9/11 BOMB when 1st plane hit!

9/11 BOMB when 1st plane hit!

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Here is eyewitnes evidences that there were explosions in the bottom of the WTC.

Why would the lobby explode, when the planes hit around the 70th floors does that make any sense?

Why would there be smoke in the WTC subway, when the plane hit the WTC?
Looks more and more like demolitions were going off at the same time the plane hit the WTC.
One firefighter said it looked like a plane hit the lobby.

Who do you all believe the NIST report, or eyewitnesses that were in the WTC?







[edit on 7-3-2010 by impressme]

Is it not possible that a fireball would travel down the elivator shaft? That would definatly create an explosion in the lobby and the basement.

reply to post by lea room


I think you've been watching too many movies, fireballs don't chase you down hallways either.
I don't think the explosion or shock wave could have traveled down through the elevator shafts and I'm pretty sure the building wasn't airtight enough to even make that possible. Maybe airflow could have carried smoke through the lobby, but then again wouldn't the air be flowing upwards because of the heat created by the fire?

[edit on 7-3-2010 by patent98310]

Of course people way say it was "fuel" coming down the shafts, but thats hundreds of floors, many vents along the way, many elevators. and no direct elevator from the impact zone that would allow this to happen.

Another myth is that the none of the elevators worked. Truth is some of them didnt work but lots of them did considering that there were many elevators as you can see in the diagram.


If the flaming jet fuel coming down the shafts blowing out the lobby were true then the sky lobbies would of taken it the greatest and their is no evidence of that but there is lots of evidence and witnesses that saw, heard, felt the explosions seconds before the plane hit and during in the sub levels (basement).

How could flaming jet fuel make it down so far? How could it of jumped to another shaft and sky lobby? Why would the main lobby blow out if it is not really on the ground level. There were i think 5 or 6 floors beneath the lobby.

[edit on 7-3-2010 by Shadow Herder]

Read about all the shuttle elevators, diagrams and witness testimonies here and report back what you find.
sites.google.com...

reply to post by Shadow Herder

and no direct elevator from the impact zone that would allow this to happen.

No direct elevators to lobby?

Truth is were several elevators. passenger and freight which ran entire
building from basement to top (actually 107 floor)

There were 99 passenger elevators in each tower, arranged in three vertical zones to move occupants in stages to skylobbies on the 44th and 78th floors. These were arranged as express (generally larger cars that moved at higher speeds) and local elevators in an innovative system first introduced in WTC 1 and WTC 2. There were 8 express elevators from the concourse to the 44th floor and 10 express elevators from the concourse to the 78th floor as well as 24 local elevators per zone, which served groups of floors in those zones. There were seven freight elevators, only one of which served all floors. All elevators had been upgraded to incorporate firefighter emergency operation per American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME) A17.1 and Local Law 5 (1973).wtc.nist.gov... (PDF pg. 50)

There were two express elevators (#6 and #7) to Windows on the World (and related conference rooms and banquet facilities) in WTC 1 and two to the observation deck in WTC 2. There were five local elevators in each building: three that brought people from the subterranean levels to the lobby, one that ran between floors 106 and 110, and one that ran between floors 43 and 44, serving the cafeteria from the skylobby. All elevators had been upgraded to incorporate firefighter emergency operation requirements.

In addition to the passenger elevators, there were seven freight elevators in each tower; most served a particular zone, while Car 50 served every floor.
* Car #5: B1-5, 6, 9-40, 44
* Car #6: B1-5, 44, 75, 77-107 wtc.nist.gov... (PDF pg. 72)

For an elevator’s cables to be cut and result in dropping the car to the bottom of the shaft, the cables would need to have been in the aircraft impact debris path, floors 93 through 98 in WTC 1 or floors 78 through 83 in WTC 2. Inspection of the elevator riser diagram and architectural floor plans for WTC 1 shows that the following elevators met these criteria: cars 81 through 86 (Bank B) and 87 through 92 (Bank C), local cars in Zone III; car 50, the freight elevator, and car 6, the Zone III shuttle. … Cars 6 and 50 could have fallen all the way to the pit in the sub-basement level, and car 50 in WTC 1 was reported to have done so. wtc.nist.gov...(PDF pg. 160)

As for fires in shaft - skylobby in South (WTC 2) was in the impact zone

Many people were trapped in the elevators and burned when aircraft hit

78th floor
Kelly Reyher, AON Corporation: The elevator split at the seams, the floor blew up. You could just sort of look right through the corner of the elevator into the elevator shaft and it was just all fire.

So I was able to crawl out. And then when I crawled out you just saw an absolute scene of destruction. Across from me, because when you crawl out you're facing the other elevator bank, they were completely destroyed. There was fire just shooting out those. "Accounts From the South Tower" The New York Times, May 26, 2002

Originally posted by impressme
Who do you all believe the NIST report, or eyewitnesses that were in the WTC?

There really is NO conspiracy story that's too ridiculous for you to accept, is there? William Rodriguez himself testified before NIST that the force from the impact fireballs made its way down the freight elevator, broke the cables, and forced the elevator down a number of floors into the basement, burning the occupant as well as people standing in front of the shaft waiting for the elevator.

Here is Rodriquez' own testimony to NIST in 2004:

"The fire, the ball of fire, for example, I was in the basement when the first plane hit the building. And at that moment, I thought it was an electrical generator that blew up at that moment. A person comes running into the office saying explosion, explosion, explosion. When I look at this guy; has all his skin pulled off of his body. Hanging from the top of his fingertips like it was a glove. And I said, what happened? He said the elevators. What happened was the ball of fire went down with such a force down the elevator shaft on the 58th – freight elevator, the biggest freight elevator that we have in the North Tower, it went out with such a force that it broke the cables. It went down, I think seven flights. The person survived because he was pulled from the B3 level. But this person, being in front of the doors waiting for the elevator, practically got his skin vaporized."

If the force from the fireball from the impact area above was powerful enough to snap elevator cables and severely burn people down in the basement...and Rodriguez is specifically testifying that it was...then it certainly would cause similar damage and injuries in the lobby, several floors above. SO, who are you going to believe, eyewitnesses in the WTC or those damned fool conspiracy web sites you're always getting this crap from?

Originally posted by lea room
Is it not possible that a fireball would travel down the elivator shaft? That would definatly create an explosion in the lobby and the basement.

Not trying to debunk anything here, but it's not very likely. Stack effect of upward air flow in any enclosed structure creates a constant and strong upward draft in all tall buildings.

This stack effect would provide much O2 to fan a fire though.

Burning liquid would still be able to travel downward against the draft, but not so much an explosive fireball...it would rather go up.

Originally posted by SLaPPiE

Originally posted by lea room
Is it not possible that a fireball would travel down the elivator shaft? That would definatly create an explosion in the lobby and the basement.

Not trying to debunk anything here, but it's not very likely. Stack effect of upward air flow in any enclosed structure creates a constant and strong upward draft in all tall buildings.

This stack effect would provide much O2 to fan a fire though.

Burning liquid would still be able to travel downward against the draft, but not so much an explosive fireball...it would rather go up.

Perhaps you didn't see GoodOlDave's post immediately above yours where he quoted Rodriguez' testimony to a fireball.

Here is another one from an elevator attendant :-

old.911digitalarchive.org...

There are other witnesses to burns victims in the lobby if you care to look.

reply to post by Alfie1


I saw it man. No fight here.

I'm just saying that a fireball created on an upper floor would:
1) have more upward force due to heat
2)have more upward force due to the static resistance of the elevator shaft and the extra resistance of overcomming the shaft inlet velocity
3)would have to be MASSIVE to create enough force to create a real fireball that could overcome 1&2 and the stack effect.

Now...I am saying a blob of fuel on fire, with air fanning it from below is more likely than fireball.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by impressme
Who do you all believe the NIST report, or eyewitnesses that were in the WTC?

Here is Rodriquez' own testimony to NIST in 2004:

"The fire, the ball of fire, for example, I was in the basement when the first plane hit the building. And at that moment, I thought it was an electrical generator that blew up at that moment. A person comes running into the office saying explosion, explosion, explosion. When I look at this guy; has all his skin pulled off of his body. Hanging from the top of his fingertips like it was a glove. And I said, what happened? He said the elevators. What happened was the ball of fire went down with such a force down the elevator shaft on the 58th – freight elevator, the biggest freight elevator that we have in the North Tower, it went out with such a force that it broke the cables. It went down, I think seven flights. The person survived because he was pulled from the B3 level. But this person, being in front of the doors waiting for the elevator, practically got his skin vaporized."

If the force from the fireball from the impact area above was powerful enough to snap elevator cables and severely burn people down in the basement...and Rodriguez is specifically testifying that it was...then it certainly would cause similar damage and injuries in the lobby, several floors above. SO, who are you going to believe, eyewitnesses in the WTC or those damned fool conspiracy web sites you're always getting this crap from?

If you take the surface area of the top of the elevator, and the cable's designed breaking point, you will find that it takes very little air pressure to create enough force across that area to brake that cable. Think of the elevator car as a piston.

Once the cable breaks, the piston moves downward pushing most of the air below the elevator car down the shaft and out any openings. There would be enough air pressure to make it's own openings.

If there was any fire in the shaft at that time, it would tend to exit with the air.

[edit]
Assume the fireball causing explosion was right in front of the elevator door on an upper floor. The pressure wave would travel outward in all directions while dispersing in all directions. If it had enough force to blow the doors into the shaft, the force would be directed towards the opposite shaft wall, and begin to seek the path of least resistance. That would in fact be a primarily upward direction.

I am not saying that it is not possible for a fireball to travel down, I'm saying it would sure help to have something bringing this restrictive air downward...like a piston.

[edit on 7-3-2010 by SLaPPiE]

[edit on 7-3-2010 by SLaPPiE]

I have seen videos of New York fire fighters saying adamantly that the damage to the lobby of the North and South Towers was simply too great to have been caused by the remnants of a fireball dropping ~700 feet down to the ground.

But, of course, 9/11 truth deniers would never accept that fire fighters can distinguish between fire and bomb damage. After all, they know better, don't they?

Originally posted by SLaPPiE
Assume the fireball causing explosion was right in front of the elevator door on an upper floor. The pressure wave would travel outward in all directions while dispersing in all directions. If it had enough force to blow the doors into the shaft, the force would be directed towards the opposite shaft wall, and begin to seek the path of least resistance. That would in fact be a primarily upward direction.

There is no need to be making any such assumption. We know the remains of the aircraft wreckage reached the inner core becuase it destroyed/damaged the inner stairwells on both side of the inner core shaft, trapping the people in the floors above. The elevators (specifically, the freight elevator) was in the core section as well, which means the fireball wouldn't have been just in front of the elevator door. It would have been INSIDE the elevator shaft as well.

The Naudet brothers' video of the WTC lobby recorded witnesses seeing the exact same "fireballs from the elevators" that Rodrigue reported several floors below, so it's clear the force of the fire did travel down the shaft from the impact area above. The sudden increase in air compression caused by the expanding gasses from burning fuel would probably explain why the windows in the lobby were blown out as well. I wasn't there so I don't know, but I do know that the people who were there were in shock and horror from what was happening right in front of them so it's unlikely they would be spontaneously whipping out their notebooks and writing down every little technical detail that was happening to placate the conspiracy fetishists here.

several people within the core area were injured by the jet fuel blast, and where building engineer Edward McCabe said the blast came "about 30 seconds" after he felt the building shift.

sites.google.com...

30 second delay on the 'fuel blast' theory. Wow.

How about those eyewitness that felt the building explode before the plane hit? There were people in the basement that heard/felt it as well as people outside.

whatreallyhappened.com...

[edit on 7-3-2010 by Shadow Herder]

"
What we heard was 6 and 7 car free-falling from the 107th floor and they impacted the basement at B-2 Level. And that’s the explosion that filled the lobby within a matter of two or three seconds, engulfed the lobby in dust, smoke."


This doesnt take the fact that all elevators today have simple mechanisms that dont allow a car to free fall.

Originally posted by Shadow Herder

several people within the core area were injured by the jet fuel blast, and where building engineer Edward McCabe said the blast came "about 30 seconds" after he felt the building shift.

sites.google.com...

39 second delay on the 'fuel blast' theory. Wow.

How about those eyewitness that felt the building explode before the plane hit? There were people in the basement that heard/felt it as well as people outside.

Can you please explain how anyone in windowless basement levels had any idea they were experiencing an explosion before the plane hit hundreds of feet above them ?

Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by Shadow Herder

several people within the core area were injured by the jet fuel blast, and where building engineer Edward McCabe said the blast came "about 30 seconds" after he felt the building shift.

sites.google.com...

39 second delay on the 'fuel blast' theory. Wow.

How about those eyewitness that felt the building explode before the plane hit? There were people in the basement that heard/felt it as well as people outside.

Can you please explain how anyone in windoless basement levels had any idea they were expereincing a explosion before the plane hit hundreds of feet above them ?

They heard 2 explosions separate from each other. The first one was thought of as a bomb in a van in the sub level or a generator blowing up in the sub basement then shortly after they heard a fainter boom coming from above which was the plane. The first one was much louder and seemed to emanate from the sub level as the eyewitnesses reported along with multiple explosions.

[edit on 7-3-2010 by Shadow Herder]

[edit on 7-3-2010 by Shadow Herder]

Originally posted by Alfie1

Can you please explain how anyone in windowless basement levels had any idea they were experiencing an explosion before the plane hit hundreds of feet above them ?

Also, most people can tell which way is up. The heard explosions below them in the sub levels and then heard something far above them. 2 separate events.

[edit on 7-3-2010 by Shadow Herder]

Originally posted by Shadow Herder

Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by Shadow Herder

several people within the core area were injured by the jet fuel blast, and where building engineer Edward McCabe said the blast came "about 30 seconds" after he felt the building shift.

sites.google.com...

39 second delay on the 'fuel blast' theory. Wow.

How about those eyewitness that felt the building explode before the plane hit? There were people in the basement that heard/felt it as well as people outside.

Can you please explain how anyone in windoless basement levels had any idea they were expereincing a explosion before the plane hit hundreds of feet above them ?

They heard 2 explosions separate from each other. The first one was thought of as a bomb in a van in the sub level or a generator blowing up in the sub basement then shortly after they heard a fainter boom coming from above which was the plane. The first one was much louder and seemed to emanate from the sub level as the eyewitnesses reported along with multiple explosions.

[edit on 7-3-2010 by Shadow Herder]

[edit on 7-3-2010 by Shadow Herder]

That's not what William Rodriguez said at the time.He said " We heard a loud rumble then all of a sudden we heard another rumble like someone moving a whole lot of furniture ".

It’s so nice to see William Rodriguez testimony taken so seriously and now being accepted by the OS Trusters.
Isn’t it rather odd these OS Trusters depend on Rodriguez testimony when it can benefit them to try and discredit people who are looking for truth.

Yet, when the Truthers bring up William Rodriguez name they are scoffed at, by the OS Trusters who always claim that Rodriguez cannot keep his story straight and that he is only in the 911 movement to make money.

So which is it Alfie1, GoodOlDave is William Rodriguez testimony credible?

Talk about two OS Trusters flip flopping on eyewitness testimony.
Fist William Rodriguez is not credible now he is, I love it.

I bet they wont answer my question.


[edit on 7-3-2010 by impressme]