then left FEMA to Michael Brown, who's only qualification was that he had been Allbaugh's roommate in college, and set up an office in Washington DC which would control all building contracts and business licensing for Iraq. Kickbacks were the rule of the day. 'Give me 1 million dollars up front, and you will get the 20 million dollar contract.' I guess that's actually called 'pay to play.'
(to be continued) posting now so you know I'm still rolling on this thread.
[edit on 11-3-2010 by pthena]
We didn't build the system, were just running it currently.
Europe started it, Industrialized it and then passed the torch to us after World War 2.
Its not perfect, but its better than the religious nightmare the Vatican was running prior to it. Its better than feudalism and manoralism. Its definitely better than barbarism.
All systems are in danger of collapse at all times, which is why they have to be safeguarded.
If the system fails, the world is going to be dragged down into a new dark age. You don't want that do you? A reversal back to barbarism, feudal war lords and theocrats?
You view protecting the system as that which will hold off the coming dark age. Calls to mind this book I read about 1969.
en.wikipedia.org...
Lest Darkness Fall is an alternate history science fiction novel written in 1939 by author L. Sprague de Camp.
Lest Darkness Fall is written along lines similar to those of Mark Twain's A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court. American archaeologist Martin Padway is visiting the Pantheon in Rome in 1938. A thunderstorm arrives, lightning cracks, and he finds himself transported to 6th century Rome (AD 535).
Of course the hero does what is necessary to hold off the Dark Ages he knows is coming. I don't remember off hand whether he succeeds or not. I avoided reading further in wikipedia just in case I feel like reading the book again.
The 'system' you mention as in danger of collapsing is in fact what Sinter identified as Free Market Economy. As long as the trade routes are open, there is a stability to civilization, in that the cities sit static and have goods and raw materials coming in. Without that inflow, the cities cannot exist.
What brought down the Roman empire and brought on the European Dark Ages was the collapse of the trade routes due to massive forced migrations from the East lasting from the 400s with Attila the Hun through the 1200s with Genghis Khan.
As you say, the US inherited the system from Europe. The system includes forced markets. Examples: The Opium wars, wherein China, which formerly banned Opium was forced to buy Opium from India, which was also forced to grow it. The British took the middle-man's share. The Dutch and the British were constantly in a state of trade war once the Spanish control of colonialism and theft of raw materials and precious metal had been broken by the US. Open market, meant forced open market, as per US Open Door Policy with China, meaning China would always be open as a market in order to buy western goods. Same with Japan, which was forced to modernize so as to be a consumer of western goods. It's an interesting piece of history, while the US was at war with Britain in the Atlantic during the Civil War due to Britain siding with the Confederates and breaking Union blockades, in the Pacific, US and Britain were allies in forcing Japan to open it's markets for Western goods.
As a last hurrah for what used to be the Open Market, immediately after Iraq's government fell under US invasion in 2003, Bush declared Iraq a Free Market Zone. Joe M. Allbaugh, FEMA director, February 2001 - March 2003, then left FEMA to Michael Brown, who's only qualification was that he had been Allbaugh's roommate in college, and set up an office in Washington DC which would control all building contracts and business licensing for Iraq. Kickbacks were the rule of the day. 'Give me 1 million dollars up front, and you will get the 20 million dollar contract.' I guess that's actually called 'pay to play.'
(to be continued) posting now so you know I'm still rolling on this thread.
[edit on 11-3-2010 by pthena]
reply posted on 11-3-2010 @ 01:52 PM by pthena
reply to post by pthena
(Continuation)
To show how broken the system is, compare post WWII era with now. Post WWII, the US was a net producer. Factories building cars, refrigerators, stoves, washing machines, radios, televisions and exporting them to Europe and Asia. US steel industry was top in the world. Corporate CEOs were pulling in about 20 times the average wages of workers. Plenty of employment, good tax base. Even oil was an export until mid-sixties. No problem for a one income blue collar family to buy a house and car. The 'good old days' as long as you don't mention the lack of uniform civil rights.
Now, the US is a massive net consumer. Factories shut down. Durable goods imported from Asia. Steel mills shut down, steel industry practically non-existant. Oil importer. Energy Corporations massively government subsidized. Royalty payments to state and federal Governments based on old numbers, not adjusted to price-per-barrel. The only profitable business, Insurance and Finance(which gets bailed out at taxpayer expense). Lousy tax base. Corporate CEO compensation about 500 times average worker. Tax breaks for corporations. Unlimited control of Congress by corporate lobbies. All in all, pretty grim.
The big export of the US is war, and war making materiel. For the last 5 years, at any given moment there have been 2 2week joint military exercises going on somewhere in the world. Typically, US leaves weapons system behind when they leave. Recent three way border conflict in Western Sahara fought with these US supplied weapons on all sides. These are all US taxpayer expenses, in no way benefiting US taxpayers. Georgia's military built not once, but twice, at US taxpayer expense. Only arms manufacturers benefit. US will never support land-mine or cluster bomb bans, that's business. If the US economy were a bucket, that bucket has a gaping hole in the bottom, much more going out in than coming in.
Now, for the really grim part. The collapse of civilization. Remember, stability comes from the ability of people to live in one place, without needing to migrate, especially now that there really isn't any place left to migrate to. Water is the key. Cities are where water is, mostly rivers. What keeps rivers flowing year round? Snow pack on mountains. What is happening to snow pack? Disappearing due to global warming. This is the fact. Those who want complacent populations are the one's who deny global warming. "It's all a left-wing plot" is the propaganda. When the water goes the cities die.
Approximately 2 billion people live off the rivers that flow from Himalayan ice pack. What happens when the rivers stop flowing? Look at Darfur, genocide caused by draught due to climate change, desertafication. Take a place like LA Basin in California. About 5 times the population supportable by water supplies, gets most of its water from aqueducts from Northern California and Colorado River. What happens when the Northern California and Colorado rivers stop flowing? Mass exodus? to where?
As Sinter has proposed "this knowledge can be used to control." Just what is the plan? What have TPTB set up to deal with this crisis? All I can see is that the US has been totally militarizing the whole world. So what happens when the rivers dry up? The shooting begins in earnest. There's nowhere for any one to migrate to, so they just have to kill each other off. The US supplies the weapons.
This all isn't some deep dark secret. It's been known since 2000. Read CIA 15 year projection. It should be still available as pdf, unless it's been removed. The PTB count on people having very short attention spans. It's as if this whole "war on terror" is a great big distraction.
The US is very upset that European NATO members are spending less than 4% GDP on military.
[edit on 11-3-2010 by pthena]
(Continuation)
To show how broken the system is, compare post WWII era with now. Post WWII, the US was a net producer. Factories building cars, refrigerators, stoves, washing machines, radios, televisions and exporting them to Europe and Asia. US steel industry was top in the world. Corporate CEOs were pulling in about 20 times the average wages of workers. Plenty of employment, good tax base. Even oil was an export until mid-sixties. No problem for a one income blue collar family to buy a house and car. The 'good old days' as long as you don't mention the lack of uniform civil rights.
Now, the US is a massive net consumer. Factories shut down. Durable goods imported from Asia. Steel mills shut down, steel industry practically non-existant. Oil importer. Energy Corporations massively government subsidized. Royalty payments to state and federal Governments based on old numbers, not adjusted to price-per-barrel. The only profitable business, Insurance and Finance(which gets bailed out at taxpayer expense). Lousy tax base. Corporate CEO compensation about 500 times average worker. Tax breaks for corporations. Unlimited control of Congress by corporate lobbies. All in all, pretty grim.
The big export of the US is war, and war making materiel. For the last 5 years, at any given moment there have been 2 2week joint military exercises going on somewhere in the world. Typically, US leaves weapons system behind when they leave. Recent three way border conflict in Western Sahara fought with these US supplied weapons on all sides. These are all US taxpayer expenses, in no way benefiting US taxpayers. Georgia's military built not once, but twice, at US taxpayer expense. Only arms manufacturers benefit. US will never support land-mine or cluster bomb bans, that's business. If the US economy were a bucket, that bucket has a gaping hole in the bottom, much more going out in than coming in.
Now, for the really grim part. The collapse of civilization. Remember, stability comes from the ability of people to live in one place, without needing to migrate, especially now that there really isn't any place left to migrate to. Water is the key. Cities are where water is, mostly rivers. What keeps rivers flowing year round? Snow pack on mountains. What is happening to snow pack? Disappearing due to global warming. This is the fact. Those who want complacent populations are the one's who deny global warming. "It's all a left-wing plot" is the propaganda. When the water goes the cities die.
Approximately 2 billion people live off the rivers that flow from Himalayan ice pack. What happens when the rivers stop flowing? Look at Darfur, genocide caused by draught due to climate change, desertafication. Take a place like LA Basin in California. About 5 times the population supportable by water supplies, gets most of its water from aqueducts from Northern California and Colorado River. What happens when the Northern California and Colorado rivers stop flowing? Mass exodus? to where?
As Sinter has proposed "this knowledge can be used to control." Just what is the plan? What have TPTB set up to deal with this crisis? All I can see is that the US has been totally militarizing the whole world. So what happens when the rivers dry up? The shooting begins in earnest. There's nowhere for any one to migrate to, so they just have to kill each other off. The US supplies the weapons.
This all isn't some deep dark secret. It's been known since 2000. Read CIA 15 year projection. It should be still available as pdf, unless it's been removed. The PTB count on people having very short attention spans. It's as if this whole "war on terror" is a great big distraction.
The US is very upset that European NATO members are spending less than 4% GDP on military.
[edit on 11-3-2010 by pthena]
reply posted on 11-3-2010 @ 04:35 PM by Sinter Klaas
reply to post by pthena
Ah !
And I thought you didn't agree with my idea.
Just retrace the trail and/or follow the money. All throughout history there have been always just a few on top of the pyramid.
Ah !
And I thought you didn't agree with my idea.
Just retrace the trail and/or follow the money. All throughout history there have been always just a few on top of the pyramid.
reply posted on 11-3-2010 @ 04:50 PM by pthena
reply to post by Sinter Klaas
It just takes me a while to organize my thoughts into a coherent presentation. I thought MikeboydUS should at least know what the system is leading to. I still don't think there is sane thinking behind it though. There does seem to be unsustainable irrational greed though. I don't think greed will help these people in the end.
[edit on 11-3-2010 by pthena]
It just takes me a while to organize my thoughts into a coherent presentation. I thought MikeboydUS should at least know what the system is leading to. I still don't think there is sane thinking behind it though. There does seem to be unsustainable irrational greed though. I don't think greed will help these people in the end.
[edit on 11-3-2010 by pthena]
reply posted on 11-3-2010 @ 05:18 PM by Sinter Klaas
reply to post by pthena
Oh... Silly me.
Maybe I should have mentioned the powers that be are not always the same. They are where the big money is.
For existence of this big money to be. Greed has definitely a mind clouding effect.
I still believe this system is controlled by a few, with greed as their guide. Of course this system is man made but as greed clouded their visions they realise to late it can and will backfire right into their face.
It happended before and it will happen again.
Oh... Silly me.
Maybe I should have mentioned the powers that be are not always the same. They are where the big money is.
For existence of this big money to be. Greed has definitely a mind clouding effect.
I still believe this system is controlled by a few, with greed as their guide. Of course this system is man made but as greed clouded their visions they realise to late it can and will backfire right into their face.
It happended before and it will happen again.
reply posted on 11-3-2010 @ 07:51 PM by pthena
reply to post by RizeorDie
Funny you should mention Zionist Israel. What does Zionist Israel have that most every one else doesn't, besides dual US citizenship, that is?
Nuclear powered desalination plants!
Lets see, 2 Billion without water in China, India, Southeast Asia. Lots of people without water Turkey, Syria, Iraq when Euphrates dries up. The call goes out, "Let's go get water from desalination plants in Israel!" Then every body gets killed. End of story. Or is it?
no, its zionist israel that running the US of A
Funny you should mention Zionist Israel. What does Zionist Israel have that most every one else doesn't, besides dual US citizenship, that is?
Nuclear powered desalination plants!
REV 16:12 The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the East. 13 Then I saw three evil spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 They are spirits of demons performing miraculous signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty.
...
REV 16:16 Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.
Lets see, 2 Billion without water in China, India, Southeast Asia. Lots of people without water Turkey, Syria, Iraq when Euphrates dries up. The call goes out, "Let's go get water from desalination plants in Israel!" Then every body gets killed. End of story. Or is it?
reply posted on 12-3-2010 @ 08:24 AM by RizeorDie
reply to post by pthena
so what the fight for the holy land will be over water? possibly but the world is changing really fast, who knows what the war will be over...
so what the fight for the holy land will be over water? possibly but the world is changing really fast, who knows what the war will be over...
reply posted on 12-3-2010 @ 12:20 PM by pthena
reply to post by RizeorDie
The water war has been going on since 1967.
This article is pretty good at explaining the water issue that has been ongoing. A Google search on west bank aquifer should give much more sources. I spent many years living in desert areas. I've seen first hand how in the middle of a huge unused area of land, the few spots with water are fenced in. I read a doctoral thesis written at a college close by which dealt with how it happened. The conclusion was that ruthless unscrupulous people with sleazy but powerful connections are the ones who get the water.
Water is more precious than gold.
Notice who are the invaders. Who the grabbers of water!
It has been said that certain people were getting some land back according to some prophecy, that God would bring them back. Is it possible some people were fooled into thinking God was bringing them in when really they just took it upon themselves? Is it possible for people to confuse what seems to be miraculous with the work of God?
[edit on 12-3-2010 by pthena]
so what the fight for the holy land will be over water? possibly but the world is changing really fast, who knows what the war will be over...
The water war has been going on since 1967.
www.globalpolicy.org...
The Arab-Israeli dispute is a conflict about land - and maybe just as crucially the water which flows through that land. The Six-Day War in 1967 arguably had its origins in a water dispute - moves to divert the River Jordan, Israel's main source of drinking water. Years of skirmishes and sabre rattling culminated in all-out war, with Israel quadrupling the territory it controlled and gaining complete control of double the resources of fresh water. A country needs water to survive and develop.
In Israel's history, it has needed water to make feasible the influx of huge numbers of Jewish immigrants. Therefore, on the margins of one of the most arid environments on earth, the available water system had to support not just the indigenous population, mainly Palestinian peasant farmers, but also hundreds of thousands of immigrants. In addition to their sheer numbers, citizens of the new state were intent on conducting water-intensive commercial agricultural such as growing bananas and citrus fruits.
. . .
In the 21st Century Israel has tried to solve the Palestinian problem unilaterally, pulling troops and settlers from Gaza and building a barrier around West Bank areas with the largest concentration of Palestinians. Although Israel says this is a temporary security measure, the barrier encroaches deep onto occupied territory - especially areas of high water yield.
This article is pretty good at explaining the water issue that has been ongoing. A Google search on west bank aquifer should give much more sources. I spent many years living in desert areas. I've seen first hand how in the middle of a huge unused area of land, the few spots with water are fenced in. I read a doctoral thesis written at a college close by which dealt with how it happened. The conclusion was that ruthless unscrupulous people with sleazy but powerful connections are the ones who get the water.
Water is more precious than gold.
Notice who are the invaders. Who the grabbers of water!
It has been said that certain people were getting some land back according to some prophecy, that God would bring them back. Is it possible some people were fooled into thinking God was bringing them in when really they just took it upon themselves? Is it possible for people to confuse what seems to be miraculous with the work of God?
[edit on 12-3-2010 by pthena]
reply posted on 13-3-2010 @ 12:24 AM by Sinter Klaas
reply to post by MikeboydUS
You do know 'the dark ages' were only experienced as negative or bad period in time by Europe don't you.
The eastern Roman empire kept being successful and renamed Byzantine.
The capitol was named Constantinople. ( modern day Istanbul ).
I also read some threads and seen some videos about the US still is a colony under rule of the British Crown. ( Private organisation set up in a city state in the middle of London, called 'The city of London' . The financial center of the world.) The city of London is linked to a trinity of power and 1 of 3 city states involved. The Vatican ( for religious influence.) The City of London ( Financial influence. ) Washington D.C. (Military power) They are all three of them separate from their regional location and do not answer to it. They have their own laws, etc.
You do know 'the dark ages' were only experienced as negative or bad period in time by Europe don't you.
The eastern Roman empire kept being successful and renamed Byzantine.
The capitol was named Constantinople. ( modern day Istanbul ).
I also read some threads and seen some videos about the US still is a colony under rule of the British Crown. ( Private organisation set up in a city state in the middle of London, called 'The city of London' . The financial center of the world.) The city of London is linked to a trinity of power and 1 of 3 city states involved. The Vatican ( for religious influence.) The City of London ( Financial influence. ) Washington D.C. (Military power) They are all three of them separate from their regional location and do not answer to it. They have their own laws, etc.
reply posted on 13-3-2010 @ 09:25 AM by MikeboydUS
reply to post by Sinter Klaas
Constantine had the capitol moved prior to the fall of Rome.
The Eastern Roman empire was not that successful. Justinian tried to reconquer the West. He was able to keep the invading Avars, Slavs and the Persians out of the Empire though.
The Empire was then hit by massive plagues that significantly hurt the Empire. They began to lose the reconquered lands in the West.
Armies of Muslims began to emerge from Arabia and in 634 and 636, the Eastern Roman armies were decisively defeated in the Levant and Mesopotamia by Muslim forces. Muslim forces continued on into Anatolia and laid seige to Constantinople. The seige failed, but massive uprisings by Slavs and Bulgars followed, leading to a Bulgarian state.
In 826, Crete was lost to Muslim forces. Sicily's loss was complete by 902. Then the Vikings decided to show up and attack the Empire. They were defeated and the Empire once again began to try to liberate territory.
Fighting with Bulgars and Vikings continued. The Bulgars were finally defeated. In the 11th century the Turks showed up on their doorstep.
By the end of the 11th century, they had lost most of their possessions and were isolated primarily to Greece. In 1095, the Western Roman church responded to Muslim invasions and occupation of the Eastern Empire with the Crusades.
The Empire somewhat recovered during the Crusades, but then the Western Crusaders invaded the Empire during the Fourth Crusade. They never recovered from that and fell into civil wars. The Turks continued their conquest of Imperial lands and by 1400 all that was left was Constantinople . In 1453 that too fell and with it the Roman Empire died.
My point with the history lesson, is that the Eastern Empire was under seige and at war the whole time. There was no peace and they never recovered. By the time Europe was reborn in the Renaissance, the Empire had fallen. In this time the new order, the current global order, was born.
As for us being a British dominion, from the British empire's view after the 1776 revolution, they considered us rogue colonies. Even in 1789, when the United States officially formed, the British empire still treated the US as a rogue colony.
It was not until the War of 1812, that the British formally recognized the independence of the United States. Many historians consider this the "Second War of Independence".
Constantine had the capitol moved prior to the fall of Rome.
The Eastern Roman empire was not that successful. Justinian tried to reconquer the West. He was able to keep the invading Avars, Slavs and the Persians out of the Empire though.
The Empire was then hit by massive plagues that significantly hurt the Empire. They began to lose the reconquered lands in the West.
Armies of Muslims began to emerge from Arabia and in 634 and 636, the Eastern Roman armies were decisively defeated in the Levant and Mesopotamia by Muslim forces. Muslim forces continued on into Anatolia and laid seige to Constantinople. The seige failed, but massive uprisings by Slavs and Bulgars followed, leading to a Bulgarian state.
In 826, Crete was lost to Muslim forces. Sicily's loss was complete by 902. Then the Vikings decided to show up and attack the Empire. They were defeated and the Empire once again began to try to liberate territory.
Fighting with Bulgars and Vikings continued. The Bulgars were finally defeated. In the 11th century the Turks showed up on their doorstep.
By the end of the 11th century, they had lost most of their possessions and were isolated primarily to Greece. In 1095, the Western Roman church responded to Muslim invasions and occupation of the Eastern Empire with the Crusades.
The Empire somewhat recovered during the Crusades, but then the Western Crusaders invaded the Empire during the Fourth Crusade. They never recovered from that and fell into civil wars. The Turks continued their conquest of Imperial lands and by 1400 all that was left was Constantinople . In 1453 that too fell and with it the Roman Empire died.
My point with the history lesson, is that the Eastern Empire was under seige and at war the whole time. There was no peace and they never recovered. By the time Europe was reborn in the Renaissance, the Empire had fallen. In this time the new order, the current global order, was born.
As for us being a British dominion, from the British empire's view after the 1776 revolution, they considered us rogue colonies. Even in 1789, when the United States officially formed, the British empire still treated the US as a rogue colony.
It was not until the War of 1812, that the British formally recognized the independence of the United States. Many historians consider this the "Second War of Independence".
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