What Happened To Phobos 1 And What Did The Russians Find?

reply to post by metalholic


G'day metalholic

I have consulted with Armap, who has encyclopaedic knowledge of space exploration photo sets such as this ........thanks Armap

Armap provided me with the following link to this series of relevant photo sets:

lunexit.it...

You can see the long, grey strip very clearly in the 1st few photos.

Armap agrees with me.....it's an image error. Armap states it's most likely a transmission error. That position appears to be supported by the commentary accompanying the photos.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

[edit on 7-3-2010 by Maybe...maybe not]

Originally posted by Son of Will
But I definitely agree, the ancients possessed an impossible body of astronomical knowledge. To say that we clearly know more today is simply arrogant and possibly not true....
This companion star, called Sirius B, wasn't even discovered until 1970.

Well, they may have known more astronomy than YOU know, but don't generalize that level of insight. Regarding real astronomy, they knew about what folks in Europe would have known in the WW1 era when many thousands of young men from the tribe spent years in France.

But they didn't know more. For example, they report knowing about Saturn's rings -- known in Europe for centuries -- but they never reported knowing about Jupiuter's rings, Neptune's rings, Uranus's rings, all not discovered until late in the 20th century and apparently unknown to WHOMEVER it was that taught them astronomy.

Originally posted by metalholic
reply to post by ziggystar60

 

after seeing what the 2 of you presented i ask...why couldnt anyone explain this before? if it was the moon wouldnt any expert be able to figure out hey that was the moon phobos's shadow!

They have been explaining it year after year. Somehow you were unable to find it. The books and websites you chose to trust withheld that info from you. Do you still trust them?

Originally posted by Maybe...maybe not

Originally posted by metalholic
reply to post by Maybe...maybe not

 

what about the strip stretching 300km whats that been determined as?

G'day again metalholic

The strip stretching 300km.....?

Sorry.....I'm being a bit thick.....

Which strip?

Hang on..... are you refering to the elongated nature of the shadow?

If so, that's just the angle at which the shadow was being cast at that time.

The images are also strip composites -- moving objects can stretch out.

OP:

Did y'all even TRY to search for other points of view, or are you demanding one-on-one remedial tutorials?

Fobos-2 'strange fate' explained:

www.space.com...

reply to post by JimOberg


G'day Jim

Thanks for your reply.....however brief

It's always good to see you visit the threads.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

I'm glad Jim has joined the discussion, especially because he wrote a comprehensive article covering most facets of the Phobos program saga.
I've noticed though that many don't take the time to read long articles, so, I will humbly try to make a long story short.
To say it very poorly, Phobos I suffered from a failure due to some software update gone very wrong.
Basically, during the tests made on the ground, a part of a routine was to disable the attitude thrusters: of course, this was not meant to happen during the actual mission, but strangely enough, when they've upped a software update, this one carried with it also the instruction to disable them: this determined the unwanted shutdown and consequently the loss of lock on the Sun: and since the spacecraft was unable to orient its solar arrays, batteries got depleted and goodbye Phobos 1. The details weren't disclosed as far as i know, but most likely it has been a matter of being in a hurry; since the software was written on some read-only memory, it wasn't possible to replace the code without replacing the whole harware, so they've decided to use the software anyway, taking care to DON'T use that part of the routine. Well, as we can see, somehow they've used it, and it worked even too well.
Actually, the part of code in question was supposed to be harmless, in some kind of quarantine, protected by some kind of key (i don't know the details), but a ground controller's mistake caused that part of sequence to be activated, with much of their surprise (and disappointment). There's a
statement from R.S. Kremnev, director of the soviet spacecraft manufacturing plant, about it;

Unfortunately, the key was found to unlock the safe. On 29 August 1988, not long after launch, a ground controller omitted a single letter in a series of digital commands sent to the spacecraft. And by malignant bad luck, that omission caused the code to be mistranslated in just such a way as to trigger the test sequence. Phobos 1 went into a tumble that was not noticed until the next attempt at contact, 2 days later. It was never recovered.
Kremnev said that future versions will have more on-board safeguards.

This has been, more or less, the sad & inglorious end of Phobos 1, as far as I know. Now, of course I don't know if it's true or if they've decided to expose themselves to some worldwide ridicule in order to cover-up some alien intervention: I wasn't onboard when the incident happened, so i don't have the ultimate proof to share, but let me say that i consider their explanation perfectly acceptable, given the circumstances (by the way, the mistake was tracked down by the controller who made the mistake himself, but it's still unclear what happened to his arse after the discover of the mistake: according to Kremnev, he wasn't sent to Siberia).

Regarding Phobos 2, there are some articles covering it, including Jim's one (Jim, here's the fixed link btw
www.space.com... )
also Ralph Hartley's one ( covering both incidents, here)
but regarding Phobos 2 incident and imageering issues, Jim's article offers a better detailed coverage in my humble opinion.
To put it too into poor words anyway, Phobos 2 was lost two times, the second one has been the last & fatal one:
the first one (after the transmitter was kept off in order to spare energy), they couldn't get any signal from the spacecraft, and only after sending an emergency command they've managed to re-estabilish the contact: but the signal that they were receiving came from the small antenna. During this lapse of time, they've received 17 minutes of telemetry data (which by the way they were unable to even decipher, at the beginning: only much time later they've managed to).
And after those 17 minutes, voila: lost was forever the poor Phobos II, and together with it, gone was the whole Phobos program (R.I.P.).
According to R.S. Kremnev himself, it was later determined that there were no doubt that the failure was in the on board computer, and that some collision as being the cause could be 100% ruled out.
The complete data set from the imaging spectrometer of the Phobos-2 spacecraft, including the data themselves at various levels of processing
(raw telemetry data, EDR, fully calibrated data, derived data),can be found here:
www.ias.u-psud.fr...

I'd like also to point out that it was not the russians who claimed it was an UFO, but ONE russian: former soviet test pilot Marina Popovich

in the same article, Sitchin refers to the elongated shadow: this also generated much confusion, because many didn't understand that they were talking about to two different images; now, it's very safe to say that both them have found a full explanation, but i do understand how, especially the apparent "cigar shaped object", and especially at the beginning, had become so popular.
What would still be unclear is whether Marina Popovich deliberately lied or not: she claimed to have received the photo (that can be seen in the article above) by soviet cosmonaut Aleksei Leonov;
That would imply that she was a victim of some joke from Leonov, but honestly i don't think Leonov has anything to do with the story of the photo, and i have some reasons to.
Actually, Leonov himself attacked Popovich's credibility more than once:
an example can be found here:
www.americanchronicle.com...

In fairness, i have to say that Marina Popovich's background is definately noteworthy, but a good background has not the ability to turn BS into gold.
And, in fairness again, it's not the first time that Popovich tried to pass off something for something else (basically, what we're used to call HOAX):
in this article (scroll down to half page), Kentaro Mori wrote about her attempt to pass off a photo of a wax sculpture for some real alien being, see also
O Marciano que usava Zíper by Luis Ruiz Noguez: in Portuguese, but with many images of both the photo in question and the wax sculpture.
That the photo was made public by Popovich in Munich, in June of 1990, is fact: even Linda Corriveau herself (she's the author of the was sculpture in question) stated it, in this article where she tells the whole story:
In Praise of
Strange, Strange World
(or How the Man of my Dreams Came Back to Haunt Me)
www.slimeworld.org...

This stunt by Mrs Popovich, by itself, would set (in my humble opinion) automatically her credibility some hundreds points below zero, but you decide: in the meantime, let's add to her curriculum one attempt to pass off as some gigantic cigar shaped alien spacecraft some image failure, and one attempt to pass off as some photos showing some real alien being two photos showing a wax model, nuff' said.
Thanks for sharing, and sorry for not replying before.

www.space.com...
www.federalspace.ru...
catless.ncl.ac.uk...
www.bibliotecapleyades.net...
forgetomori.com...
www.slimeworld.org...
www.ceticismoaberto.com...

reply to post by internos


G'day Internos

Thank you for your clear & succinct summary of the Phobos events

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

reply to post by ziggystar60


"Regarding the the last photo taken by Phobos II, ATS member internos has made an absolutely excellent thread about it. He shows that the cigar shaped "object" seen in the photo is not some kind of alien spacecraft, but simply an image glitch:"

i I find it odd that all of the Russian Scientists and the entire scienitic community couldnt deduce this at the time the photo's were presented?

Mayan calendar more accurate than all of the developing "western" cultures of Rome ..etc.. in that they were able to take in account Precession (the earth's wobble" and simply knowing that the earth was tilited on its axis..the Mayan's deduced this by looking at the stars..not to mention that the planet earth as the 7th planet as you counted from the outer planets in ward to the sun...as did the Sumerians?

reply to post by ziggystar60


"Regarding the the last photo taken by Phobos II, ATS member internos has made an absolutely excellent thread about it. He shows that the cigar shaped "object" seen in the photo is not some kind of alien spacecraft, but simply an image glitch:"

i I find it odd that all of the Russian Scientists and the entire scienitic community couldnt deduce this at the time the photo's were presented?

Mayan calendar more accurate than all of the developing "western" cultures of Rome ..etc.. in that they were able to take in account Precession (the earth's wobble" and simply knowing that the earth was tilited on its axis..the Mayan's deduced this by looking at the stars..not to mention that the planet earth as the 7th planet as you counted from the outer planets in ward to the sun...as did the Sumerians?

reply to post by ziggystar60


"Regarding the the last photo taken by Phobos II, ATS member internos has made an absolutely excellent thread about it. He shows that the cigar shaped "object" seen in the photo is not some kind of alien spacecraft, but simply an image glitch:"

i I find it odd that all of the Russian Scientists and the entire scienitic community couldnt deduce this at the time the photo's were presented?

Mayan calendar more accurate than all of the developing "western" cultures of Rome ..etc.. in that they were able to take in account Precession (the earth's wobble" and simply knowing that the earth was tilited on its axis..the Mayan's deduced this by looking at the stars..not to mention that the planet earth as the 7th planet as you counted from the outer planets in ward to the sun...as did the Sumerians?