Step 1 for Reforming the Governments of the USA! The law of natural consequences.

reply to post by EnlightenUp


As for your example of the fuel pump.

I have a solution to all these lawsuits and the problems with product manufacturing. We abolish the laws that initially caused these lawsuits to be created.

I am sorry, accidents happen. What we need to do is hold accountable the manufacturers for negligence.

If a manufacturer is negligent in causing harm, they should go to JAIL, not pay a damn fine.

We have all heard of the companies that have done cost analysis of fixing something compared to the lawsuits. WTF!

Anyone doing cost analysis on deaths compared to something that will cost them in lawsuits, compared to fixing the damn problem, need to be tried for murder.

I find the move to incorporate companies was the way they performed this. Remove the criminal liability and make it a money issue was a HUGE detriment to society.

I know for a FACT that smoking cause problems. Now, if I get sick, who's fault is it?

Now if in the future some new product comes out and people get hurt and the producer knew it was dangerous, do we sue them or throw there sorry arses in jail?

Sorry for the rant.

reply to post by endisnighe


No apology needed. I basically agree. Corporations (meaning: the individual people that comprise it) should be responsible for negligence the same way we all would be on an individual basis. People-- real, organic ones-- made decisions and performed actions, not a legal entity, regardless if one considers the entity a legal person.

That shouldn't necessarily bar suing for damages. They shouldn't have blanket protection against it either.

I still think some standards should be met ahead of time and enforced in order to prevent irreversible tragedy in the first place. Of course, you need a government for the people before corporate interests for that to be truely effective without it becoming ridiculous. Now, it stands that warnings and restrictions on older products can be used to stimulate markets for newer products that haven't been adequately tested.

Smoking. Despite what many would have people believe, people have known smoking isn't the greatest thing for health. I know that at least back into the 1950's my father and his friends called them "cancer sticks" and "coffin nails". The Online Etymology Dictionary dates "cancer stick" at 1959. "Coffin nail" seems to date into the 19th century. Of course, the real "reality" of the situation was kept hidden. Whatever.

The problem with ending these laws/protections are that people will have to start thinking for themselves. Our government has worked hard over the past century to make sure that we are babied day in and day out so we will depend on these things and never think for ourselves. You can't control a nation of individuals but through zombification...anything is possible.

reply to post by endisnighe


Smoking. Great thing to add to this thread.

Why does the government need to label tobacco products. We all know they cause cancer and those of us who love nicotine really don't care.

Personally, I loves me some chewing tobacco after the kids hit the hay. It is my me time. My personal comfort.

I know I risk getting cancer, and I don't need every pack I buy to tell me what I already know.

If I get some form of cancer and I find myself without insurance then let me meet my natural consequences... death by cancer. I can live with that. The last thing I will do if I still have a mouth is get one giant mouthful of chew spit and arc it across the room with my dying breath.

I feel like they are stopping natural selection and thats why there is a dumbing down of the nation

reply to post by Kurt Turner


You are correct. Not only are they interfering with natural selection, they are reversing it by rewarding the weak, dumb, and irresponsible for reproducting while at the same time punishing the strong, smart, and responsible for trying to get ahead.

I don't know if it is intentional or its just one of those the road to hell is paved with good intentions scenarios, but it is happening right before our very eyes.

reply to post by Mr Sunchine


See, that is the biggest thing that I hate about the nanny state. They want to control us and protect us from ourselves.

I do not want their protection from myself.

I want a cigar, a cognac and a cigarette without having to pay outrageous money for it.

Boo hoo if I do not live to be 65. I could care less if I do not create enough tax revenue for them.

If I want to try peyote, so be it. A little other psychedelic drug, so be it. I want to put my hand in the fire, so be it. If it hurts no one else but me, who does it hurt? Me. No one else.

But but but but it could hurt our tax revenues or you might have to go to a hospital or something. Well than send me packing if I cannot pay for it or I will find a charity hospital. Of course I have doctor and nurse relatives that I could go to.

Being a Renaissance family, I usually do not need many things from others.

That is what I think our gov hates is people that do not need them. Almost like a person that needs verification for everything they do.

Petulant Government. That is what we have. A petulant child government that wants attention and control of everything we do.

There is a name in there somewhere. Besides the nanny state, we have the petulant child state. Coined here for the first time. If you think about it, it is a great analogy.

Even further with this analogy, we have a schizophrenic duel personality government. On one hand they want to be our nanny, on the other they want our undying devotion and verification of their worth.

I think I am going to write a small thread on that.

reply to post by endisnighe


I think that is a great thread idea. I hope you decide to do it.

I like to think of our government as an abusive parent addicted to gambling. You know the kind of parent that beats you for getting a B instead of an A and then 5 minutes later steals your lunch money to run off to the casino and bet away the family home.

Our government rides our ass about nearly everything we do in life, while at the same time they are running the whole country into oblivion by racking up trillions upon trillions of dollars of debt gambling away our future instead of just accepting they need to change their behavior before its too late.

[edit on 7-3-2010 by Mr Sunchine]

Reading this makes me think of a couple of great tunes with great lyrics.

Rush - "Those who know what's best for us must rise and save us from ourselves"

When will someone rise and save us? Who is going to do it? How long will we have to endure this idiocy? I'm just as guilty as anyone for not doing anything(except yelling and screaming but no one listens to me so that's futile) but what do we do? How does one start a war against idiocy?

Also, Scatterbrain - Goodbye Freedom, Hello Mom"

We'll ban that book and T.V. show,
Forget that movie, no you can't go.
Can't sell that record, don't like that song.
We know what's right we know what's wrong.
Can't have abortions, what's yours ain't yours,
Just obey the laws.
Too young to drink, say no to drugs
We'll take your piss and blood.

'All the world's a stage you get the lead.
Ain't no way I'm gonna play the part of the fool,
There ain't no way man - no way!'

Bikers wear helmets, cars safety belts
You might hurt yourself.
We're watching out, We're watching out
We're watching out for you...

Well the new right's been at work some time
They ain't so new no more
Can you hear 'em knockin'
Knockin' down your door.
1984 has past, forget about Big Brother, Welcome to the 90's where the government's your Mother.

They'll tell you - don't do that.
They'll try and tell you - it's for your own good.
Big Mother is watching you
Mother's protecting you
Mommy knows what's right for you

They force their will on all the rest
They got the power, they know what's best.
The high court is stacked to the right
Old man on the left won't live through the night.

They'll tell you - don't do that
They'll try and tell you - it's for your own good
Big Mother is watching you
Mother's protecting you
Mommy knows what's right for you...
Goodbye Freedom, Hello Mom
The Bill of Rights just disappeared
There it is - whoops it's gone!
Goodbye Freedom, Hello Mom
All your rights just disappeared
Everybody stay calm.

First amendment casualties, but they won't be the
Last,
Kiss the Bill of Rights goodbye it's disappearing
Fast.

They'll tell you - don't do that
They'll try and tell you - it's for your own good
Big Mother is watching you
Mother's protecting you
Mommy knows what's right for you...
Goodbye Freedom, Hello Mom
The Bill of Rights just disappeared
There it is - whoops it's gone!
Goodbye Freedom, Hello Mom
All your rights just disappeared
Everybody stay calm.

I bolded my favorite line from that one. Says it all, really, and that was twenty years ago or so.

I almost got kicked out of a Borders book store recently for saying Frak(well, not that but you get the point). Who the hell is some lady that works there to tell me what I cannot say? Frak her and her corporation. To hell with them all, I say. I'm tired of their fascist crap and refuse to even try and get a job in one even though I'm unemployed and broke.

I won't give them what little soul I have left(after the government has taken their piece) just to earn a measly few bucks. I can earn that at just a crappy job with some little pizza place or whatever and not have to deal with a soul-sucking corporation. I've been there, done that, bought the t-shirt and rode the bull and I ain't going back. Never.

Sorry, I rambled a bit. I tend to get worked up a little more at idiotic things and this thread is full of them. Laws to keep hands on handlebars, SERIOUSLY, what the frak have we come to?

This may sound a bit harsh, but it is laws meant to save us from ourselves that has curtailed natural selection. Ever seen one of those videos of stupid people hurting themselves? My point entirely.

Chrono

Originally posted by Mr Sunchine
This came up as part of the discussion in another thread, but I thought it deseved its own thread.

The issue is laws and regulations that government has passed to protect us from ourselves. For example,
...

Although Congress is typically a Law Making Body, refrain is best applied in repeals. Their current function...

You have to understand that best known for Constitutional Re-Instatement, and Ammendments as such, Recovery has got to go according by way of "mouth".

I'm reminded so often of someone that rolled 'crapps', that it ain't even funny no more...

reply to post by LostNemesis


Yeah you are right, however it would never work.
For this to work you are presuming that everyone has the common sense and logic that most people on this website does.

But thats not true, I knew a guy who was in a car accident at aged 18. He wasnt wearing a seatbelt so went flying into the other car and nearly died (sparing you the gory details).

Well what he got from this was beliving, car accidents are bad and that we would of been badly injured regardless if he wasn wearing a seatbelt or not. Even though the guy with him in the car who was wearing a seatbelt escaped the accident totally unharmed!!!

Very sadly, but ironically, this guy died in january this year in a car accident (when we had all that snow). And guess what he wasnt wearing a seatbelt.

reply to post by tomtom


I am sorry that your friend died, but what happened to him was natural consequences.

reply to post by TheLoony


Well I read somewhere that California is trying to outlaw cussing all together. Go figure. The nanniest nanny state of the country wanting to control what you can say, because it harshes their buzz when you say the f word.

[edit on 7-3-2010 by Mr Sunchine]

For those of you who don't remember the 50's and 60's because you are too young, we rode in the back of pickup trucks. We drank out of waterhoses that (gasp!) had been laying on the ground. We even drank after each other, and we didn't always wash our hands before we ate a snack!
I stepped on a lot of nails and didn't get a tetnus shot.
I don't need the the government to constantly tell me what is dangerous. I didn't need the government to protect me then, and I don't need it now.
Kids should be able to enjoy the wind in their hair while they ride in the back of a pickup! They shouldn't have to worry about catching something because they didn't wash their hands, and most of all, parents need to chill out! Let your kids be kids. Look out for them, love them, and protect them when you can, but realize that life has consequences and the only way to learn that is to live life!

reply to post by kettlebellysmith


Great post. According to the government lovers, we shouldn't even be alive today.

When I was a kid I rode to Florida from Ohio with no seat belt. I am not even sure we had seat belts. Maybe they were just tucked down in the cushions.

We used to ride in the back of trucks. We used to ride in the back of station wagons wiht the seats down. We used to lay down in the back of the truck and then slide to the front when the truck stopped quickly for fun. We used to tie inner tubes on the back of the truck in the winter and go sledding behind the truck.

We used to eat dirt in dare games. We used to catch bugs, catch snakes, catch anything that couldnt catch us first.

We used to fistfight for fun. We used to play army with toy guns, and when we got older we played army with BB guns and safety goggles (becaue we werent dumb enough to want to be blind).

We used to jump garbage cans on our bikes. We used to race skateboards down the middle of the street. Anddd egadsss, we used to do all of this without having to wear a helmet or knee pads.

I remember we used to get a lot of scrapes and bruises and the occasional broken bone, but those were like trophies to be compared and used for bragging rights. My mom probably bought stock in Bactine and Mecurachrome (got that stuff burned).

Oh the good old days when kids could be kids and we played to win and if you lost you were a LOOOOOOSER and nobody wanted to be a looser so we all worked harder to be the winner. Remember the world when coming in second meant you sucked and your coach would tell you that you had to work twice as hard next time because he hates to loose too?

Originally posted by Mr Sunchine
reply to post by tomtom

 

I am sorry that your friend died, but what happened to him was natural consequences.

What's even worse, in the official report filed for press release...

"If he had worn his seat...", doesn't bear repeating here.

reply to post by Mr Sunchine


You went right into another HUGE problem of today's nanny state.

We are all winners, even if we are losers. MY GOD does that annoy me.

I have seen a vid on how our countries attitude of babying our kids with this nanny state crap is making the children want to please whomever is saying everything is fine with failure. The child instead of wanting to do better, they only want to not fail.

I cannot remember where I watched it, but it goes into how if we push the child to succeed, they will try harder. Where as they do not, if we pat them on the back in the case of doing badly.

C'mon folks, you did not win because you tried, you won because you did your best and the next time, you will win because you practiced 5 times as hard as the next.

Who took 10th in the medal count this year? Hell I do not know, but I do know the US kicked ass and took the most EVER.

Who took 7th in the Gold Medal count this year? Hell I do not know, but I do know the Canadians took the most EVER!

Way to go Canada! KICK ASS!

[edit on 3/7/2010 by endisnighe]

One of the most useless laws the state of Calif passed was Proposition 65 requires the State to publish a list of chemicals known to cause cancer or birth defects or other reproductive harm. This list, which must be updated at least once a year, has grown to include approximately 775 chemicals since it was first published in 1987.

All businesses that use or have any of these chemical at there businesses have to post warming signs.

There are so many chemicals hidden in products that are on the list now businesses don't even check they just post the sign on the front door.
www.signs4safety.com...
oehha.ca.gov...

Now all businesses post the warning signs just in case so they don't get fined.

reply to post by ANNED


I can see it now, the ink in signs being put on the list.

Imagine a sign saying-

This sign, in the State of California has been determined to cause cancer.

Oh I love it!