This should be stickied. It sends a message to the media (I know they are reading ATS) that we aren't going to fly planes into buildings.
Violence IS NOT The Answer - A plea to all ATS members, page 1
privacy
Topic started on 6-3-2010 @ 01:28 PM by _BoneZ_
Ladies and gentlemen, it matters not what conspiracy we believe in. There are many of us from many different decades, countries, races, and religions
that post here and we can all become frustrated from time to time with many things in life.
We can also get frustrated with the way governments and politicians treat we the people. Be it the JFK conspiracy, the moon landing conspiracy, 9/11 conspiracy, Roswell, UFO coverup, IRS tax "laws", etc., the evidence for many conspiracies can add stress to a person, especially in these tough economic times, if you let it stress you.
But if you're secretly planning to run a small plane into a building or shoot up some Pentagon police officers, you have to ask yourself two things:
1.) How are you going to change anything by hurting or killing innocent people?
2.) How are you going to be a voice by getting yourself arrested or killed?
A Pentagon police officer doesn't cover up conspiracies at the Pentagon. He's just there for security. An IRS worker doesn't make the tax laws. These are just ordinary people like you or me with ordinary jobs, with families and children to go home to every day.
We the people can be a voice by letting politicians know that if they won't do the will of the people, then we have the power to vote them out and vote someone in who can. We can also be a voice by doing what we're doing right here on ATS by informing others and informing media outlets.
But I find it disturbing that threads like THIS are allowed to attack an entire conspiracy group and this entire website for the actions of one person. A person who had a history of other problems including mental problems. If this person had believed in the moon landing conspiracies instead, do you think there would be a thread attacking all moon conspiracy believers? I doubt it.
The 9/11 truth movement has always advocated peace and nonviolence and that is found on every 9/11 research website in some form or another. Those who commit violence are not associated with any research organization within the 9/11 truth movement no matter what conspiracy theory they believe in.
If you're having an urge to commit any type of violence because of your anger or dissatisfaction, talk to someone. Anyone, be it a counselor or just a good friend. There are also anonymous hotlines you can call to talk to someone, but just getting it off your chest is better than keeping it bottled up inside until you burst. There is always someone somewhere to talk to.
Who knows exactly why some of these people have done what they've done, but I'd much rather be free and alive to have a voice than to do something stupid that could get me arrested or killed, effectively ending any chance you had of being a voice.
[edit on 6-3-2010 by _BoneZ_]
We can also get frustrated with the way governments and politicians treat we the people. Be it the JFK conspiracy, the moon landing conspiracy, 9/11 conspiracy, Roswell, UFO coverup, IRS tax "laws", etc., the evidence for many conspiracies can add stress to a person, especially in these tough economic times, if you let it stress you.
But if you're secretly planning to run a small plane into a building or shoot up some Pentagon police officers, you have to ask yourself two things:
1.) How are you going to change anything by hurting or killing innocent people?
2.) How are you going to be a voice by getting yourself arrested or killed?
A Pentagon police officer doesn't cover up conspiracies at the Pentagon. He's just there for security. An IRS worker doesn't make the tax laws. These are just ordinary people like you or me with ordinary jobs, with families and children to go home to every day.
We the people can be a voice by letting politicians know that if they won't do the will of the people, then we have the power to vote them out and vote someone in who can. We can also be a voice by doing what we're doing right here on ATS by informing others and informing media outlets.
But I find it disturbing that threads like THIS are allowed to attack an entire conspiracy group and this entire website for the actions of one person. A person who had a history of other problems including mental problems. If this person had believed in the moon landing conspiracies instead, do you think there would be a thread attacking all moon conspiracy believers? I doubt it.
The 9/11 truth movement has always advocated peace and nonviolence and that is found on every 9/11 research website in some form or another. Those who commit violence are not associated with any research organization within the 9/11 truth movement no matter what conspiracy theory they believe in.
If you're having an urge to commit any type of violence because of your anger or dissatisfaction, talk to someone. Anyone, be it a counselor or just a good friend. There are also anonymous hotlines you can call to talk to someone, but just getting it off your chest is better than keeping it bottled up inside until you burst. There is always someone somewhere to talk to.
Who knows exactly why some of these people have done what they've done, but I'd much rather be free and alive to have a voice than to do something stupid that could get me arrested or killed, effectively ending any chance you had of being a voice.
[edit on 6-3-2010 by _BoneZ_]
reply posted on 6-3-2010 @ 02:35 PM by Kram09
reply to post by Esau Must Die
Well Gandhi and Martin Luther King seemed to do alright. I don't recall them being violent or advocating violence.
Well Gandhi and Martin Luther King seemed to do alright. I don't recall them being violent or advocating violence.
reply posted on 6-3-2010 @ 03:03 PM by Kram09
reply to post by TheCoffinman
Yes, but it seems to me by using violence you lose the moral high ground.
If you start using violence you can't exactly complain when the government uses violence back against you.
If however you are protesting peacefully and the government uses violence against you then what does that show?
Yes, but it seems to me by using violence you lose the moral high ground.
If you start using violence you can't exactly complain when the government uses violence back against you.
If however you are protesting peacefully and the government uses violence against you then what does that show?
reply posted on 6-3-2010 @ 03:19 PM by gwydionblack
reply to post by _BoneZ_
You're topic is just silly. Violence has shaped this world since the beginning of time. To tell people just to ignore instinct is just preposterous. The powers that be know that violence is the only way to achieve any type of change, and that is why they indoctrinate peace and silent revolution as methods you can use for change.
Senseless violence is silly, yes. The points of the attacks in Texas and the Pentagon, while the men had good intentions and were very educated, accomplished nothing because they let emotions get in the way. If you know the Art of War then you know that emotions are the downfall to any violent action, and will be the downfall of any war for change.
reply to post by Phlynx
This should be stickied just as must as a "Joe Stack is a hero" thread. This is an opinion, and it is an attempt to weed out human instinct. Many more men with much larger bases of followers have tried, and it has accomplished nothing.
Even the most peaceful human being alive could be pushed hard enough to turn violent - this is nature. This is instinct. You may have made your barriers stronger and wider than others, but every many who is of mental stability has their limits. Trust me.
reply to post by Esau Must Die
Good points, I would have posted myself but you beat me to it.
I'm not sure where people got the idea that violence would just somehow disappear, but I can guarantee that you can't weed out nature.
reply to post by SaturnFX
Ghandi I'll let you slide on. MLK was arguably only successful in Revolution thanks to the defiance of Malcom X and the violence that was coupled with the movement. Jesus is just flat out wrong. The amount of violence associated with Jesus is so undeniable that it is ludicrous to think it wasn't violent. If it wasn't for the violent death of Jesus, Christianity would have never taken a foothold.
Cowards control sheep because they are afraid that they might get violent and overthrow them.
Please.
THAT old wives tale. Anybody can lie. Even those who are pure become corrupt when surrounded by corruption. It becomes second nature.
You need to look up the definition of "revolutionary" when it comes to change to realize the last revolution that US had was when the Federal Reserve took over.
The Soviet Union collapsed because of their own doing. It wasn't because people calmly waited by and voted people out of office. They made mistakes, some of them the same mistakes the US is making today - and thus which led to their collapse.
reply to post by Kram09
The government has used violence against peaceful protests. I have seen them attack innocent passerbys and people involved in protests for no apparent reason. They have used sonic weapons, tear gas, and some I have even seen physically attack protested.
It goes to show that THEY understand that violence works - and it does. You don't see those people continuing to stand around. They leave. The protest is quelled. Another voice - silenced. They make their point while the point of the protesters disappears with the wind.
In the very least, when we use violence against them we get noticed - something they refuse to do when people peacefully march. It is only by getting noticed that others too will notice and others too will follow.
You're topic is just silly. Violence has shaped this world since the beginning of time. To tell people just to ignore instinct is just preposterous. The powers that be know that violence is the only way to achieve any type of change, and that is why they indoctrinate peace and silent revolution as methods you can use for change.
Senseless violence is silly, yes. The points of the attacks in Texas and the Pentagon, while the men had good intentions and were very educated, accomplished nothing because they let emotions get in the way. If you know the Art of War then you know that emotions are the downfall to any violent action, and will be the downfall of any war for change.
reply to post by Phlynx
This should be stickied just as must as a "Joe Stack is a hero" thread. This is an opinion, and it is an attempt to weed out human instinct. Many more men with much larger bases of followers have tried, and it has accomplished nothing.
Even the most peaceful human being alive could be pushed hard enough to turn violent - this is nature. This is instinct. You may have made your barriers stronger and wider than others, but every many who is of mental stability has their limits. Trust me.
reply to post by Esau Must Die
Good points, I would have posted myself but you beat me to it.
I'm not sure where people got the idea that violence would just somehow disappear, but I can guarantee that you can't weed out nature.
reply to post by SaturnFX
Tell that to Ghandi, MLK, Jesus
Ghandi I'll let you slide on. MLK was arguably only successful in Revolution thanks to the defiance of Malcom X and the violence that was coupled with the movement. Jesus is just flat out wrong. The amount of violence associated with Jesus is so undeniable that it is ludicrous to think it wasn't violent. If it wasn't for the violent death of Jesus, Christianity would have never taken a foothold.
no, real sheep settle things with violence, real men control sheep
Cowards control sheep because they are afraid that they might get violent and overthrow them.
no, it was by purchasing the land from the natives, the violence came in enforcing the purchase
Please.
Government is represented by people you vote in, be it a professional politician, or the guy next door. Democracy will reflect the people.
THAT old wives tale. Anybody can lie. Even those who are pure become corrupt when surrounded by corruption. It becomes second nature.
revolutions happen every 2-4 years in the US, if you don't vote, then your not part of the revolution.
You need to look up the definition of "revolutionary" when it comes to change to realize the last revolution that US had was when the Federal Reserve took over.
Tell that to the soviet union.
The Soviet Union collapsed because of their own doing. It wasn't because people calmly waited by and voted people out of office. They made mistakes, some of them the same mistakes the US is making today - and thus which led to their collapse.
reply to post by Kram09
The government has used violence against peaceful protests. I have seen them attack innocent passerbys and people involved in protests for no apparent reason. They have used sonic weapons, tear gas, and some I have even seen physically attack protested.
It goes to show that THEY understand that violence works - and it does. You don't see those people continuing to stand around. They leave. The protest is quelled. Another voice - silenced. They make their point while the point of the protesters disappears with the wind.
In the very least, when we use violence against them we get noticed - something they refuse to do when people peacefully march. It is only by getting noticed that others too will notice and others too will follow.
reply posted on 6-3-2010 @ 03:27 PM by LurkerMan
reply to post by Kram09
it shows violence gets its way, whether you complain about it all day or not.
it shows violence gets its way, whether you complain about it all day or not.
reply posted on 6-3-2010 @ 03:35 PM by Mr.Jcury
reply to post by ADVISOR
I too think force should be a last resort, E.G. when they are using force them self’s.
But please tell me, what if you vote but they rig the votes? What if you vote and he is just as corrupt as the last one? And they keep on getting these corrupt candidates that you can vote for?
How do you imagine breaking free from this cycle?
Even with force sometimes it Is very difficult to get rid of the already well established corrupt people in power.
I too think force should be a last resort, E.G. when they are using force them self’s.
But please tell me, what if you vote but they rig the votes? What if you vote and he is just as corrupt as the last one? And they keep on getting these corrupt candidates that you can vote for?
How do you imagine breaking free from this cycle?
Even with force sometimes it Is very difficult to get rid of the already well established corrupt people in power.
reply posted on 6-3-2010 @ 03:38 PM by SaturnFX
reply to post by gwydionblack
Jesus was non violent, even taught violence is not the answer (turn the other cheek). The majority of the crusades were actually against other sects of christianity...this was a powermove. It is only through the peaceful teachings when people adopt christianity. the warfare only extinguished opposing teachings.
MLK was a founding, MalX and the like were actually not a big player in civil rights, it was actually the violence against blacks that was the turning point, the more peaceful demonstrations ended in violence by whites, the more the public swayed in favor of civil rights...therefore violence ultimately had the reverse effect of what happened.
We will simply have to agree to disagree about the voting/revolution stuff. I see it one way, you see it the other...but one question, if you were personally voted into office, would you be corrupted so easily?
I have no opinion on the fed reserve. its too complex for me to fully denounce or cheer for and pinpoint exactly when it went south. I would venture to say leaving the gold standard was more impactful for society due to the boom/bust nature of percieved worth.
Jesus was non violent, even taught violence is not the answer (turn the other cheek). The majority of the crusades were actually against other sects of christianity...this was a powermove. It is only through the peaceful teachings when people adopt christianity. the warfare only extinguished opposing teachings.
MLK was a founding, MalX and the like were actually not a big player in civil rights, it was actually the violence against blacks that was the turning point, the more peaceful demonstrations ended in violence by whites, the more the public swayed in favor of civil rights...therefore violence ultimately had the reverse effect of what happened.
We will simply have to agree to disagree about the voting/revolution stuff. I see it one way, you see it the other...but one question, if you were personally voted into office, would you be corrupted so easily?
I have no opinion on the fed reserve. its too complex for me to fully denounce or cheer for and pinpoint exactly when it went south. I would venture to say leaving the gold standard was more impactful for society due to the boom/bust nature of percieved worth.
reply posted on 6-3-2010 @ 03:48 PM by kyle43
Protests should be non violent. The only time "violence" should be used is in self defense, and I wouldn't consider that violence. I am assuming
this thread was created due to the recent "non-terrorist" attacks that have happened recently. I feel very deeply for anyone who was killed in the
attacks but at the same time I am glad that there still is people that who will die for their ideals. I don't agree with the killing at all, but the
fact is many issues are now being brought directly to TPTB with blood, which is something they can't ignore.
reply to post by SaturnFX
The Fed went "south" as soon as it was conceived
[edit on 6-3-2010 by kyle43]
reply to post by SaturnFX
The Fed went "south" as soon as it was conceived
[edit on 6-3-2010 by kyle43]
reply posted on 6-3-2010 @ 04:03 PM by ADVISOR
reply to post by Mr.Jcury
Well, for one over the years, often I refer to the True Patriot Reading List, as it and other such treads of mine point out, a common answer to that question you have asked.
My stance is obvious and not difficult to discern.
A search will prove that. Personally, as I have doen for years I do vote. As the results turn out, it is the electoral ones that matter, so our "popular" votes do not count...
Tradtition, hope or some thing else, I will continue to vote. At least then I have the right to complain. It is my opinion that if your going to complain about some thing, at least have the common dency to have made the minimum effort of an attempt to try and make a change.
It's the only difference between success and failure.
Trying, as is it not better to have tried and failed and know at least you gave it a shot. Than to not have even tried at all, and wonder what if you had...
Well, for one over the years, often I refer to the True Patriot Reading List, as it and other such treads of mine point out, a common answer to that question you have asked.
My stance is obvious and not difficult to discern.
A search will prove that. Personally, as I have doen for years I do vote. As the results turn out, it is the electoral ones that matter, so our "popular" votes do not count...
Tradtition, hope or some thing else, I will continue to vote. At least then I have the right to complain. It is my opinion that if your going to complain about some thing, at least have the common dency to have made the minimum effort of an attempt to try and make a change.
It's the only difference between success and failure.
Trying, as is it not better to have tried and failed and know at least you gave it a shot. Than to not have even tried at all, and wonder what if you had...
reply posted on 6-3-2010 @ 04:04 PM by Kram09
reply to post by gwydionblack
Yes if you use violence you'll get noticed, but in this day and age you'll get noticed as a domestic terrorist or some maniac.
The media will twist things and many people will eat up whatever they say.
[edit on 6/3/10 by Kram09]
Yes if you use violence you'll get noticed, but in this day and age you'll get noticed as a domestic terrorist or some maniac.
The media will twist things and many people will eat up whatever they say.
[edit on 6/3/10 by Kram09]
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