Internet Revolutionaries: A Conspiracy To Hinder Our Civil Liberties?

Push, push back, push, push back. Do you ever wonder, if the fervor of internet revolutionaries are actually a ploy by the government to take away more freedoms, more civil liberties, and install more restrictions?

Are they preying on weak minded individuals, the people who are on the edge anyway? Feeding them just enough bile to make them sick?

To the rational minded individual, acknowledgement that there are indeed problems with our government comes with a serious debate on those issues, and how to best resolve them. Ideologies differ, but in general all sides of the issue debate such things without the need for violence.

But inevitably along comes the Internet Revolutionaries, people who don't see any other way but civil war to fix the many problems that plague this nations government.

The motives are as numerous as there are people...

Some despise the government, no amount of change or reform can dissuade the individual who just does not accept any authority. They would rather watch the world burn, than to see any form of governmental body exist.

Some feel that our government has swayed too far from the founding fathers ideals of what this government was supposed to do. They feel that a revolution is like a governmental reset button, and they see a violent overthrow of the government the only true way to enact that reset of our individual freedoms. Often citing the Declaration of Independence as their catch all excuse, often parroting the sayings of Thomas Jefferson, such as 'Occasionally the tree of Liberty must be watered with the blood of Patriots and Tyrants.'

There are a myriad of others, even ones who have less honorable intentions than the first example.

But are these groups having an unintended consequence? Is this just internet discussion board fodder? A fun and harmless way to pass the time? Discussing issues that are for the most part taboo in normal polite conversation?

But are these discussions actually being fueled by the government in a way that on the surface seems harmless, but in all actuality, causes people who are prone to suggestion to act out in violent ways, thus giving the federal government more excuses to have tighter control?

Yes these individuals may have already had their own problems with the government, but what if these discussions are pushing people over the edge? Is it done on purpose? Or is it just the folly of singular individuals who already are in a weakened mental state, prone to suggestion, possibly on mind altering substances further weakening the individuals resistance to what would otherwise be against their moral compass.


Slight of hand not only works for magicians, it works equally well for governments, take the information in the above clip, now, can you imagine the government applying those same techniques to people who could be considered enemies of the state?

Let us take for example, the 7 basic principals of magic, and try and apply those terms to government influence.

1. Palm: To hold an object in an apparently empty hand.

2. Ditch: To secretly dispose of an unneeded object.

3. Steal: To secretly obtain a needed object.

4. Load: To secretly move a needed object to where it is hidden.

5. Simulation: To give the impression that something that hasn’t happened, has.

6. Misdirection: To lead attention away from a secret move.

7. Switch: To secretly exchange one object for another.

Make a bit more sense now? Seeing how the government can use you as their unwitting pawn? Think they may have used some of these same principals on unwitting conspiracy minded individuals just to push the weak links out into the open?

How do you defend yourself against the powers of suggestion?


To what end? Well, of course the end is justified by the means, what I mean by this is, in order to keep us safe from these homegrown terrorists threatening our way of life, more and more limitations on our freedoms must be done. Even though, it is quite possible that the homegrown terrorist, was created by the government in the first place.

A sort of pre-programmed Manchurian candidate, one that would never know that his idea for revolution actually was seeded by the government itself.

I'm not sure if it's a conspiracy to hinder our civil liberties. The ultimate outcome will have the same result...liberty and freedom trampled underfoot.

The same old subterfuges are used...'Think of the children!' 'Fear the terrorist!' 'We're doing this to INCREASE safety!' The biggest threat appears to be coming from mediacorps insistence that we owe them a living. Our Govts increasingly represent the corporate interest above 'We The People.'

As the mediacorps get increased access to our online lives...that information and the methods of retrieval will be fair game for Governments, ABC agencies etc. Win/Win and lose for us...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/01125eeaa015.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by Kandinsky


Sort of, but I was thinking more along the lines of a mass MK-ULTRA experiment, designed to subtly brainwash an individual or individuals into a violent act, without the government actually having to be involved with the radicalization of that individual.

Take for example, the recent incident at the Pentagon.

John Patrick Bedell,



Seems typical ATS fare right? But take a person like the above who reportedly suffered from bipolar disorder. Now I am not sure whether or not he was on any proscribed Medication for this, but it has been reported that he at least was a user of marijuana. Well, in this state, a person can be prone to suggestion.

For the purposes of this thread, we will consider Mr. Bedell "Palmed" by the government. The government can convincingly deny they have any control over this man, and so, their hand appears to be empty.

They then, plant the seeds of mistrust, or "Load" Mr. Bedell, with information. In this case, it's the "Simulation" of 9/11.

Now that Mr. Bedell is loaded with that seed, it begins to grow, he searches out on the internet for like minded people. Comes to a conspiracy site like ATS, and he feeds off of the others. This gets the ball rolling for what happened the other day.

News in the media and other conspiracy theorists help fuel the fire that was growing in this man till the day came that he decided to take action.



So because of a seed of distrust, in a already weakened mind, A person becomes more radicalized, doing something that most people have no problem with. Susceptible mentalities combined with over-medication, and self medication along with innocent revolutionary thought, can, I believe, combine in a drastic way to create a radicalized brainwashed violent individual.

While most internet revolutionaries are nothing more than angered individuals that will in fact never harm another human being, they can for instance through their postings influence a susceptible individual to violent acts.

As more and more of these individuals post thoughts like Mr. Bedell did online, it offers us a glimpse not only into the mentality of these individuals, but into ourselves, and the unintended influences we all can have on each other.



But it can't be discounted that government influences can play a part. Through mass media sources, websites, and even medication, might also play a part in radicalizing an individual to the point where it doesn't take much for a person to go off the edge and attack.

For the majority of us, especially in the realm of conspiracy theory, speculation, investigation, debate, and conjecture can be beneficial to better understand the world around us, to the weakened human mind, this can be a tool of the government to create what can be called a sleeper agent.

Once this unwitting and unknown sleeper agent takes action, the media, and government take it in stride and start the next wave, the investigation, the insinuation, and then the infractions on our civil liberties through legislations designed to keep the country safe.






[edit on 3/6/2010 by whatukno]

Well written post WhatuKno. You look at how big the "cyberwarfare" budget is and have to wonder exactly what they are doing with all that money and time?
I've often wondered if this isn't their way of finding out who might turn against the government should a general rebellion break out. Yes. they probably know who we are and have us categorized into various risk groups.
Star and flag to bump you. You remind me of Tony Trupiano from Michigan.

reply to post by Asktheanimals

You look at how big the "cyberwarfare" budget is and have to wonder exactly what they are doing with all that money and time?

You have to wonder, not only categorizing posts, but maybe even helping to influence potential terrorists along.

I've often wondered if this isn't their way of finding out who might turn against the government should a general rebellion break out.

It would be so simple wouldn't it? On a site the size of ATS I am not sure it would be that simple, but I would imagine that some posters have already gotten some red flags in certain offices. After that, wouldn't it just be too easy to track that poster down, find out who they are, and even make sure that they gain access to the information that would push them towards the edge.

FBI: Man threatens to fly plane into Houston building



Can you see what is happening now?

Yes. they probably know who we are and have us categorized into various risk groups.

It is quite possible.

You remind me of Tony Trupiano from Michigan.

No but thank you.

And here is the part of the trick where the government is using internet revolutionaries to take away more of your civil liberties.

US searching for 'radicalized' Americans

Feds weigh expansion of Internet monitoring

Take the isolated incidents of unwitting drugged up brainwashed sleeper agents, radicalized by internet revolutionaries, and use that as an excuse to expand government monitoring and surveillance.

Are you starting to see how the trick is preformed? Take an individual, usually someone that has been diagnosed with some mental disorder, pump them full of pharmaceuticals, let them loose on the world wide web, give them nudges towards perfectly legitimate and ultimately harmless internet revolutionaries, this person in a state of mind that is prone to suggestion takes in an overload of information, add some mass media on top of it, to push them over the edge, let the event occur, publicize that event as an excuse to expand the need for more security and then take away civil liberties.

It’s actually deeper and more fundamental than you suspect though you are looking at it on the surface level at how it manifests.

To maintain dominance through a system of overt controls and laws you have to have a need for those overt controls and laws that people, the average person sees a benefit in.

This is why scarcity is used in a world where there really is no scarcity of resources. The stores are full, so are the granaries and oil tanks.

There is plenty of land, plenty of material as well. No one technically should be without a home, food, clothing or work. Even the idle rich like to work just as a way to alleviate boredom.

But worldwide we do employ a system where all resources are centralized in a few hands that then have the position and leverage of how to dole them out and provide them to people.

They do conspire in this process to not only get people to perform for an allotment of those resources but conspire to limit the number of positions and ways that you can perform for them to first create a competition just for the chance to perform for a share of the resources.

They do conspire to make sure that a certain number of people will get no real chance to perform for some of the resources, and will not get an allotment of the resources.

These become the wolves they purposefully create to mix with the sheep, which then have little choice, but to threaten and take from the sheep.

This causes the sheep to want and need security to either alleviate their fear because of the presence of wolves or to genuinely protect them from wolves at the door.

The truth is we have the resources to prevent scavenging by making sure no one has to scavenge in violent or threatening ways. If everyone had a fair share of abundant resources there would be no need to hit anyone else over the head for things you already have an abundance of yourself and so does everyone else, and no need to go to war for them.

Ironically few people understand that the people who run the system are in fact the greatest danger and the wolves because they do contrive and conspire to run it in such a way that creates scarcity and deprivation that they know will create desperation and breed scavengers and that those who have something will want to be protected from those who wish to take it from them.

We keep looking at the symptoms instead of the real disease; we keep looking for band aides instead of cures.

Governments have been manipulating fears in the citizenry that look to it for protection since the first government sprang up. That’s what governments do, they conspire to create the situations that people then look to them for security and solutions and in that process accept the government’s dominance and laws ostensibly designed to protect and alleviate but really designed just to perpetuate the government’s own dominance, viability and perpetuity.

Governments are made secure by making sure the people they rule over and impose their will on aren’t.

It’s that simple.


[edit on 6/3/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

I know that police enforcement agencies run large departments combating criminal behaviour on the Internet.

For example, I don't consider that my freedom is hindered in any way by pedaphile activity being banned from the Internet.

Great freedoms demand great responsibility...
...and freedom should never be the cover for criminal license.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


But Proto, there is only so much in the PIE. /s

I find you are spot on with the scarcity ploy they play.

OP, so are you saying that what I and others are saying on the net is feeding into exactly what TPTB want.

Are you not just buying into their agenda by saying this to be true.

What do you want? Thought police?

I have the right to say or do anything I want, at least we use to in the beginning of this great country.

Now I have to worry about thought crimes like Hate legislation. I have to worry about not being PC enough. I have to worry that I might set off some wacko by the anger I incite by my very words I write here on the net.

I find many are falling exactly for what they want, and it is not me.

Give me liberty or give me death.

Ideals are what makes men great. What makes them slaves is forgetting those ideals.

I would rather die than to live on my knees and the more they try to control people the more they will create exactly what is happening.

Backlash.

Leave people alone to their own lives. That is what sovereign means. They are sovereign to reach whatever ideal they want to attain. If they want to live in the 15th century so be it.

Or do we force the people like the Amish to move into the 21st century?

Leave me the frell alone.

I am generalizing here whatukno, not what you have posited here or talking against your OP. I am just laying out what I feel.

To quote a member here-

tired of control freaks

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


That is the best explanation of the situation I have ever heard. I dare any of the anti-ATS plants that automatically debunk everything that is posted here to tear down anything in your post. It's too obvious that the government is just a parasite and we need to shrug it off.

reply to post by whatukno


Control and human engineering is one thing "they" are very adept at.
In some building on every large university campus there are think tanks, staffed by academics, paid for by taxpayer monies, dedicated to one thing.
To make the illusion seem real.

The slight of hand reference was perfect.

S&F

Originally posted by warpcrafter
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

That is the best explanation of the situation I have ever heard. I dare any of the anti-ATS plants that automatically debunk everything that is posted here to tear down anything in your post. It's too obvious that the government is just a parasite and we need to shrug it off.

Thanks my friend, what I have described and illustrated is what governments have in fact been doing since governments first sprang into existence.

They exist to protect the dominance of the chief hoarders who conspire to monopolize and hoard resources for dominance and power.

They create artificial scarcity in how they purposefully contrive to distribute them inadequately and unevenly with the intention of creating chaos.

Those who can’t get a chance to perform in some way for a portion of the resources then having to rob or terrorize to get some from those who do have some creates the chaos that provides for the pretext for people to be governed.

This convinces the people that the government is there to protect them when in fact its there to protect the people who are hoarding and dominating who purposefully create a scarcity that leads to a level of ferocious competition that creates the chaos that government then seeks to regulate through laws and control instead of looking at real ways to end the scarcity.

Governments in fact always have to keep their populations frightened so that the people themselves demand the government regulate them and control them.

Governments in conjunction with the dominant hoarders do conspire to create situations and circumstances that cause chaos and fear amongst the population in such ways that people look to and demand government protection.

It really is no different than a street level Mafia extortion racket. Pay us a cut, abide by our rules and we will see that the criminal element doesn’t victimize you. They make this pitch while displaying themselves through violence and vandalism how vulnerable a person is and that they do need protection.

The world is run on an order out of chaos principle with the people who are tasked with ordering it being the same people who create the chaos.

It’s a self defeating circle that sustains and supports itself but does not serve humanity or the people well.

It never has, and it never will. People will always remain insecure as long as the scarcity paradigm is in place and the more laws a government has to create order and regulate the more corrupt it is and intent on absolute domination through to order out of artificially created chaos doctrine.

People fall victim to the surface dramas of it, and never really stop to contemplate the root cause of it. Thus up to now the circle remains unbroken.

reply to post by whatukno


Over all I can see where you're coming from Wuk.

I can both agree and disagree to some extents on the topic over all.

I see the creation of the Internet as a means to collect the secret evidence, which will later convict us, based upon the things we try to look up.

Even if it is something like ATS where we are looking for a way to stop corruption.

The Old Shell Game


In other words, it is all a shell game, an offer of free learning, but the cost is much more.

It is nothing more than a means to compromise society and illegal search and seizure.

Once someone within D.A.R.P.A. understood the concept of tracking information, it became a means to bypass the Constitutional protection we so love.

So, in essence, it became a Military coup, to crush freedom, at any cost.

Even if it meant giving the ARPANET to corporations they could guarantee those corporations would assist later, through laws which they knew were non-existent.

This would leave the necessity of having False-Flag Operation's to make us speak, speculate, discover, talk over, plan how to stop, and be conspiracy theorist's.

Across the West, people are turning against politics as usual. Over time our politics went from being solution-oriented to being justification-oriented.

Justification politics work backward. Instead of working toward a goal, we set up symbols like freedom, equality and diversity. We then do whatever we want to, and claim that we're working toward those abstract and emotional symbols. The result is corruption, because instead of intending to fix problems, we pick something that looks good and then charge it to the account of freedom, equality and diversity.

Underconfident or corrupt individuals use these symbols as much as government agencies do. If anyone proposes an inconvenient idea, they claim it violates one of those sacred goals. It's like an insane cult religion or the kind of dogma we saw in the Soviet Union. We must uphold the dogma, but it doesn't work, and the only solution we accept is to keep trying these failed solutions.

Unlike truly goal-oriented politics, symbolic goals are never reached. This makes us to deconstruct politics into issues, which we can fight over instead of fixing the problem of which the issue is the symptom. However, issues make work for politicians, bureaucrats, media workers and others who benefit from controversy -- and like corrupt doctors, they get paid to operate, not to make people well.

Thank you all for the replies, I will try and answer each of you individually...

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Careful Proto, someone might mistake you for a Kenyan born socialist.

In reality, you are correct, there are more than enough resources, land, etc to go around for all, but greed and the need for control has been a part of the human psyche for a long time and over the course of our history as a species, there have always been those who want complete control.

reply to post by troubleshooter

For example, I don't consider that my freedom is hindered in any way by pedaphile activity being banned from the Internet.

That's an extreme end of the scale, but yes. Your freedom isn't hindered in any way by pedophile activity being illegal on the Internet. Should it stop there? Or should other activities be controlled and banned? And who is to say what is a subject on the Internet that can or cannot be discussed?

reply to post by endisnighe

OP, so are you saying that what I and others are saying on the net is feeding into exactly what TPTB want.

I am saying that, I am also saying that what you and others discuss on the internet may have an impact on the actions of others. If you have someone that is highly prone to suggestion, and feed that mind a lot of information on revolution, and they go out and start shooting up a place, doesn't that feed into exactly what they want to happen anyway?

Are you not just buying into their agenda by saying this to be true.

Not exactly, what I am saying is that it's a trick by TPTB to have exactly what happened, happen.

What do you want? Thought police?

Absolutely not, I don't even contend that these discussions should be stopped, I am just saying that it works for TPTB to have you do their dirty work for them.

Instead of taking some poor sap, drugging him up, and brainwashing him to be a sleeper agent or Manchurian candidate, they instead diagnose him with some mental disorder, convince him that pharmaceutical therapy is the answer, drug him up, then in the comfort, safety and privacy of his own home, you and others unintentionally radicalize this person.

A person with full control over their own mind, can engage you and others in these discussions without being manipulated, but if someone is under the influence of medication that impairs their judgement, they may take what you and others have said and decide that they should go out and act.

Then once that the unwitting sleeper agent acts against the government, his online conversations and posts are plastered all over the news, then the government swoops in to bring people "safety" at the cost of your liberty.

I have the right to say or do anything I want, at least we use to in the beginning of this great country.

And you still do, and you still should. All I am saying, is that they are using your freedom of speech against you.

reply to post by whaaa

In some building on every large university campus there are think tanks, staffed by academics, paid for by taxpayer monies, dedicated to one thing.
To make the illusion seem real.

Do you think they stopped with the mind control experiments when they were found out? Or do you think they just went mainstream with the experiment, and what is happening now is a wide scale test?

After all, millions of people are under the influence of mind altering medications, and those same people are now getting programming not only through msm sources, but alternative sources like ATS. If you take a person that is prone to suggestion, and feed him enough information to make them dangerous, then they act on this information, do you see how their little trick worked?

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


Yes it has, but in an insidious way, by making the people do it to themselves, they then can keep their hands clean, all the while they have this information that we all post to use against us in a court of law, and in the court of public opinion.

reply to post by concernedcitizan

Across the West, people are turning against politics as usual. Over time our politics went from being solution-oriented to being justification-oriented.

Exactly, and now, how do we reverse the trend?

[edit on 3/6/2010 by whatukno]

reply to post by whatukno


I do not even know where to go with this.

On one hand I see your point about our discussions, but on the other hand I see that freedom of expression requires me to discuss anything and everything.

Okay, there are gullible, drugged, easily manipulated people out there.

What am I and everyone supposed to do?

I will carry on as I always have. I will be free and speak my mind. Yes, there is power in words, I admit that. But where do we stop? Do we take one step over that line of control to give ourselves a little more security?

I still feel ANY control parameter is too much. The way this country soared to the heights it has, is because it has followed those tenets.

Yes, we have stumbled, but we have not fallen.

Do we decide to try another path or do we return to what was? Complete freedom within a certain and limited boundary. Or do we decide that a vast government will have our best interest at heart?

We will NEVER be completely safe from everything, EVER.

Put it this way, why do we still feel that the tenet of innocent before proven guilty? It is because as a nation we saw that putting one innocent man behind bars is worse than releasing 10 guilty.

Now, we are hounded in every aspect of our lives to follow the rules and have decided our ways should be the ways of the world. We also now spy on the innocent to catch the guilty. We enforce draconian laws to not just keep us safe but to control us.

Man was never meant to be bridled as we have done. We are meant to be free and to decide for ourselves our own destiny.

Freedom!

Excellent work whatukno, you bring out the best and worst in me.

reply to post by endisnighe


This thread isn't really about what you are supposed to do, it's more of, hey this could be happening, be aware.

Is there a solution? I am not sure. I know that limiting freedom of speech would be wrong.



I think it has to do more along the lines of self governance than what you can and cannot say. If you feel that it's right for you to tell people to go out and start killing Americans, then, I am not sure that there is anything I can really say. I can disagree with you, and say I don't think that is the solution. But in reality I don't have the right to tell you to not say it.

All I am saying, is that you might be unwittingly programming the next mentally unstable person to actually go and do that. Which is exactly what some might want as an excuse to take away your right to freedom of speech, or to start cataloging posts like yours and others and track your activities online.

Have you noticed that each time this sort of thing occurs, they nearly instantly have the person's online activities splattered all over the news? The guy who flew a plane into the IRS building had a manifesto, the Pentagon Shooter was interested in 9/11 conspiracy theories. We know this because somehow they are almost instantly aware of these people's online activities. Doesn't that seem a little odd?

[edit on 3/7/2010 by whatukno]

reply to post by whatukno


Okay, I got about half way through that and could not stop laughing.

I am not even going to go there. Anyway good breakdown and maybe I will curb my enthusiasm.

Let it be known that the endisnighe will not go and do something stupid like flying into an office building or get himself shot at the Pentagon.

Alright, happy internet security bots?

Better Insurgency through Chemistry.

Next I want to focus on the pharmaceutical aspect of these cases. As I am sure that many are aware, a lot of people in this country are diagnosed with mental illnesses like Bipolar Disorder, Depression, Schizophrenia etc. and are proscribed mind altering medications.

Can these medications actually make someone more prone to brainwashing? Even prone to unintentional suggestion of others online? And thus causing them to actually be more likely to act in a violent manner thinking they are taking down the government?

I am asking because it's not an area I am too familiar with. All I know is, our society seems to be way over medicated. And that bothers me. Something about that just screams mind control for the masses. Now when someone is under the influence of a powerful mind altering substance, doesn't it make sense that they might not actually be thinking clear enough to discern for themselves right from wrong?