Mountain Lions in upstate New York and Coywolves

reply to post by Wolfenz

as for Cougars... story's been told by local farmers that their livestock Cows Pigs and Their Horses Have Claw Marks on their Hinds ends

That has me worried, I've read that their encounters with livestock lead to them being branded a nuisance and was one of the reasons they were wiped out in the east. Lets hope this time it goes differently.

I know this might be a dead thread but I'll chime in with my two cents. I grew up in the Catskills, I was stalked by a mountain lion numerous times on my way back home at night from my uncles, he lived above us. We had all seen large cat prints while out hunting fishing or foraging. The best identified sighting i saw was a large cat with a long tail trying to take down a Holstein. It was unsuccessful in its attempts and eventually ran off. As for wolves yeah there are wolves. Seen 2 separate packs over the years.

I found this thread off of Google doing some of my own research and joined to post this. I live in Eastern Ontario maybe 30 mins north of Massena and we certainly have coyotes here. Any night you can hear them howling. Occasionally there is a cougar sighting and that is what I've been trying to research. There is a cougar sighting every few years around Ottawa, ontario but so far no photos.

Gatineau park which is just north of Ottawa and maybe an hour from the US border does have wolves-coyote hybrids which have been interbred over the years and are far bigger than regular coyotes. A newspaper article from last year mentioned there was a male over 70lbs. (ottawacitizen.com...)

So if the hybrids are in Quebec and Ontario, they probably don't stick to international borders and stay in Canada, it wouldn't be all that odd to find them in upper NY. I don't know how they would cross the st. Lawrence however, but i suppose there are enough islands, foot bridges, etc. That they could perhaps cross without issue.

a reply to: EasternO

Thank you so much for your post and welcome to ATS! I'm from the Northeast USA and essentially what's happened is that eastern/eastern timber wolves and grey wolves were extirpated from the area between the 17th-19th century, although they persisted up in Canada. However, the coyotes that remained around here had some genetic mixing with the wolves before they were completely gone in the early 19th century. So those "coywolves" in the US are a lineage at least a couple hundred years old (i.e. wolf-mixing hasn't happened more recently).

The question of how many coyotes have what % of wolf DNA has been debated. Up where you are, where you actually have wolves, it's possible there are coyotes with a much higher % of wolf than in most of the Northeastern US. It is possible some of those higher % mixes have moved down into the New York area, but it would just take the DNA testing to confirm.

In regard to your Ottawa cougar post, I'm not really sure...

IUCN map shows a few spotty sightings into Saskatchewan, and that's trusted knowledge, so given their ranges it wouldn't be totally crazy. maps.iucnredlist.org...

Check out this iNaturalist observation: www.inaturalist.org...

Also I ran a search on GBIF and there was one specimen from Ontario from 1908 and nothing more recent. But I don't think it's crazy, especially given that inaturalist report.

originally posted by: Piggy315
I know this might be a dead thread but I'll chime in with my two cents. I grew up in the Catskills, I was stalked by a mountain lion numerous times on my way back home at night from my uncles, he lived above us. We had all seen large cat prints while out hunting fishing or foraging. The best identified sighting i saw was a large cat with a long tail trying to take down a Holstein. It was unsuccessful in its attempts and eventually ran off. As for wolves yeah there are wolves. Seen 2 separate packs over the years.

Sorry for the late reply ..

Yes well from Mountain Lions

Apparently ... The North Country environmentalist think they are coming from Canada ..
which makes more sense .. seeing we are right at the Boarder of Canada ..

Yeah there is plenty of Holsteins and jerseys here in the North Country as most of the land is Dairy Farms ..
seem the big cats like Horses more .. here..

Coywolves are more common here now.. and they are directly from Canada Ontario..
Mostly from Their Wild Life Parks ...

well thanks for posting your experience..

well here ya go :

interesting from the
Catskill Mountaineer Site

Cougar (Mountain Lion)
www.catskillmountaineer.com...

The most accurate version of the story goes like this: In or about 2001 appoximately eleven mountain lions were released in Rensselearville, NY (southwest Albany County) by the DEC. In 2007 or 2008 more mountain lions and grey wolves were released in Columbia County by the DEC. The DEC denies that this happen, and has posted numerous statements on their website that they never did this. At the turn of the century, there were a number of eastern states that considered a repopulation of Cougers. When public forums were performed they were met with very aggressive opposition from the community. This killed all of the plans to reintroduce Mountain Lions into eastern states. Some believe that the NYS DEC then decided to secretly release them without public knowledge. The DEC aggressively denys that this happen.

Well... as i said, they are coming from Canada is what they what they think Now !
but the DEC still has it as they may of come from Dakota ..


but could it be a overgrown BOBcat ..?

Well I know of Bob cats they are around Here..


welll
DEC New York
www.dec.ny.gov...

False Rumor: DEC Releasing Cougars to Control Deer Rumors have been circulating for the past few years that the DEC has released cougars to control deer populations. Some of these rumors claim that Officer 'Jones' participated in the release, or that people have actually seen cougars with ear tags or neck collars, so they must have been released by the state. This is not true. The DEC has never released cougars, despite what you may hear to the contrary.

and!!

from the Upstate NY .com
Study: Bringing cougars back to NY to kill deer could save lives
www.newyorkupstate.com...

originally posted by: EasternO
I found this thread off of Google doing some of my own research and joined to post this. I live in Eastern Ontario maybe 30 mins north of Massena and we certainly have coyotes here. Any night you can hear them howling. Occasionally there is a cougar sighting and that is what I've been trying to research. There is a cougar sighting every few years around Ottawa, ontario but so far no photos.

Gatineau park which is just north of Ottawa and maybe an hour from the US border does have wolves-coyote hybrids which have been interbred over the years and are far bigger than regular coyotes. A newspaper article from last year mentioned there was a male over 70lbs. (ottawacitizen.com...)

So if the hybrids are in Quebec and Ontario, they probably don't stick to international borders and stay in Canada, it wouldn't be all that odd to find them in upper NY. I don't know how they would cross the st. Lawrence however, but i suppose there are enough islands, foot bridges, etc. That they could perhaps cross without issue.

Thanks from the In site ...

u live by 30 mins ? well I guess you know what im been saying all along ,

Right they had interbred at the park there is a Documentary about it ..
there also been articles in the Magazine called Conservationist about the Coywolves ..

Well of Course I know How they go Across the St Lawrence..

Same way as the Moose ... and they Also Cross the Ice During the Winter ...

but here is a Tidbit that I know !!

There were Pure Gray Wolves ( Timber ) In Akwesasne / St Regis Mohawk Reservations

My Ex Father in law ... Best Friend Had a Few in Captivity ..
that he Raised ..for a project a Program His Female German Shepard got Acquainted with one of the Males
and My Ex Father In law got two Jet Black Pups and He Gave one to me a Female .. She was a Hybrid for sure
She looked more Wolf then Shepard .. I gave her to a Friend when the Wife and I separated..
He made the Mistake of Bringing her to the vet ... they Discovered.. She was a Hybird Because of her Wolf Appearance... the Mouth the Teeth of a Wolf, the Teeth slanted slightly Back .. as for Tearing into flesh
and the Bone Structure ... like a wolf .. she was labeled as a Hybrid .. and he Had to go through a lot of red tape and Courts .. just to keep her in his County

well that how I know there captivity ( PURE ) Wolves in Akwasasne ..
of Course I know there always Been Hybrids on the Rez ..
but Apparently These Pure Wolves ( originally from Canada ) were Suppose to Go into the Adirondacks ..
and to be Released ... but the Restoration Program was Canceled but the DEC will Deny it ..

Here is a Wolf Hybrid with a large Percentage of Wolf
that was wondering around the Akwasasne Reservation ... a few years back
Assuming it was ... as it was Friendly to Humans ...
you can tell its a Hybrid by the Dew claw it has ! Pure Wolves do not have Dew Claws