Ancient Primate Fossil Roils Scientific Community

(March 5) --Touted as "the missing link" between humans and early primates, a 47-million-year-old fossil appears to be an ancestor to lemurs instead, a newly released study says. The debate, however, seems far from over, and it illuminates the often tricky relationship between science and the media.

Last spring, when Norwegian paleontologist Jorn Hurum and his colleagues announced the unveiling of "Ida," an unusually complete prehistoric primate fossil, it was portrayed in newspaper and television reports as a blockbuster discovery nothing short of an "eighth wonder of the world" that would offer a look at one of mankind's earliest evolutionary ancestors.

No small part of that excitement was due to Hurum himself, who had provided media outlets with a teasing press release ahead of the official announcement at New York's American Museum of Natural History that heralded the fossil as "a revolutionary scientific find that will change everything."

Jennifer Graylock, jpistudios.com
Some scientists doubt that this fossil, dubbed Ida, is from an early ancestor of humans, as paleontologist Jorn Hurum contends.
The hype surrounding Darwinius masillae, the scientific name given to Ida, preceded the publication of Hurum's research in a peer-reviewed journal. "Normally, you have the paper first, lots of scrutiny by other scientists and then the media enters the picture," Blythe Williams, a visiting professor of paleontology at Duke University, told AOL News.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8d041efee246.jpg[/atsimg]

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This is good news, I never bought that we evolved from Primates, if that were the case why are they still around today, I know some scientist say it was a mutation, not buying that either.

Originally posted by Aquarius1

This is good news, I never bought that we evolved from Primates, if that were the case why are they still around today, I know some scientist say it was a mutation, not buying that either.

Well I hope you werent trying to appear intelligent or anything because you just ruined it.

You're not buying what the scientists say about evolution unless its a scientist saying that a certain fossil is actually a relative of the lemur instead of primates?

Could you tell me how this selective trust in science works in your brain?

Originally posted by Aquarius1
This is good news, I never bought that we evolved from Primates, if that were the case why are they still around today, I know some scientist say it was a mutation, not buying that either.

You need to think that one through
We evolved also from single celled organisms...and they are still around.

When a tree grows a branch, all the other branches dont suddenly fall off.

If you dont buy the fact that we are primates of a different branch all leading back to a original fork, then what do you believe and why?

reply to post by SaturnFX


Obviously they believe in science but only when it fits their preconceived religious notions.

reply to post by Aquarius1


This in no way proves we didn't evolve from primates. Also, us and modern primates evolved from a common ancestor. Different environmental conditions caused this ancestor to evolve in different ways and as a result some followed an evolutionary path that lead to Man while others followed an evolutionary path that lead to modern apes.

Ida is a controversial fossil, it's not been fully examined, and the fellow who released the statement that is is a direct ancestor, did so as much for the ensuing book deal and film that went with it.
Not that it isn't necessarily an ancestor, but it's not ground breaking.

This is good news, I never bought that we evolved from Primates, if that were the case why are they still around today, I know some scientist say it was a mutation, not buying that either.

You do realize humans are primates, right? We didn't evolve from primates, we are primates.
We share common ancestors with the current primate species around.
For that matter, even if Ida does end up being identified as a proto-primate... it's still a primate, which doesn't disprove we evolved from primates at all.

I'm not sure what you're attempting to say here.

Edit:
There was a bit ofa drum up about this a few months back, and there are several threads in the history about the find:
New Perspectives on History Channel, May 25th, and "Ida" the Lemur-Monkey
'Eighth wonder' Ida is not related to humans, claim scientists
Scientists Unveil Missing Link In Evolution

Got to say, from what I've read, I lean a bit more towards her being a proto lemur at this point.


[edit on 6-3-2010 by RuneSpider]

I suspect the only 'roiling' in the science community was about the ill-informed hyperbole in the Press.

'Ida' isn't considered a 'missing link' in human/primate evolution.

Uniquely for primate fossils this old, Ida's stomach contents and a few aspects of her soft anatomy are preserved. Like all adapiforms, Ida lacked a "toothcomb" at the front of her lower jaw – a structure that living lemurs use for grooming fur. Ida also lacked a "grooming claw" on her second toe, another difference from living lemurs. Otherwise, Ida's overall proportions and anatomy resemble that of a lemur, and the same is true for other adapiform primates.

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Check out the 'Messel Pit' where the fossil is one of thousands recovered. Each fossil adds a little more detail to our understanding of evolution...



This little critter from 50 million odd years ago represents an early example of the furry mammal...cool!

reply to post by SaturnFX


I tend to believe in a creative force opposed to evolution, not in a religious since, it is difficult to wrap your mind around either, just a feeling, who knows if all is random, especially when it seems that everything is chaotic, maybe it's just a roll of the dice, here today and gone tomorrow, a long as most of what we here is theory it doesn't make it true.

Hate to tell you this but:

(1) Lemurs are primates. So it still could be an ancestor because lemurs and the animals that became us branched off at some point in the past.

(2) Despite the illustration of a fish emerging from the water and eventually becoming man...evolution is not linear, rather it resembles forks in the road.

Just because some went down one fork doesn't mean that the ones that didn't died out...they continued on.

We evolved from primates.
Reptillians evolved from dinosaurs.
Now i just need some research and facts to prove it

Originally posted by chrisography
We evolved from primates.
Reptillians evolved from dinosaurs.
Now i just need some research and facts to prove it

What a profound statement, you say that like you mean it...

reply to post by Aquarius1


Well first off this little guy has been posted here before at ATS a couple of times. I'm too lazy to search and post the links.

Second. I still think people over do it's significance.
Either way it does add a little bit more to our knowledge. Be it by intelligent design or evolutionary development.

I still say it's cool.

reply to post by SLAYER69


I know there are other threads on this topic but nothing very recent..