how can the truth movement be taking a beating when the crowd on the other side of the table still use circular reasoning with out understanding the context within their own reasoning ,

truth movement sais it was an inside job

"others" say its not an inside job but terrorists,.....

how can one say its not an inside job when pretty much all "terrorists" are intelegence assets and trained by your tax money...

Hi everybody,

It's new investigation time, aren't we all willing to have one? All sides could agree, let's have an independent body of some type and find out what happened, who can't see the logic in that?

Power and Equality

We are ALL on the same side here, everyone needs to truthfully look from the others' point of view

You're obviously entitled to your opinion but I see the situation differently. I think the truthers are the ones who "take a beating" not the trusters.

Beating? 'Trusters' are easy to spot and while I don't put anybody on ignore, I can generally tell by the first few lines in any post whether or not to waist time reading it. That goes for 'truthers' too.

I like what TrueTruth writes about 'evidence'. There's not enough to make a airtight case either way.

And what happens if said 'evidence' is found? Either side will claim fraud on the other and that's just what the 'masterminds' want.

Open your mind and eyes, be ready to change your mind, and ask questions.

Oh and one more thing, how can any new investigation find answers when the evidence has been destroyed or compromised?

People can be passionate about what they believe and when what they believe doesn't happen to be the truth, they are debunkers, unfortunately. They are just ignorant to the truth and need to look up a little more information or they are with the agenda behind the 9/11 attacks.

I think part of the reason that people cling to the OS is that the implications of what our own government did to us that day are so staggering it frightens people to their very core.
If the truth were known and accepted it may as well be the end of the world for some people. Most folks and the MSM have their fingers in their ears crying LA LA LA LA I AM NOT LISTENING and inside they have just enough doubt to scare them shirt-less.

Originally posted by belial259
I haven't believed the OS for years now and nothing could convince me to.

I never believed the OS. Several things immediately seemed incredible to me: (1) the way the towers and building 7 came down like classic controlled demolitions, (2) how nearly everything within the buildings except the steel was converted to clouds of dust which spread throughout the city, (3) how quickly the Bush administration named the designated perpertrators before any investigation got under way, and (4) Bush's televised warnings that "if you ain't with us, you're with the terrorists" and his statement that we should not entertain outrageous consipracy theories, in other words, don't you dare question what we say happened!

[edit on 3/7/2010 by dubiousone]

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Shadow Herder
These debunkers or blind believers have gone to new lows in name calling, flaming, trolling, insulting, derailing and attempting to ruin the ATS experience but all became a failure on their part as most people identified with their tactics, lack of maturity and rationale. Debunking = Epic Fail.

By the tone of your post you'd think it wasn't "epic fail" but "epic win". More and more on this site I see new threads warning others to "watch out for these guys" simply because they've encountered people who think differently than they do. If you're not up to all that comes from public forums it may be in your best interest to remain off of them.

Wow, I actually have to agree with you traditionaldrummer, except for where there is such transparency as to reveal trolling. The OP is describing attempts to derail threads on purpose and stifle productive discussion. That should be a part of public forums too, don't you agree?

[edit on 7-3-2010 by SmokeandShadow]

Originally posted by TheLoony


To hell with them and their fear. I read 1984 twenty-five years or so ago, and was afraid when I finished it. Now that it's come to be, the doublespeak, the thoughtcrime, all of it, I'm not afraid anymore.

i could never agree more that book scared the # out of me and the fact that more and more everyday that is what our government is coming to be! I think what most of us on ATS are looking for is an independent investigation with excess to all of the information available!

Originally posted by SmokeandShadow

Wow, I actually have to agree with you traditionaldrummer, except for where there is such transparency as to reveal trolling. The OP is describing attempts to derail threads on purpose and stifle productive discussion. That should be a part of public forums too, don't you agree?

Sure. I suppose. Trolling happens in all public forums and can be dealt with in the thread at hand. But to respond to such trolling with a new thread warning to "watch out for these guys" with a title like this thread (which IS trolling) is rather petty and immature.

What is the point of this thread? Point fingers and neener at each other?

As far as the truth versus fable goes for 9/11, you need to ask yourself this. For those who did not believe the reported sequence of events, why do their own versions of the "truth" vary so much? You expect folks to blindly accept that our government murdered innocent Americans, based on these vastly difference opinions of what occurred?

Let's take the Pentagon. I've seen argued (and profusely in each case, mind), that many different things happened instead of the original story. I have people who can tell me they know without a doubt a missile is what hit the building. I have others that will explain to me that there was no plane at all, but a simple explosion that was set off. Others will say it was a different plane. Others still that there was a "flyover", as the took the jet somewhere else to off the passengers, and they set off an explosion. No bodies, planted bodies, planted plane parts, parts from a different jet. And on, and on....

Now, you seriously want me to believe there was another scenario, when no one can agree what it even was? You are SO sure of your version of the event? Why are there so many versions? Why can't people answer very simplistic questions about the event?

"Why would they even bother "planting" light poles. Why didn't anyone notice them taking them down, or sitting alongside the road before the attack? Why complicate a planned attack with things that add nothing to the story, but risk blowing it wide open?"

"*crickets*"

I'd be more than willing to accept an alternate story if it had actual legs to stand on.

And then you have blunt denial of lack of facts.

"People saw it fly into the Pentagon, you know."
"No they didn't."
"Yes, they certainly did."
"No, they are all wrong or lying. No one saw it fly into the Pentagon. We know, we've interviewed all the people."
"All of them?"
"Well half of them, almost. And of those, the few that we couldn't just discount for one reason or another, are all unreliable liars, we know this."

All I've seen so far, is guesswork, supposition, and exaggerations, to try and make some points. The items that they can't conveniently explain away are summarily ignored. That's not good research. That's very poor investigation. And no one imo, has proven a thing.


[edit on 7-3-2010 by fleabit]