CNN: Conspiracy Theorists Are Potential "Suicide Warriors" & Are Mentally Disturbed, page 11

Originally posted by davesidious
reply to post by seataka

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Your friend's dad saying stuff doesn't make it true. This is why people laugh at conspiracy theorists - that baseless statements are elevated to the level of absolute truth (if they support the conspiracy theorist's theory), yet comprehensive research is ignored (if it contradicts said theory).

Some dude claiming things doesn't make it true, no matter how much you want it to be.

I was hoping you would say that.. here is a picture of Dr Thomas Carroll's son, my friend, with John Foster Dullus. His dad is cropped off the right side of this image...






I also saw a signed letter from Defense Secretary Robert Macnamara, who reviewed the evidence that I did, you know, the one who had an attack of conscience 20 years later and published a book admitting that the USA Lied to get us into Vietnam and that WE THE PEOPLE , those old hippies, that we were right....all along.

Would you like to see THAT letter (with my pals address redacted?)

Ex defense Sec Robert McNamara's letter states that my source is credible and his information should be considered for major publications...but seems this has not happenned yet....despite that letter... maybe I was told this stuff, because he knew I would eventually publicize it.. as my "religion" is one of having no secrets....

warmest regards
Seataka
.
"...Secrecy is the keystone of all tyranny. Not force, but secrecy... censorship. When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, 'This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know,' the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives." --Robert A. Heinlein, -If This Goes On

And there are many more photos...and there was a heated confrontation between Ike, Dullus and Dr Carroll... it was some time after this, that Ike himself woke up to the fact that perhaps Dr Carroll was right.. and later made his famous Warning speech about

"The Military Industrial Complex"


(changed Robert Carroll to Thomas Carroll - was my memory error.)

[edit on 11-3-2010 by seataka]

[edit on 11-3-2010 by seataka]

reply to post by seataka

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Hahahaha! Your friend's invisible dad? The plot thickens!

And yes, I would love to have a copy of that letter. It better state the assertions, and how they are valid, otherwise it fails to be as damning as you claim it to be.

Thanks for proving my point.

Pic of dadfrom GW Alumi site President of GWU...

Ford Foundation Archives reference to Thomas Carroll
www.fordfound.org...


[edit on 11-3-2010 by seataka]

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by Recouper

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Most people, in my experience, frequently express the view that conspiracy theorists are crazy

Yes, that's true in many scenarios, but in my experience the same people will happily tell you they do think there's something going on, just so long as somebody who'd make a big scene about them saying that isn't in earshot (like yourself).

Originally posted by Astyanax
Psychologists, academics and commentators on current affairs mostly also regard conspiracy theories as false and psychologically aberrant. Many psychologists see them as a form of hysteria.

Of course they do, on record anyway. For such people there are social and professional consequences to having any appearance of acquiescence or association with conspiracy theorists or their theories. Which brings us to your google search results; Wikipedia is always at the top of google search results and I believe it likely touts the 'professional' (in other words, bound by peer pressure) opinion of whoever wrote the article. Psychologytoday.com, BBC.co.uk, these are big, well funded and likely to be at the top of a google search and the BBC is not going to take any responsibility for telling you anything about Scotland's Lord Advocate appearing to be concealing a top-level paedophile ring (just as an example).

Originally posted by Astyanax
Gosh, is that really what I was doing? All I thought I was doing was writing as persuasively as possible. Are you sure you're not falling victim to a bit of conspiracy-theoretical reality-distortion yourself?

You're innocent? Man, you've got a nerve!

"conspiracy-theoretical reality-distortion" <- what do you think that is. I'll tell you what it is, it's low and dirty. We may be both part of the same species, but you are behaving vilely!

If you want to tell people that you think their crazy, just man up and tell them straight that you think their crazy. Using coercive subterfuge to attempt to make those people subconsciously feel a certain way about their own intelligence is a rubbish thing to do and doesn't really get you anything. Apart from some imagined satisfaction, there's nothing for you to gain. You're just screwing with people for nothing in the end.


Edited because I forgot an info tag on a quote.

[edit on 14/3/2010 by Recouper]

Originally posted by AntiNWO

Originally posted by gatewaywithin

...At this rate anyone who speaks out against anything will soon be labeled a terrorist.

If the definition of "terrorist" or "disident" is broad enough then anyone who disagrees with the status quo becomes a criminal of the highest degree. That's what this government wants so that they can "disappear" anyone they want, at any time. Just disagreeing with them gives them the right. And read The Patriot Act - no need for pesky warrants or to notify anyone where you'll be staying for the next several years.

The US congress now works for the Chinese.

China will now be dictating US foriegn and domestic policy.

US government agencies and troops will be sporting a new flag soon to replace thier American flag shoulder patch.

China wants US reassurance over dollar

(AP) – 10 hours ago

BEIJING — China's premier expressed concern about the U.S. dollar and called on Washington on Sunday to take "concrete steps" to reassure Beijing about the safety of its huge Treasury bond holdings.

"Any fluctuation in the value of the U.S. currency is a big concern for us," Premier Wen Jiabao said at a news conference.

"We cannot afford any mistake, how slight it is, when running our financial assets," he said. "I would like the United States to take concrete steps to reassure investors."
China has pressed Washington to control its yawning budget deficit and prevent inflation that would erode the value of the dollar and China's holdings.

The premier said Treasury values were a matter of the "national credibility" of the United States.

www.google.com...

[edit on 14-3-2010 by In nothing we trust]

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by DjSharperimage

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The second of these causes is the internet. Conspiracy theorists are, or were, rare and marginal in any real-world community, their mad ideas given short shrift by the majority of levelheaded, normal citizens. But the internet clusters like-minded conspiracy theorists in a nongeographical way, giving them and their theories a visibility and apparent importance they would not otherwise have. ATS itself is an example of how this works.

Sadly due to the maximum characters I had to snip a lot of your post but I have to say I disagree with it wholeheartedly, all of it. As space is minimal I will tale umbrage with this point.

The real problem is that the authorities are losing control of the grip of information (thanks to the internet) China is a prime example of somewhere trying to stop this tide of information but the net is used by experts of every professional sphere and you will get people who know things more deeply than the voice of authority which proclaims to know it.
This is what leads to further analysis and in turn brings out the questions which in turn can lead to answers. This is what the problem here is.

reply to post by Recouper

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I don't go around gratuitously insulting people, but I have to admit that post of yours was pretty crazy.

I have already stated quite clearly that, in my view, a small but significant minority of ATS members are, indeed, mentally deranged, and that a great many of the rest, while sane enough, have been temporarily infected by hysterical narratives confabulated and expounded by mentally disturbed folk. I don't see how I can say it any plainer than that.

And such is only to be expected, since confabulated, hysterical narratives in the media are precisely the subject-matter of these forums.

Using coercive subterfuge to attempt to make those people subconsciously feel a certain way about their own intelligence is a rubbish thing to do and doesn't really get you anything.

I am mindful of, and duly grateful for, the compliment (unintended, I'm sure) you pay my writing skills by conjecturing that I apply some evil, mindbending, meme-implanting technique when composing my posts. Thank you very kindly indeed; but all the same, that idea is quite insane. I'm a writer. I write as well as I know how. That's all there is to it.

By the way, what do you think of my new avatar?

[edit on 15/3/10 by Astyanax]

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by Recouper

By the way, what do you think of my new avatar?

That looks like Kim Jong Il, except thinner.... Those sunnies definitely look like his though. I see that you've put your location as Pyongyang, so I guess it is Kim.... is that recent photo?

Originally posted by Astyanax
I am mindful of, and duly grateful for, the compliment (unintended, I'm sure) you pay my writing skills...

Not so unintended. Your writing skill is indeed compliment worthy. I'm not sure you don't know this already, but I'm not saying you are using some advanced NLP trick that requires years of training. My accusation is that while you are seeking to make an impact, you seem to have no compunction descending into nefarious ways.

Any educated adult can choose to inflect subconscious self doubt onto those they address, but generally wouldn't because of their conscience.

I'm not sure you'd be prepared to hear me and I might be wasting my time and annoying you, but here it is: when you write like the way you did on page 4, you're not likely to persuade anybody to your point of view. You may convince them to keep their own thoughts to themselves because you have wilfully changed the environment. I suspect that now you have read that, you may see that it's true. Then again, because it's coming from me you may not wish to entertain the idea.

The topic of this thread is a serious one whether you agree with John Avalon or not. You're right, you can write well. If you want to persuade people that John Avalon is right, try to persuade them. You don't need to attack people who identify themselves as conspiracy theorists (and you know that most people on this forum do), and I believe that you could agree with me that you would have a better chance of success from not doing so.

I appreciate conspiracy theorists and I hope they continue to bring my attention to things going on which aren't making the mainstream news, and I hope they continue to bring my attention to discrepancies within news reports, political banter, historical record, etc.

If you would like to debate that (and I know that you'd be a formidable debating opponent), I will not insinuate that you are a shill, a sheeple, or any such thing (I believe to do so is ridiculous and unsavoury). I will respect you and you're opinion and review your sources. I don't need to point out what I won't respect, I'm sure you get the idea.

reply to post by Recouper

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No further debate is required; our respective positions are pretty clear. I stand by what I have said, and my intention in saying it was most certainly to make those who believe in conspiracy theories doubt the truth of those theories, and their own wisdom and rationality in subscribing to them.

Thus far you are right, but I don't know why you call my tactics underhand. I've been open about my intentions from the very outset. Indeed, I hope I've made you doubt whatever conspiracy theories you may currently subscribe to at least a little.

My avatar is indeed a representation of Mr. Bad Hair himself, Kim Jong Il. More here. But you haven't yet said whether you like it or not...

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by Recouper

---

I have already stated quite clearly that, in my view, a small but significant minority of ATS members are, indeed, mentally deranged, and that a great many of the rest, while sane enough, have been temporarily infected by hysterical narratives confabulated and expounded by mentally disturbed folk. I don't see how I can say it any plainer than that.

And such is only to be expected, since confabulated, hysterical narratives in the media are precisely the subject-matter of these forums.

I got a little 'caught up in the moment' and forgot to address this observation (which apart from the low blows, I personally find quit reasonable).

I argue that sensationalised media reports are only a percentage of the subject matter of these forums and that small but significant minority of ATS members you refer to are only expressing their opinions which they have decided must be fact (I'm generalising) while the rest of the members are objective enough to judge what seems to have a genuine reason to be looked into and what is groundless. I've seen posts that I find rather astonishing in there assertions. There is a minority member base who entertain such a view of reality, but those who don't, well they don't.

There are a lot of threads which leave you genuinely wondering what the truth is and some that provide you with enough evidence to outright prove that someone's lying with profound consequences.
In short, there is a minority who's claims are difficult to take seriously and presented with no facts. But the rest are mostly presenting reasonable theories based on evidence they share for review.
I have noticed that most members consider sources to be practically compulsory if you want your opinion to be given any serious consideration.

Originally posted by Astyanax
My avatar is indeed a representation of Mr. Bad Hair himself, Kim Jong Il. More here. But you haven't yet said whether you like it or not...

Apologies, yes I do. I find it thought provoking, especially after visiting the referenced site.

You know, I really worry about South Korea. It's kept me awake at times. North Korea have artillery pointing at major South Korean cities. Soul could be turned into a crater in the course of an afternoon. The obliteration of those people would be... I really can't find words.
Don't get me wrong, the current suffering in North Korea is never far from my thoughts.

More conspiracy-theorist suicide-warrior news this morning...

US 'Christian militants' charged after FBI raids

A statement on the website says the group are preparing to defend themselves upon the arrival of the Antichrist.

The website says (the group) is "preparing for the end time battles to keep the testimony of Jesus Christ alive".

reply to post by davidgrouchy

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Whatever happened to " Equal Time " in the MSM Today ? Both sides of an Issue have a Right to be heard in this Country when it comes to presenting to the American people on a Nationally Televised News Network Political Discourses of the Pro and Con . Without that , all Major News Stories just become pure Propaganda , and as such lose all Creditability in the eyes of the Public at large IMO .

[edit on 29-3-2010 by Zanti Misfit]

reply to post by MemoryShock

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" We have had "domestic terrorist attacks" before and because there wasn't an internet community, much less a conspiracy community, we weren't even on the radar. "


Speaking of Domestic Terrorism , amoung others, the John Birch Society laid the ground work for that as far back as 1952 . The Assertions made in this Video were fortunately not forgotten by those Americans who to this day , fight for their Constitutional Freedoms in an ever increasing Hostile Political climate .


www.youtube.com...

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